India HAL Tejas Program

[Gessler]

View attachment 74017

View attachment 74018

View attachment 74019

Some more pages from the brochure:

 

[Nilgiri]

Some more pages from the brochure:

View attachment 74032

View attachment 74033

View attachment 74034

Hindsight is 20/20, but it would have been better if we went for this size from get go and secure full production rights for the Mirage 2000 powerplant (M53) along with however many further orders of Mirage 2000 themselves.

 

[Nilgiri]

LCA Tejas Mk1A milestone: Private player delivers rear fuselage for fighter jet to HAL

In a testament to increased role of private sector in defence manufacturing, Alpha Tocol Engineering Services delivered first rear fuselage for Light Combat Aircraft Tejas Mk1A

www.theweek.in

 

[Rajendra Chola]

I think that India needs a second company capable of assembling fighters. The monopoly enjoyed by HAL has not produced good results. To get another company started in this discipline requires an input of funds. Would it not make sense for GOI to invest in a new entity now rather than later? It could cut its teeth on assembling some Mk1A under the guidance of HAL. Who knows, with Indian fighter projects suffering massive delays, it might be in a position to bid for Tejas Mk2 assembly by the time a decision is required on the company to assemble Tejas Mk2.

Blundering on with a sole assembler of Indian fighters should come to an end, shouldn't it? It has not worked well with Tejas. Without change, similar results can be expected with Tejas Mk2, TEDBF and AMCA.

Yes, India needs a second aerospace company. My main argument was private company line for Tejas Mk1A is too late in the game for discussion. A new company needs to be incorporated now, aiming for co production of Htt40, HJT36 and Tejas Mk2. And it’s important it’s “private” with govt participation reduced to HAL having minority stake in that company for a limited time.

Another issue is, aerospace engineers are majorly with two institutions in India. ADA/HAL and ISRO. This new company will start hiring aggressively from the existing pool to create new pool. Permission needs to be given to this company to hire foreign talents or atleast OCI holders to attain the goal with shortened time.

 

[Spitfire9]

Yes, India needs a second aerospace company. My main argument was private company line for Tejas Mk1A is too late in the game for discussion. A new company needs to be incorporated now, aiming for co production of Htt40, HJT36 and Tejas Mk2. And it’s important it’s “private” with govt participation reduced to HAL having minority stake in that company for a limited time.

Another issue is, aerospace engineers are majorly with two institutions in India. ADA/HAL and ISRO. This new company will start hiring aggressively from the existing pool to create new pool. Permission needs to be given to this company to hire foreign talents or atleast OCI holders to attain the goal with shortened time.

What is the need for a new company? GOI can take a strategic decision to get an existing aerospace company competent in fighter assembly through TOT and hand holding from HAL for a time.

 

[Nilgiri]

Great footage captured by Praneeth Franklin, ELTA Scorpius SPJ spotted.

 

[Knowledgeseeker]

LCA Tejas Mk1A milestone: Private player delivers rear fuselage for fighter jet to HAL

In a testament to increased role of private sector in defence manufacturing, Alpha Tocol Engineering Services delivered first rear fuselage for Light Combat Aircraft Tejas Mk1A

www.theweek.in

Why not put the MK1a on pause, when the MK-2 variant is not far away for mass production?

 

[Nilgiri]

Why not put the MK1a on pause, when the MK-2 variant is not far away for mass production?

The squadron deficit is just too dire....and there is no telling how mk2 ramp will exactly be (it will use GE 414 etc).

 

[Zapper]

Why not put the MK1a on pause, when the MK-2 variant is not far away for mass production?

it will use GE 414 etc

Unsure about the credibility but there were recent reports by a few accounts that GE414 deal is kinda in a pickle since US clearly knows the future of Indian fighter jet programs (Tejas Mk-II, TEDBF & AMCA) is reliant on it

They might possibly put forth several pre-conditions like procurement of non-critical platforms like Stryker, Javelins, maybe overpriced F-35s, giving up of Russian systems like S-400 to name a few

We'd also have to get US approval for any foreign sales

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/b...ts-down-swedens-gripen-jet-deal-with-colombia

 

[Zapper]

GE F414 on a test stand in India, at the HAL Tarmac for ADA. In the background, the Mobile Engine Test Facility for the LCA is visible

View attachment 74077

 

[Zapper]

LCA Mk-2

View attachment 74078


View attachment 74079

View attachment 74080

View attachment 74081

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1897534395827036582

 

[Zapper]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1899072440438829497

 

[Rajendra Chola]

Why not put the MK1a on pause, when the MK-2 variant is not far away for mass production?

Mk1 and Mk1A are like to like replacements for the Mig21 interceptor which IAF had like 400 in their numbers. 220 Mk1 is the bare minimum they could procure to replace that capability. Only 30 Mig21 or so aircraft remains with IAF and HAL has delivered like 32 fighters and 6 trainers.

Mk2 are planned to be replacements for 120 Jaguars, 50 M2000 and 60 Mig29s.

Both are important in arresting decreasing squadron numbers & at the same time reducing the number of types IAF is operating to streamline logistics.

IAF plans are now:

220 Tejas Mk1/1A,
120 Tejas Mk2 (initial order-final ones if IAF is satisfied expected to be 200+)
270 Su30
36 + 114 (Rafales mostly)
And 120 AMCA.

Even all this Squadron strength is expected to touch 42. Only God knows when. By the time AMCA comes in, the first squadrons of Su30 which we got in 1996–97 needs to get start retiring.

 

[Rajendra Chola]

What is the need for a new company? GOI can take a strategic decision to get an existing aerospace company competent in fighter assembly through TOT and hand holding from HAL for a time.

There are no existing second aerospace company competent in fighter assembly through ToT. The news have come in for AMCA JV. HAL to have 50% share and 4 private companies to have 12.5% each in this new company. They will work on AMCA manufacturing & assembly.

 

[Knowledgeseeker]

Mk1 and Mk1A are like to like replacements for the Mig21 interceptor which IAF had like 400 in their numbers. 220 Mk1 is the bare minimum they could procure to replace that capability. Only 30 Mig21 or so aircraft remains with IAF and HAL has delivered like 32 fighters and 6 trainers.

Mk2 are planned to be replacements for 120 Jaguars, 50 M2000 and 60 Mig29s.

Both are important in arresting decreasing squadron numbers & at the same time reducing the number of types IAF is operating to streamline logistics.

IAF plans are now:

220 Tejas Mk1/1A,
120 Tejas Mk2 (initial order-final ones if IAF is satisfied expected to be 200+)
270 Su30
36 + 114 (Rafales mostly)
And 120 AMCA.

Even all this Squadron strength is expected to touch 42. Only God knows when. By the time AMCA comes in, the first squadrons of Su30 which we got in 1996–97 needs to get start retiring.

I would not be surprised if the first order of 83 MK1A would be delivered, and the rest of the orders going for the MK-2. The MK-2 is just around the corner, and the MK-1 is not cheap. We are talking about a price tag close to 80 million per unit. I understand the urgent replacement issue for many of the aging fighter jets in the air force, and the MK-2 would probably not be delivered until 2028-2029.

 

[Zapper]

114 (Rafales mostly)

This is unlikely to happen. At best, it'd be a couple of more squadrons of Rafales for IAF along with 36 Rafale-Ms' for IN

We are talking about a price tag close to 80 million per unit

If you obtained this price from the recent report of 97 Mk-1As' costing $7.8B, that isn't the unit cost since it potentially includes long term maintenance and spares contracts, set up of required facilities, weapons etc

It costed IAF around $40-45m per jet for Mk-1 and I assume the Mk-1As' should cost an additional ~$10m

https://asiatimes.com/2024/04/indias-tejas-vs-pakistans-jf-17-in-low-cost-fighter-showdown/#

 

[Knowledgeseeker]

If you obtained this price from the recent report of 97 Mk-1As' costing $7.8B, that isn't the unit cost since it potentially includes long term maintenance and spares contracts, set up of required facilities, weapons etc

It costed IAF around $40-45m per jet for Mk-1 and I assume the Mk-1As' should cost an additional ~$10m

https://asiatimes.com/2024/04/indias-tejas-vs-pakistans-jf-17-in-low-cost-fighter-showdown/#

Yes, I got the price from the report you mentioned, and many use the pricetag mentioned as the unit price. Do we have any cost estimations for the MK-2 variant, maybe around 65-75 million?

 

[Zapper]

Yes, I got the price from the report you mentioned, and many use the pricetag mentioned as the unit price. Do we have any cost estimations for the MK-2 variant, maybe around 65-75 million?

Since the prototypes are under production, everything you see out there is really just the overall project cost for Mk-2.

Mk-1 & Mk-1A both had reports stating they'd be offered ~$40-45m in the export market

https://www.cnbctv18.com/videos/bus...-months-from-signing-contract-hal-8036141.htm

https://www.business-standard.com/a...rk-1a-seeks-export-market-121011800019_1.html

https://theprint.in/defence/india-l...-crore-per-aircraft-hal-chairman-says/598642/

Majority of the sub-systems have already been indigenized in Mk-1A which'll trickle down to Mk-2 bringing down the costs even further but we'd have to see how US will squeeze us for the engine. Given the numbers, I assume Mk-2 should cost in the low to mid $60m

 

[Zapper]

Astra BVRAAM test fired from Tejas Mk-1