Hellenic Patriots Are Moving to Saudi Arabia

Foulgrim

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A war between Turkey and Greece at the moment is as likely as Turkey joining the EU next week. Don't let internet rambos cloud your judgment.
Turkey never wanted to join the EU, it just flirted with them so that it would be given the same privileges as the rest of the EU. The conflict between Greece and Turkey is not a scenario fantasy of certain nationalist circles but a possibility that may exist in the near future. Turkey wants to make Greece a geopolitical "satellite" because it is a revisionist country in the region with aspirations and a strong foreign policy. Turkey is trying to become a major geopolitical "player" in the region of North Africa, Central and West Asia, the Middle East and Southeastern Europe. Turkey tries to place all the countries belonging to this geographical area under its "protection" with transnational agreements aimed at establishing Turkish economic interests. If Greece does not cooperate with Turkey's geopolitical aspirations, sooner or later there will be such diplomatic opposition that war will come.
 

Foulgrim

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Those are US weapons with Turkey having literally no power over them. In fact, those nuclear bombs are turning Turkey into a primary target for the enemies of America in the unlikely event of a nuclear holocaust. Take 'em if you want 'em.
These weapons that Turkey has, even if they are owned by the United States, would make any country think before it dares to attack. So these weapons act as a deterrent to any possible threat. Iran and Russia have strategic and economic ties with Turkey, they would never attack, let's be honest.
 

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Turkey never wanted to join the EU, it just flirted with them so that it would be given the same privileges as the rest of the EU. The conflict between Greece and Turkey is not a scenario fantasy of certain nationalist circles but a possibility that may exist in the near future. Turkey wants to make Greece a geopolitical "satellite" because it is a revisionist country in the region with aspirations and a strong foreign policy. Turkey is trying to become a major geopolitical "player" in the region of North Africa, Central and West Asia, the Middle East and Southeastern Europe. Turkey tries to place all the countries belonging to this geographical area under its "protection" with transnational agreements aimed at establishing Turkish economic interests. If Greece does not cooperate with Turkey's geopolitical aspirations, sooner or later there will be such diplomatic opposition that war will come.
What you have written can be said about every single country in our neck of the woods. Greece is no exception from this rule. Don't sell your country short. Whatever Turkey's possible advantages over the Greek military are, Greece makes up perfectly with her membership in the EU and NATO in addition to her powerful ability of networking and lobbying in Western capitals.

You're not an innocent little girl who's now defenseless just because you've lend some fancy missiles to the Saudis - voluntarily.

Greece will do just fine, no worries.
 

Foulgrim

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What you have written can be said about every single country in our neck of the woods. Greece is no exception from this rule. Don't sell your country short. Whatever Turkey's possible advantages over the Greek military are, Greece makes up perfectly with her membership in the EU and NATO in addition to her powerful ability of networking and lobbying in Western capitals.

You're not an innocent little girl who's now defenseless just because you've lend some fancy missiles to the Saudis - voluntarily.

Greece will do just fine, no worries.
These "do not worry all is well" were said by some others here in Greece before the financial crisis and the International Monetary Fund! Greece's anti-aircraft and anti-ballistic protection has huge gaps, especially in the Central & Southeastern Aegean. Leaving 1 of the 6 arrays for the Middle East is at least unacceptable! Greece has MIM-104D GEM, MIM-104B SOJC & MIM-104A missiles in the 6 arrays. We are talking about an impact range of up to 160 km, speed up to 3+ Mach and a maximum impact height of 24 km. For example, Turkey's UCAVs are theoretically unlucky as they fly 12 kilometers, but Armenia's S-300PS, which is supposed to fire at enemy air from a height of 27 kilometers, proved to Nagorno-Karabakh that theory differs from practice. These are the "holes" of the Greek air defense:
greeksamnetworka.jpg

Do you see from the picture that there is a huge problem?
 

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Air defense is something that is required to exist in every country to protect its citizens, its territorial integrity and its resources. A country like Greece is required to have anti-aircraft & anti-ballistic protection because it is the most southeastern part of Europe. Greece has been at war many times in the past with neighboring countries. Turkey and secondarily Albania are creating a geopolitical pressure against Greece with their demands. The least that Greece has to do is to be adequately shielded.
Just saying you got more safer borders than us. We are encircled with arabs that has ballistic missile technology. Greek forces in saudi arabia will be in danger Patriots still can't shotdown Iranian made UAVs and cheap missiles any force who went to saudi arabia has faced losses It isn't safe for greeks to be there.
 
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Foulgrim

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Just saying you got more safer borders than us. We are encircled with arabs that has ballistic missile technology. Greek forces in saudi arabia will be in danger Patriots still can't shotdown Iranian made UAVs and cheap missiles any force who went to saudi arabia has faced losses It isn't safe for greeks to be there.
The only neighboring country from which Turkey can be threatened is Iran. But Iran with Turkey has friendly and economic relations. Iran's military might is another big issue. The MIM-104 Patriot battery sent by Greece can really be in danger and this is a really serious issue. Anyway, all 6 arrays had to be in Greece and defend the Greek territory. These weapons are defensive while Greece and Iran have no diplomatic or military confrontation. The reason why the Greek military mission went to Saudi Arabia is purely for reasons related to NATO aggression and the intention of the Euro-Atlantic Alliance to control trade routes in the Strait of Hormuz. But Greece as a country should not have set up a defense weapon bought with taxpayers' money for foreign interests. The job of the MIM-104 Patriots is to protect Greek territory and only for that.
 

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The only neighboring country from which Turkey can be threatened is Iran. But Iran with Turkey has friendly and economic relations. Iran's military might is another big issue. The MIM-104 Patriot battery sent by Greece can really be in danger and this is a really serious issue. Anyway, all 6 arrays had to be in Greece and defend the Greek territory. These weapons are defensive while Greece and Iran have no diplomatic or military confrontation. The reason why the Greek military mission went to Saudi Arabia is purely for reasons related to NATO aggression and the intention of the Euro-Atlantic Alliance to control trade routes in the Strait of Hormuz. But Greece as a country should not have set up a defense weapon bought with taxpayers' money for foreign interests. The job of the MIM-104 Patriots is to protect Greek territory and only for that.
Iran and Turkey ain't friends We got targeted by their proxies lots of times
 

Foulgrim

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Iran and Turkey ain't friends We got targeted by their proxies lots of times
In recent decades you have very close economic and trade ties. Turkey is an ally of Iran as long as one state does not interfere in the interests of the other. Turkey has much more issues to resolve with the Republic of Cyprus, Greece and the USA than with Iran! Although Turkey is an ally of NATO with Greece and the United States. Iran's ballistic missiles target pro-US states in the Middle East along with their US military bases, not Turkey!
 

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In recent decades you have very close economic and trade ties. Turkey is an ally of Iran as long as one state does not interfere in the interests of the other. Turkey has much more issues to resolve with the Republic of Cyprus, Greece and the USA than with Iran! Although Turkey is an ally of NATO with Greece and the United States. Iran's ballistic missiles target pro-US states in the Middle East along with their US military bases, not Turkey!
You don't understand what I said? Iranian militias targeted us many times Iran does not attack by itself its uses shia militias
 

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Turkey wants to make Greece a geopolitical "satellite" because it is a revisionist country in the region with aspirations and a strong foreign policy.
Even Germany whom saved you from Bankruptcy couldn't turn you into a satellite state. How is Turkey going to that, by feeding you Baklava?

Stop watching Ioannis Theodoratos. :rolleyes:
 

Foulgrim

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Even Germany whom saved you from Bankruptcy couldn't turn you into a satellite state. How is Turkey going to that, by feeding you Baklava?

Stop watching Ioannis Theodoratos. :rolleyes:
All the previous years, especially those of the economic crisis, Germany has put its hand deep in the Greek economy by setting the conditions where Greece will pay its debt. All the Greek governments but also the Greek bankers had very close relations with the Germans. I remind you of the Siemens scandal but also the financing of most Greek parliamentary parties by company executives. Turkey does not need to feed you baklava my friend. The timeless threat with Casus Belli is proof.
 

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All the previous years, especially those of the economic crisis, Germany has put its hand deep in the Greek economy by setting the conditions where Greece will pay its debt. All the Greek governments but also the Greek bankers had very close relations with the Germans. I remind you of the Siemens scandal but also the financing of most Greek parliamentary parties by company executives. Turkey does not need to feed you baklava my friend. The timeless threat with Casus Belli is proof.
casus belli was a chad move
 

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All the previous years, especially those of the economic crisis, Germany has put its hand deep in the Greek economy by setting the conditions where Greece will pay its debt. All the Greek governments but also the Greek bankers had very close relations with the Germans. I remind you of the Siemens scandal but also the financing of most Greek parliamentary parties by company executives. Turkey does not need to feed you baklava my friend. The timeless threat with Casus Belli is proof.
Casus Belli is set so that, Greeks won't be able to starve us out by cutting our %80 of our shipping route.
 

Foulgrim

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Casus Belli is set so that, Greeks won't be able to starve us out by cutting our %80 of our shipping route.
What Turkey is right or wrong with casus belli is another discussion, the issue is that Turkey has an aggressive rhetoric in its foreign policy. All this is of course irrelevant to the topic of discussion. Greece can not give its own defense weapons systems to third countries when it leaves "holes" in its air defense! This is extremely criminal.
 

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What Turkey is right or wrong with casus belli is another discussion, the issue is that Turkey has an aggressive rhetoric in its foreign policy. All this is of course irrelevant to the topic of discussion. Greece can not give its own defense weapons systems to third countries when it leaves "holes" in its air defense! This is extremely criminal.
Sometimes you gotta defend your interests in an agressive way, espacially if your neighbor insists on a higly unfair use of the sea surface while practically choking your shipping route.
I wish nothing more than a peaceful coexistance but Greek claims are unfair and highly unrealistic, no country in this world would accept international law when it was going to put it in a huge disadvantge.

But let the maps speak:

Current

1631823696542.png



Greek claim

1631823735555.png


I mean c'mon, would you accept it if the roles were reversed?
 

Foulgrim

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Sometimes you gotta defend your interests in an agressive way, espacially if your neighbor insists on a higly unfair use of the sea surface while practically choking your shipping route.
I wish nothing more than a peaceful coexistance but Greek claims are unfair and highly unrealistic, no country in this world would accept international law when it was going to put it in a huge disadvantge.

But let the maps speak:

Current

View attachment 31303



Greek claim

View attachment 31304


I mean c'mon, would you accept it if the roles were reversed?
The issue of discussion with the territorial waters of each state is a completely different issue from what can be discussed here. The topic of discussion is the MIM-104 Patriot array that left Greece for Saudi Arabia in order to protect it from Iran. And I ask something very simple! Since when has Greece had aggressive aspirations against Iran?
 
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I hope our neighbour will send more Patriots for Saudis :) On the other hand it is sure that Hellenic air defence is now out of date and insufficient when you take into account rising smart ammo, new tactics (swarm/saturation attacks) and EW threads. They should reorganize their air defence within the scope of network centric warfare.
 
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