How to counter the Chinese air denial missile shield.

[RogerRanger]

From a recent post I made about how the US and Western nations are failing to counter what the Chinese are doing, it got me thinking what the options could be for countering the Chinese counter measures against the US carrier groups.

So the main weapon the Chinese have is thousands of land based and navy base missiles that will saturate the waters around China if anyone tries to push them around like the US did with their carriers and deny anyone access to their sea's. So given this is the primary weapon how could the US, other Asian nations counter this. This pushes the US carriers and surface fleets away from the Chinese coast, meaning Chinese can do what it likes within that area, be it invade Taiwan or block trade or build naval bases on islands.

I have a few different thoughts. Obvious one is using submarines to be less detectable. Then the question is what sort of submarines. SSN's are too expensive, large and not designed to operate in coast waters so they are out. Small/midget submarines are cheap and the least detectable, but they lack range and payload. So I think a 3rd tier SSK. Around 1,500 tons, with a couple weeks range and a dozen or so torpedo's. Similar to the Norwegian or Dutch submarines or the Scorpene class from Chile. You build 40 of them, cheaply and you base them around the first island chain at different points. Then you send out 10 at a time in hunting packs so they can support each other and engage Chinese shipping and submarines. They are much simpler, cheaper and easier to replace than the SSN's. They can also mine the area too. So that's the sub surface aspect.

The surface aspect would appear to be totally off the table. However I feel there are a number of combined options which with the submarine aspect would counter what the Chinese have done. The first is anti-surface warfare light frigates or corvettes. Using a squadrons of 3-4 ships, moving at 40 plus knots and interchanging their positions and zig-zaging, throwing off counter measures to the missiles and being unconventional. This would require something which hasn't been seen since the 1800's, squadron maneuver tactics. At high speed and high levels of coordination between the ships involved, to counter the Chinese attacks and attack shipping, not with conventional missiles, but unconventional attacks. Like fire missiles to set ships on fire, noise missiles which stick to a ship and cause a 200 decibel sound/music to continue to play and make it so the ship can't function and lastly a shrapnel shot missile/shell which explodes and takes out sensors within the super-structure of the ship. Again designed to make it so the ship can't function, not to kill anyone.

Lastly there is the 4GW aspect, so things like a torpedo dhow. So a dhow with one torpedo to get close and fire off at ships. Armoured fish boats is something the Chinese themselves have used very effectively. So these would be targets the Chinese couldn't target because they are possibly civilian ships, but at the same time would cause damage to the Chinese trade and fleet, if they are used correctly.

All three of these combined could be effect counter to the Chinese missile shield which has pushing the US carriers and surface fleet out. I don't see anyway to destroy the Chinese missiles themselves and the Chinese would just build more. So the counter needs to be operational and tactical, basically taking the missiles out of play. Rather than strategically destroying and countering the missiles with your own missiles.

Let me know if you can think of other options and something I am missing. To counter the Chinese counter is vitally important if the US or other Asian countries stand a chance. Think of it like a boxing style. The Americans are a long-range back foot game fighter with a big right hand over the top. This beats 95% of fighters and styles. However the Chinese have build their style so the can slip the jab and get on the inside on the Americans and go to war with both hands and then they clinch if they Americans come on the inside on them. So the Americans need to counter the Chinese counter, by learning the ambush style, where you jump inside and fire off your heavy shots and them move back out behind your back foot game. Keeping the Chinese off balance and unsure of how you are going to fight them from one round to the next.

 

[TR_123456]

From a recent post I made about how the US and Western nations are failing to counter what the Chinese are doing, it got me thinking what the options could be for countering the Chinese counter measures against the US carrier groups.

So the main weapon the Chinese have is thousands of land based and navy base missiles that will saturate the waters around China if anyone tries to push them around like the US did with their carriers and deny anyone access to their sea's. So given this is the primary weapon how could the US, other Asian nations counter this. This pushes the US carriers and surface fleets away from the Chinese coast, meaning Chinese can do what it likes within that area, be it invade Taiwan or block trade or build naval bases on islands.

I have a few different thoughts. Obvious one is using submarines to be less detectable. Then the question is what sort of submarines. SSN's are too expensive, large and not designed to operate in coast waters so they are out. Small/midget submarines are cheap and the least detectable, but they lack range and payload. So I think a 3rd tier SSK. Around 1,500 tons, with a couple weeks range and a dozen or so torpedo's. Similar to the Norwegian or Dutch submarines or the Scorpene class from Chile. You build 40 of them, cheaply and you base them around the first island chain at different points. Then you send out 10 at a time in hunting packs so they can support each other and engage Chinese shipping and submarines. They are much simpler, cheaper and easier to replace than the SSN's. They can also mine the area too. So that's the sub surface aspect.

The surface aspect would appear to be totally off the table. However I feel there are a number of combined options which with the submarine aspect would counter what the Chinese have done. The first is anti-surface warfare light frigates or corvettes. Using a squadrons of 3-4 ships, moving at 40 plus knots and interchanging their positions and zig-zaging, throwing off counter measures to the missiles and being unconventional. This would require something which hasn't been seen since the 1800's, squadron maneuver tactics. At high speed and high levels of coordination between the ships involved, to counter the Chinese attacks and attack shipping, not with conventional missiles, but unconventional attacks. Like fire missiles to set ships on fire, noise missiles which stick to a ship and cause a 200 decibel sound/music to continue to play and make it so the ship can't function and lastly a shrapnel shot missile/shell which explodes and takes out sensors within the super-structure of the ship. Again designed to make it so the ship can't function, not to kill anyone.

Lastly there is the 4GW aspect, so things like a torpedo dhow. So a dhow with one torpedo to get close and fire off at ships. Armoured fish boats is something the Chinese themselves have used very effectively. So these would be targets the Chinese couldn't target because they are possibly civilian ships, but at the same time would cause damage to the Chinese trade and fleet, if they are used correctly.

All three of these combined could be effect counter to the Chinese missile shield which has pushing the US carriers and surface fleet out. I don't see anyway to destroy the Chinese missiles themselves and the Chinese would just build more. So the counter needs to be operational and tactical, basically taking the missiles out of play. Rather than strategically destroying and countering the missiles with your own missiles.

Let me know if you can think of other options and something I am missing. To counter the Chinese counter is vitally important if the US or other Asian countries stand a chance. Think of it like a boxing style. The Americans are a long-range back foot game fighter with a big right hand over the top. This beats 95% of fighters and styles. However the Chinese have build their style so the can slip the jab and get on the inside on the Americans and go to war with both hands and then they clinch if they Americans come on the inside on them. So the Americans need to counter the Chinese counter, by learning the ambush style, where you jump inside and fire off your heavy shots and them move back out behind your back foot game. Keeping the Chinese off balance and unsure of how you are going to fight them from one round to the next.

You do understand that a direct confrontation between the US and China is highly unlikely?

 

[Ayrtonite]

You do understand that a direct confrontation between the US and China is highly unlikely?

While the United States and China, rely on each other economically, there are a few flashpoints that while they most likely won't lead to an all-out war, a limited conflict is quite possible in the near future.

 

[RogerRanger]

You do understand that a direct confrontation between the US and China is highly unlikely?

I do. Mainly because the US is a failing Empire. Like Britain was in the 1930's. That doesn't mean there couldn't be a conflict say between China and Vietnam which the US could be draw into.

 

[RogerRanger]

While the United States and China, rely on each other economically, there are a few flashpoints that while they most likely won't lead to an all-out war, a limited conflict is quite possible in the near future.

Economic reliance leads to fear which leads to war. The issue right now is the Chinese have full manipulation of the American Empire through the alliance they have with the American deep state. So there will not be any war or confrontation until Biden is out of office. If Trump was still in and was pushing the Chinese and American deep state faction out of power. A direct confrontation would be guaranteed. However the threat of Chinese going to war with a smaller power in Asia is likely, or even two smaller powers going to war like Korea and North Korea, or Vietnam and someone else is likely.

The problem for the US is they will lose the next war or conflict with Russia, Iran and China.

 

[Ayrtonite]

Economic reliance leads to fear which leads to war. The issue right now is the Chinese have full manipulation of the American Empire through the alliance they have with the American deep state. So there will not be any war or confrontation until Biden is out of office. If Trump was still in and was pushing the Chinese and American deep state faction out of power. A direct confrontation would be guaranteed. However the threat of Chinese going to war with a smaller power in Asia is likely, or even two smaller powers going to war like Korea and North Korea, or Vietnam and someone else is likely.

The problem for the US is they will lose the next war or conflict with Russia, Iran and China.

???

 

[Parry Brima]

It's gonna be proxy war. Probably in Myanmar?

 

[RogerRanger]

It's gonna be proxy war. Probably in Myanmar?

China is already at war with the US. Using unrestricted warfare.