I am Pakhtun

Kaptaan

Experienced member
Think Tank Analyst
Messages
1,734
Reactions
4,073
Nation of residence
United Kingdom
Nation of origin
Pakistan
So in the spirit of Prime Imran Khan's suggeted reading for December last "The history of Pathans" I open this thread to inform and educate about one of Pakistan's vital and important ethnic group that makes the rich Pakistan mosaic of peoples. Imran Khan is also of Pakhtun heritage. Just as to clarify Afghanistan has Pashtun population as well but Pakistan has the largest population of Pakhtuns in the world with the Khyber Pakhtunkwa Province forming the core of the population centred on the historic capital city - Peshawar. We have built empires and conquered continents. Ask the Indian's whose sword they felt besides the Turkish and Persian scimitars.

Bala Hisar Fort in Peshwar has seen Scythians, Aryans, Kushans, Greeks of Alexander, Mongols, Turks, Persians and British.

imrankhan.pti

"This month I recommend the book “History of the Pathans” by Brig (r) Haroon Rashid."



1609611349495.png



path.png
 

Kaptaan

Experienced member
Think Tank Analyst
Messages
1,734
Reactions
4,073
Nation of residence
United Kingdom
Nation of origin
Pakistan
How close is Pashto to Urdu?
They do share some vocabulary [Arabic/Turkish/Persian loanwords] but are not mutually intelligible. Pashto/Pakhto belongs to the wider Iranic language group and is in the same family as Kurdish [Turkey/Iran etc], Ossetian [Russia/Caucasus], Farsi [Iran], Dari [Afghanistan], Baloch [Pakistan/Iran, Tajik [Tajikistan] and Pashto [Pakistan/Afghanistan.

If you treat Kurdish as the most westernmost Iranic language, Pashto is the easternmost of the same family. Thus this language group stretches from Turkey to Pakistan, from Ossetia to Tajikistan. I suppose Persian might be described as the senior language of this group.


1609623734377.png
 

Nilgiri

Experienced member
Moderator
Aviation Specialist
Messages
9,693
Reactions
118 19,614
Nation of residence
Canada
Nation of origin
India
Yes. Many Niazi's are in the military. Imran Khan's uncle I believe was a general. The present Pak naval chief is also a Niazi - Admiral M Amjad Khan Niazi.

I guess Niazi is a Paktun tribal name. There are some other ones I have come across...lot end with "zai" etc

This is quite interesting:

 

Indos

Contributor
Think Tank Analyst
Messages
1,219
Reactions
1,537
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
So in the spirit of Prime Imran Khan's suggeted reading for December last "The history of Pathans" I open this thread to inform and educate about one of Pakistan's vital and important ethnic group that makes the rich Pakistan mosaic of peoples. Imran Khan is also of Pakhtun heritage. Just as to clarify Afghanistan has Pashtun population as well but Pakistan has the largest population of Pakhtuns in the world with the Khyber Pakhtunkwa Province forming the core of the population centred on the historic capital city - Peshawar. We have built empires and conquered continents. Ask the Indian's whose sword they felt besides the Turkish and Persian scimitars.

Bala Hisar Fort in Peshwar has seen Scythians, Aryans, Kushans, Greeks of Alexander, Mongols, Turks, Persians and British.

imrankhan.pti

"This month I recommend the book “History of the Pathans” by Brig (r) Haroon Rashid."



View attachment 10454


View attachment 10455

Pashtun is very conservative which is actually an opposite of your current ideology :LOL:
 

Kaptaan

Experienced member
Think Tank Analyst
Messages
1,734
Reactions
4,073
Nation of residence
United Kingdom
Nation of origin
Pakistan
Pashtun is very conservative which is actually an opposite of your current ideology
That is a very narrow minded perception. All societies come with differant shades of thought. I am sure that applies to Indonesians as well or are you all guys exactly the same fit?
 

KKF 2.0

Well-known member
Messages
354
Reactions
825
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
They do share some vocabulary [Arabic/Turkish/Persian loanwords] but are not mutually intelligible. Pashto/Pakhto belongs to the wider Iranic language group and is in the same family as Kurdish [Turkey/Iran etc], Ossetian [Russia/Caucasus], Farsi [Iran], Dari [Afghanistan], Baloch [Pakistan/Iran, Tajik [Tajikistan] and Pashto [Pakistan/Afghanistan.

If you treat Kurdish as the most westernmost Iranic language, Pashto is the easternmost of the same family. Thus this language group stretches from Turkey to Pakistan, from Ossetia to Tajikistan. I suppose Persian might be described as the senior language of this group.


View attachment 10458
Thanks. I'm assuming that you're favouring the unification of Afghanistan and Pakistan.
 

Kaptaan

Experienced member
Think Tank Analyst
Messages
1,734
Reactions
4,073
Nation of residence
United Kingdom
Nation of origin
Pakistan
Thanks. I'm assuming that you're favouring the unification of Afghanistan and Pakistan.
Yes. Absolutely. Not possible right now. First step should be over time a softening of the border. Then over time a open border. Not sure of unification but certainly a common region for prosperity and trade. But now with all the wars and trouble it is not feasible. Unification can have many forms.
 

KKF 2.0

Well-known member
Messages
354
Reactions
825
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
Yes. Absolutely. Not possible right now. First step should be over time a softening of the border. Then over time a open border. Not sure of unification but certainly a common region for prosperity and trade. But now with all the wars and trouble it is not feasible. Unification can have many forms.
I don't think that Pakistan would survive this, though. The Punjabi wouldn't accept becoming a minority in Pakistan. Taking into account that many resources between Gilgit and Gwadar are bound to demographic factors, I really don't see anyone in Pakistan benefiting from such a plan with the exception of Pakhtu communities.
 

Kaptaan

Experienced member
Think Tank Analyst
Messages
1,734
Reactions
4,073
Nation of residence
United Kingdom
Nation of origin
Pakistan
I don't think that Pakistan would survive this, though. The Punjabi wouldn't accept becoming a minority in Pakistan. Taking into account that many resources between Gilgit and Gwadar are bound to demographic factors, I really don't see anyone in Pakistan benefiting from such a plan with the exception of Pakhtu communities.
I understand the complications. As much as some might feel threatened within Pakistan there are also groups in Afghanistan who would also feel they would be marginalized like Tajiks. It is for this reason I suggested a co-prosperity region of soft borders. Something like EU. Incidentally the Durrani Empire included most of Pakistan and Afghanistan.

1609641135147.png


1609641200554.png
 

Kaptaan

Experienced member
Think Tank Analyst
Messages
1,734
Reactions
4,073
Nation of residence
United Kingdom
Nation of origin
Pakistan
Perhaps you have been given wrong info but by and large Pakhtuns and Punjabi's get along fine in Pakistan. The Pakistan Army is largely a Punjabi/Pakhtun force. The day the Pakhtun/Punjabi compact breaks is the day Pakistan ios finished. Both communities are neighbours with centuries of mixing with each. Imran Khan the Prime Minster is a 'Punjabi. in the sense that he was born and brought up in Lahore although a ethnic Pakhtun. If you look at PTI and his government they won int two provinces. Khyber-Pakhtunkwa and Punjab. We do however have and had issues in Karachi against MQM* and the Mohajirs relating to appropriation of resources etc. There is indeed lot of hostility there even going back to 1960s from Ayub Khan era.

*Mohajirs - Migrants from India post 1947 mostly settled in Karachi.

@KKF 2.0
 

KKF 2.0

Well-known member
Messages
354
Reactions
825
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
Perhaps you have been given wrong info but by and large Pakhtuns and Punjabi's get along fine in Pakistan. The Pakistan Army is largely a Punjabi/Pakhtun force. The day the Pakhtun/Punjabi compact breaks is the day Pakistan ios finished. Both communities are neighbours with centuries of mixing with each. Imran Khan the Prime Minster is a 'Punjabi. in the sense that he was born and brought up in Lahore although a ethnic Pakhtun. If you look at PTI and his government they won int two provinces. Khyber-Pakhtunkwa and Punjab. We do however have and had issues in Karachi against MQM* and the Mohajirs relating to appropriation of resources etc. There is indeed lot of hostility there even going back to 1960s from Ayub Khan era.

*Mohajirs - Migrants from India post 1947 mostly settled in Karachi.

@KKF 2.0

Most books, articles and journals about Pakistani demographics in the West are one way or another addressing this issue as a 'hidden rivalry' between the two communities. Punjabis are often referred to and introduced as the "base", "backbone" or "foundation" of Pakistan's statehood as though the nation revolves around them. Is this perception wrong? What's more, they're described as more secular than Pakhtuns, hence, people have assumptions like Indo.
 
N

Null/Void

Guest
Most books, articles and journals about Pakistani demographics in the West are one way or another addressing this issue as a 'hidden rivalry' between the two communities. Punjabis are often referred to and introduced as the "base", "backbone" or "foundation" of Pakistan's statehood as though the nation revolves around them. Is this perception wrong? What's more, they're described as more secular than Pakhtuns, hence, people have assumptions like Indo.
Who do you think is filling academia in the west Pakistan has failed at cultivating ties or any form of soft power
 

Kaptaan

Experienced member
Think Tank Analyst
Messages
1,734
Reactions
4,073
Nation of residence
United Kingdom
Nation of origin
Pakistan
Most books, articles and journals about Pakistani demographics in the West are one way or another addressing this issue as a 'hidden rivalry' between the two communities
They often make it sound sinister. The fact is in every country with a multi-ethnic make up [that covers most of the countries] will have rivalries between differant groups and tussles over resources. This applies to Turkey, to Spain, to UK where Scots often complain about the English. This is entirely human phenomenon and to be expected. However as I said before the most important institution in Pakistan - the army is primarily a Punjabi and Pakhtun force. Yes, there are extreme groups on the fringes but they don't carry much national currency.

Punjabis are often referred to and introduced as the "base", "backbone" or "foundation" of Pakistan's statehood as though the nation revolves around them. Is this perception wrong?
They are most dominant in population so that feeds into everything. Also Punjab has huge agriculture dating from British times when irigation farming took off on huge scale. Thus Punjab is today Pakistan's breadbasket. So there is some substance to that.

There is another factor to bear in mind. Modernity arrived in this part of the world with the British. Prior to that this region had effectively been left behind by world events. This factor is a important one when comparing Turkey as a society to places like Pakistan. Turkey being on the door step of Europe was touched by the winds of Renaissance and thus had plenty of time to evolve. Our part of the world was cut off from progress and remained stagnant thus was hundreds of years behind by the time the British arrived.

When the British arrived they were vector for change and introduction to modernity. This is when schools, universities teaching modern subjects were established. This process of modernity being introduced was not equal across their empire. The regions they took over first recieved most of this process of change. The British arrived in what is now India/Bangladesh in 1700s whereas the arrived in what is now Pakistan in 1849. So your talking of extra century of British rule. That allowed lot of time for permeation of modern thought.

Within what is now Pakistan Punjab recieved the most influence by the British as it was firest to fall under trheir rule. The Pakhtun areas on the western side came later under British rule and even then the border zones remained contested with regular wars with the British Empire. This is another reason why Punjab has advantage.

However times are changing. If you look at PTI government education forms top priority and Khyber Pakhtunkwa Province has made incredible progress in education and it is nice to see that this also extends to female education. This all will have major impact with a generation on Pakistan as hidden energy of this part of Pakistan really impacts the national tapestry.

What's more, they're described as more secular than Pakhtuns, hence, people have assumptions like Indo.
Yes. This is true. Pakhtuns tend to be more conservative and religious. This partly has to do with what I said above but there are other reasons. There is reason to think that religion was given extra importance by the state in this part of Pakistan as a way to neutralize the strong ethno-centrism sentiments revolving around the idea of Pashtunistan. These sentiment often revolved around ethnic supremacism and religion was a tool to muffle such movements. Much diminshed today but they still do persist within fringe parties unfortunately, which are secular and often left leaning. `

But change is coming. We are what we are through our experiances, education and ideas that we have been exposed to. The borderlands or what were until recently called 'tribal regions' had the least developed areas of Pakistan and Pakhtun traditional codes held sway with some of the lowest female literacy rates in the country. But education and exposure can bring enormous change. One great example of this is the present Minister of Climate Change Mrs Zartaj Gul in PM Imran Khan's government. She was born in tribal areas and today is a federal minister. She is a pointer to the future which is where I like looking at then dwelling on the present. Change is law of nature and we should accept and celebrate it. Personally I am very excited about the future of Pakistan. It's the people with enormous abilities, untapped at the moment that gives me hope.

A young female Pakhtun, from tribal areas, today a federal minister. This is sort of change that will bring progress to Pakistan.

 

Follow us on social media

Latest posts

Top Bottom