In the light of the recently started Turkish Carrier studies

[Hexciter]

If UK has been choose the F-35C instead of B’s, the Queen Elizabeth will be look like that!

Hint: Think a marinized MMU/TF-X.

 

[Cabatli_TR]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1301050723061444609

 

[Ryder]

Light carrier is the way to go

 

[Hexciter]

Light carrier is the way to go

A 65000 DWT carrier will not be a lightweight in any terms. Otherwise you always need a STOVL fighter.
The smallest Catobar carrier is the Charles De Gaulle which is a 45000 DWT ship.

 

[Ryder]

A 65000 DWT carrier will not be a lightweight in any terms. Otherwise you always need a STOVL fighter.

Harriers or the F35B. Carriers are going to get smaller or more effiecent.

Days of huge behemoth of carriers are going away in my opinion.

 

[Hexciter]

Harriers or the F35B. Carriers are going to get smaller or more effiecent.

Days of huge behemoth of carriers are going away in my opinion.

Sorry but, development/purchase of a STOVL fighter is out of our reach. The simplest is the marinized MMU

 

[Ryder]

Sorry but, development/purchase of a STOVL fighter is out of our reach. The simplest is the marinized MMU

No chance for a harrier at least?

 

[Hexciter]

No chance for a harrier at least?

They are very old. The remaining UK Harriers have been bought by USA. Few present in the Italian and Spanish navies. Even you want to buy them, USA permissal needed because of US components. For the use of them you don’t need a new carrier. TCG Anadolu can base them. If so, building TCG Trakya is enough to use all remaining with a good spares.

 

[Ghost soldier]

They are very old. The remaining UK Harriers have been bought by USA. Few present in the Italian and Spanish navies. Even you want to buy them, USA permissal needed because of US components. For the use of them you don’t need a new carrier. TCG Anadolu can base them. If so, building TCG Trakya is enough to use all remaining with a good spares.

What about navalised f-4 phantom ?

 

[Hexciter]

What about navalised f-4 phantom ?

Any left which not had been trashed yet?
F/A-18 or Marine Rafale may be the options. But, how you buy them?

 

[Ghost soldier]

Any left which not had been trashed?

There are 48 f-4E 2020 phantom in service plus it's not difficult to modify it

 

[Hexciter]

There are 48 f-4E 2020 phantom in service plus it's not difficult to modify it
View attachment 701

Marinizing not easy thing than you thought. All craft had to be modified/replaced with those that can withstand salted water and Catobar ops. Building a new one is much cheaper.

 

[Ghost soldier]

Just another example I found online of an indigenous catapult launch and arrestor system tested on the f-4E phantom

 

[Hexciter]

View attachment 702
Just another example I found online of an indigenous catapult launch and arrestor system tested on the f-4E phantom

A good test bed for a marinized MMU

 

[Anmdt]

View attachment 702
Just another example I found online of an indigenous catapult launch and arrestor system tested on the f-4E phantom

It is land based cable arrest system which is used in some airstrips and there wasn't a catapult test and it wasn't related to take off/landing systems of the ships, however it requires a stronger frame,which requires modification, in marine application because approach-landing windows is narrow and short, thus airplane should be caught and stopped in a short distance.
Beside this, an aircraft carrier is not just a ship which is carrying jets.
I expect that what is referred as " aircraft carrier" would be larger version of TCG Anadolu focusing only Light Aircraft Carrier configuration, optimized for those purposes.

 

[Captain_Azeri_76]

It is land based cable arrest system which is used in some airstrips and there wasn't a catapult test and it wasn't related to take off/landing systems of the ships, however it requires a stronger frame,which requires modification, in marine application because approach-landing windows is narrow and short, thus airplane should be caught and stopped in a short distance.
Beside this, an aircraft carrier is not just a ship which is carrying jets.
I expect that what is referred as " aircraft carrier" would be larger version of TCG Anadolu focusing only Light Aircraft Carrier configuration, optimized for those purposes.

I still think that an expansion of our "aircraft carriers" and the loading and conversion to CATOBAR with Hurjets would be the best alternative - since the aircraft would be light and serve as air support.

 

[Anmdt]

I still think that an expansion of our "aircraft carriers" and the loading and conversion to CATOBAR with Hurjets would be the best alternative - since the aircraft would be light and serve as air support.

Currently we are pretty far from achieving that on our own. If we had designed& built TCG Anadolu on our own through assistance, nowadays we could have been speaking about designing and building an AC with minimal contribution from 3rd parties.
Our engineers didn't take place in design process of TCG Anadolu, (or the part done by them was quite tiny and related to installed Turkish parts) ,the technology transfer was limited and far from delivering knowledge and culture of a such vessel. If SSB had pushed for a greater tech transfer along with indigenous design, it would have been a lot different now. The only way to achieve this, was designing TCG Anadolu in Turkey under consultancy of a partner (ie. UK)

In my opinion the priority is clear and definite:
Completion of Istif Class
Completion of TF-2000
Completion of Milden,
and prepare a long term plan to effectively launch AC project following finalization of MILDEN project. If we dont complete first three project it will leave a huge deficit in our national defense.

 

[Captain_Azeri_76]

Currently we are pretty far from achieving that on our own. If we had designed& built TCG Anadolu on our own through assistance, nowadays we could have been speaking about designing and building an AC with minimal contribution from 3rd parties.
Our engineers didn't take place in design process of TCG Anadolu, (or the part done by them was quite tiny and related to installed Turkish parts) ,the technology transfer was limited and far from delivering knowledge and culture of a such vessel. If SSB had pushed for a greater tech transfer along with indigenous design, it would have been a lot different now. The only way to achieve this, was designing TCG Anadolu in Turkey under consultancy of a partner (ie. UK)

In my opinion the priority is clear and definite:
Completion of Istif Class
Completion of TF-2000
Completion of Milden,
and prepare a long term plan to effectively launch AC project following finalization of MILDEN project. If we dont complete first three project it will leave a huge deficit in our national defense.

You are absolutely right that other projects have priority for the time being and are more important for the marine in terms of power... but the question is: can you upgrade an LHD? I mean, the SkiJump was unfortunately canceled - unfounded until today (allegedly because we don't need it for F35).... do you think turkey is able to design and develop a small AC by itself? why did turkey not participate in the trial? what were the conditions for the LHD?

 

[Anmdt]

You are absolutely right that other projects have priority for the time being and are more important for the marine in terms of power... but the question is: can you upgrade an LHD? I mean, the SkiJump was unfortunately canceled - unfounded until today (allegedly because we don't need it for F35).... do you think turkey is able to design and develop a small AC by itself? why did turkey not participate in the trial? what were the conditions for the LHD?

Ski-jump is avaliable, and the ship is designed and built to operate STOVL aircraft, it can be either F-35B, or Harriers, or indigenous UAV. You can upgrade a classical LHD to operate STOVL aircraft from that (Japan and Italy considers doing so) but you can not upgrade an existing LHD to the level of a full fledged AC (with CATOBAR/EMALS).
However, you can redesign, expand the new design it such that it can accommodate a single runway and CATOBAR.
In LHD project there has been contestants, two contestants has adopted foreign designs, one contestant has locally designed an LHD with consultancy of foreign sources and it was promising in terms of gaining knowledge and design capabilities. Unfortunately, TCG Anadolu was one of the adopted designs, and now we are in no place to allocate manpower and money to learn how to design an AC.
Lastly, a long term commitment can be efficient (post 2035)

 

[Yasar_TR]

TCG Anadolu, if built without the ski jump would have been much more expensive due to extra design work necessary to remove it from the current design. Besides it was always going to be an advantage to have the capability.
This vessel has a fairly long runway. ~200+ metres. It can not hold more than 12 planes. Ideally it will have 6-8 planes.
Now, if we look at the INS Vikramaditya; it can accommodate Hal Tejas aircraft with a ski lift take off within ~125 metres and landing via arresting hook within ~87 metres. This plane , although has a delta wing that gives a good lift is similar in weight to our projected Hurjet. Hal-tejas has a less powerful engine; f404 ~17700lbf. Hurjet with ej200 will develop 20200lbs and if the tvc version of the ej200 is used then it could develop 23100lbf. With this engine , Hurjet should be able to take off from TCG Anadolu with ski lift and land with an arresting hook. As the total number of aircrafts will not exceed 8, twin runway need is not really necessary. Take-off and landing can be done in turns.
of course the plane has to be more robust and be navalised to withstand the rigours of sea conditions.
jus a thought!!??
loud thinking!!