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Zapper

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Time for India and Turkey to benefit from this and set aside our problems.

Turkey is a independant and souvereign country and an important part of the new global era to come.

In this new and dangerous global order the Turkish Republic cant afford to miss oppurtunities and potential economic and militairy developments and deals because of old pains and politically correctnessy.

Turkey should look at their own benefits and interests and make friendly contact and tradings with India, Armenia, Cuba, North Korea and Israel. We cant lose these huge markets out of fear from Pakistan, Azerbaijan, Kosovo, South Korea or Palestine
Both India and Turkey should focus on forming a non-aligned trading bloc independent of western or sino-russian influences by onboarding SE Asian, South American, African and stan countries
 

HTurk

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This war is bringing out a lot of truths one is attack on white Ukrain is different from attack on Iraq and Syria :

Seems like Syrian and Iraqi life is pretty cheap in front of these fat Europeans


In the eyes of the Western world, brown, black, native or Asian life will never be as worthy as a white man's life.
 

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Time for India and Turkey to benefit from this and set aside our problems.

Turkey is a independant and souvereign country and an important part of the new global era to come.

In this new and dangerous global order the Turkish Republic cant afford to miss oppurtunities and potential economic and militairy developments and deals because of old pains and politically correctnessy.

Turkey should look at their own benefits and interests and make friendly contact and tradings with India, Armenia, Cuba, North Korea and Israel. We cant lose these huge markets out of fear from Pakistan, Azerbaijan, Kosovo, South Korea or Palestine.

Look at how quick Pakistan and Azerbaijan alligned with Russia after the invasion of Ukraine without informing us. Even our intelligence service was surprised.

Look at Palestine that joined the East Med Forum despite Turkey's boycot, while even Lebanon rejected membership because of our aid to them after the big port explosion.

The parliaments and governments of Pakistan and Azerbaijan didnt even sign a FTA with Turkey. The talks with Pakistan started in 2014 and was scheduled for signing before 2016, but its now 2022 and Pakistan still refuse to sign the deal, maybe because of Chinese pressure.

Azerbaijan only accepted a very limited trade deal, that only cover some 20% of Turkish products and does not want to negotiate about a reall FTA despite Turkish call's (maybe Russia's pressure). Hell, Azerbaidjan even asked visa from Turkish citizens before we saved their asses in Karabach.

Turkey must place their own interests and security first. It must be Turkey First.

Lets revisit all of this after we see how it goes with Russia this year....the dust needs to settle and we need to look at the larger situation that prevails in the world settings and levers.

This is not small stuff.
 

Nilgiri

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He was indeed appointed. I'm not entirely convinced he had links with Islamists, Tata Group is a huge $314 billion conglomerate and I refuse to believe they would appoint CEO of such a prestigious project like the revived Air India without conducting a thorough background check.

However there were few pieces of investigative journalism that called out the alleged links - and it seems Tata wanted to avoid possible bad optics, so must have asked Ayci to decline the offer on his behalf so as not to make Tata look like they made a mistake in appointing him.

In business circles with lot of public exposure, this is usually how it's done in most countries.

@Nilgiri

A very unfortunate thing that has played out in the end as it has....
 

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He was indeed appointed. I'm not entirely convinced he had links with Islamists, Tata Group is a huge $314 billion conglomerate and I refuse to believe they would appoint CEO of such a prestigious project like the revived Air India without conducting a thorough background check.

However there were few pieces of investigative journalism that called out the alleged links - and it seems Tata wanted to avoid possible bad optics, so must have asked Ayci to decline the offer on his behalf so as not to make Tata look like they made a mistake in appointing him.

In business circles with lot of public exposure, this is usually how it's done in most countries.

@Nilgiri
By they i mean Indian media and as I said before all companies do proper background check before such appointment and I am sure they must got NOC from Home ministry and clearance from IB .
Tata did right thing by appointing a capable man
 

Nilgiri

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By they i mean Indian media and as I said before all companies do proper background check before such appointment and I am sure they must got NOC from Home ministry and clearance from IB .
Tata did right thing by appointing a capable man

Yup....but typical mouthbreathing mob doesnt care and has now got their way on this.

I was lookign forward to this being another example of good IND-TR relationship like with the HSL replenishment ship stuff.

Sigh!
 

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In the eyes of the Western world, brown, black, native or Asian life will never be as worthy as a white man's life.
Both their reactions, and our brown, black, native and Asian reactions to their reactions are so insightful.
 

crixus

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In the eyes of the Western world, brown, black, native or Asian life will never be as worthy as a white man's life.
You know we know it very well , we have seen many examples where so called white man have proved more then inhuman , Jallianwala bagh incident in 1919 during first world war and manmade Bengal famine in 1940 during second world war literally proved the value of Indian life.

I feel pain of innocent Ukranians facing the hardships , but in this world everyman is for himself and every country is for herself .
 

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Time for India and Turkey to benefit from this and set aside our problems.

Turkey is a independant and souvereign country and an important part of the new global era to come.

In this new and dangerous global order the Turkish Republic cant afford to miss oppurtunities and potential economic and militairy developments and deals because of old pains and politically correctnessy.

Turkey should look at their own benefits and interests and make friendly contact and tradings with India, Armenia, Cuba, North Korea and Israel. We cant lose these huge markets out of fear from Pakistan, Azerbaijan, Kosovo, South Korea or Palestine.

Look at how quick Pakistan and Azerbaijan alligned with Russia after the invasion of Ukraine without informing us. Even our intelligence service was surprised.

Look at Palestine that joined the East Med Forum despite Turkey's boycot, while even Lebanon rejected membership because of our aid to them after the big port explosion.

The parliaments and governments of Pakistan and Azerbaijan didnt even sign a FTA with Turkey. The talks with Pakistan started in 2014 and was scheduled for signing before 2016, but its now 2022 and Pakistan still refuse to sign the deal, maybe because of Chinese pressure.

Azerbaijan only accepted a very limited trade deal, that only cover some 20% of Turkish products and does not want to negotiate about a reall FTA despite Turkish call's (maybe Russia's pressure). Hell, Azerbaidjan even asked visa from Turkish citizens before we saved their asses in Karabach.

Turkey must place their own interests and security first. It must be Turkey First.

100% agree with this!!

Why should our foreign policy be taken hostage by a few countries.

We have a right to bolster relations with India.

Funny how Pakistan and Azerbaijan do their own stuff then they get triggered when us Turks look out for own interests.

Double standards at best.

India is a big market. I disagree with Kashmir no doubt but does not mean we cut relations or act hostile to India.

Our foreign policy does not run on Ummah or Pan Turkism fuel.
 

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You know we know it very well , we have seen many examples where so called white man have proved more then inhuman , Jallianwala bagh incident in 1919 during first world war and manmade Bengal famine in 1940 during second world war literally proved the value of Indian life.

I feel pain of innocent Ukranians facing the hardships , but in this world everyman is for himself and every country is for herself .
(y)(y)(y)
 

Nilgiri

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In the eyes of the Western world, brown, black, native or Asian life will never be as worthy as a white man's life.

"World" surely is too vast and reductive a word here to use?

I think its important to stress your tribalist phenomenon becomes the case (to some disturbing degree) when power enters the equation

i.e Tribalism was, is and will be the easiest polarised cleave on offer around.... and surfaces ipso facto to new concentrated form up the ladder of power (however that exists)....since the dawn of man ...driven (like all things in our psyche) by his awakening and reckoning to his finite fate in an infinite realm.

Consider cpl of my earlier quotes and their context:

You don't understand because you coming at it rationally.

But there is an irrational divide in the anglo-saxon head.

Out of dozen or so "WASPS" I have had to deal with in higher tier stuff....for every good+fair minded one there is a foul minded one when certain push come to shove things are brought to air out.

I then see which one gets promoted....its stacked in favour of latter.

This colours all their approach in dealing with threats like Russia and China.

A country like Greece will always be preferred over Turkey in that psyche....no matter what Turkey offers.

Similar thing goes on in other neighbourhoods in different ways.....but that is too long topic to get into.

They are symptom of a larger problem.

Crash and burn is not the solution as another one like it will pop up just the same.

There is a whole elitist group in the west that live in ivory towers thinking their shit smells like flowers.

They have convinced themselves of a lot of immoral, irrational things....and there has not been enough blowback on it to correct it and bring them down a peg or two......yet.

Actually this is off-topic anyway.

For MIUS and UAV tech, turkey and other countries should simply not care what others think and blah about it.....and keep developing it....and go for results always.

Results bring truth to matter like nothing else can.


But I must stress a backdrop...that of the regular (plebian if you will) people ....who are about the same everywhere in the world I find (especially when you factor in all the relevant contexts)...a mix of good, bad and inbetween mixed all about.

That may be to do with our mind being more occupied with average joe things in the end....tribalism takes a hike in the time allocation overall once you figure out this dude is the same deep down as me after all....even (and maybe especially) after you have just scrapped over something....

I couldn't look at myself in the mirror again.... if I threw some very quality bunch among caucasians I known over the years....under some same bus with the worst of them that reside far removed from our plebian brotherly pact and conventions of the fray in whatever way....

Neither would I want to be lumped in with the worst of the power-freaks and related rotten psyches among my "brown" own....

In the end I do think its power that corrupts by concentrating time into various negative reductive mentalities and making them insular somehow from a diverse nuanced reality (that the day to day plebs live out in their instance more frankly... by maybe little choice in the matter).

I feel strongly one must extend this overall understanding... to plebs of every race and group of our species....and focus attention instead on how power corrupts the patricians of every such group...(including but not limited to tribalism).

MLK said after all to judge by the content of character, not the skin....that should be the default approach to anyone...especially those down on the ground with you...especially as you are among them.

Let God (or the highest reality/truth/meaning however you perceive it) deal with those in the Babel tower....inflicting evil on the rest of us.
 

Nilgiri

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In any case @HTurk now I find your approach (to which I replied to in this quoted reply at the bottom) quite possibly confusing now.

Your concept of how honed + direct + unchallengeable some realism actually is in foreign policy is IMO somewhat lacking (given vast gaps are left in its wake for others to shine upon as required)....and probably needs some unpacking here if you and others are interested in doing so....

My own personal experience on what I've glimpsed in some corridors of power and their effects on wider society may be a story I get to for another time...along with my overall take on realism vs liberalism vs marxism in the foreign policy domain with their respective stated objectives of peace... (first scoped out in the interlude of the 19th century)....

...and possibly you and others might see why I am a staunch liberal in this domain...often abhorring the other 2 when I see them take drastic negative effect on a vital artery or node.

quote (you will notice when I do refer to a collective, it is the power-group at the top among them):

We can agree to disagree, its no biggie.




You are telling me that money that goes to the tsar + boyars suddenly doesn't matter in the end if its non-military in original intent?

Interesting. (you know how finance flows + diversions work in the end?)

The west should surely apply that principle on Iran, North Korea, Cuba, Venezuela (in just recent history) as validation of that concept then?

Why the larger economic sanction on them when its just a "military export/import" angle of it?

Or is it indeed a case of all money is the same green colour in the end (no matter what you are buying) given authoritarian regime ease to turn it into whatever threat capacity?

The West knows this btw (it has illustrated it knows this several times in severe ways...in fact several times with just China alone).

It is why you will get to see what happens for yourself.




Yeah they kept telling us that after each nuclear test we did..... ouch we succumbed! :D

Then NASA comes crawling to us years later for c-c-c-c-can we cooperate a bit on rockets and satellites a bit? (On the very technology we delivered for those nukes in the first place)......saying Pretty please!.... :D

You seem to assume this is our first rodeo with the White house cowboys and DC swamp jerks (and all manner of their little poodles in Europe) and any of its "pressure" hypocrisy (that it gets away with lot more with smaller, weaker and esp non-nuclear countries).



Let me tell you the story of one especially nasty genuinely racist US president w.r.t India....since it concerns the lowest point of US - India relations to understand the overall reference the elephant remembers regarding the bald eagle.

This racist literally ignored a telegram from his own consulate in Dhaka (regarding the atrocities and genocide mounting up there)....because he had made up his mind he wanted to maintain a good relationship with the fascist thugs perpetrating it.

He (apparently) couldn't upset the switcheroo he was doing on top of that....throwing Taiwan under the bus at the time. Classy guy I know right?

This racist instead send a full CBG to the bay of bengal to threaten us.....when we were hosting refugees in the millions (with horrific stories to share of what they saw happening that they fled from).

Blood we spilled with our Bong brothers to achieve their liberation....from an ongoing genocide US was now complicit in....because of its degenerate president at the time especially.

This same place that you now give a one line "should be a military powerhouse and its the "brightest future in all of South Asia"....all without a basic understanding of the core numbers....forget the core context.

That president in his case got some form of karma soon after, having to resign his presidency or face impeachment (on a different domestic matter)....his role on the far more disturbing stuff of scale like Bangladesh....underlooked into (again hypocritically and ignorantly).

The point was we ignored his BS, gave him a good middle finger and dealt with his precious little ally alongside the Bangladeshis....and the Bangladeshis have their freedom now beause of it.

A testament to not giving a shit about extreme hypocrisy and degeneracy when it shows up from the West (or anyone else) and simply doing what is right.

Like I said, not our first rodeo (and you assume to think it is and the west doesnt know it itself deep down in the places that matter).

=====================================================

Look I know you and lot of Turks are upset about the US:

a) being in collective security arrangement with you
b) hosting warheads at incirlik
c) yet supports PKK/YPG in whatever way on your south due to the Syria situation

While we (or at least I) wish you the best on dealing with that reality....That is simply not the contours of the reality and pressure they can employ with India.

With the rough equivalents....they tried and they failed and they learned....with a nuclear test swan song to boot.

End of.

They start any of this crap (hypothetically for argument sake)..... we can go all the way back to them employing the services of a Mr. Halder of ostplan fame....even giving him a medal. ...brushing off all the blood he had on his hands.

Even the holocaust doesn't matter enough in the end you see to the lust the DC Swamp has for certain things.

There is TONS more where this comes from.....these are just examples in a larger larger web of it.

You seem to think none of this extreme hypocrisy backlog matters or can be used against the US if they start any sermon on the matter.

When it already has been....multiple times....in the mundane negotiation rooms.

You just need to be big enough and firm enough and know how to handle their talking heads they trot out. Go right to the gut punch where it lasts....they do remember those you see....and slither away and send someone better that knows what they are on about.

Its already been done, you just dont know much about it. That's not on me, thats on you.



I don't understand what you mean here? Who brought up anything regarding a "threat of cooperation with China"?

Yes we will cooperate with China, the Republic of China (Taiwan) that is...... on several things going forward.

The other "China".....we are going through a bad relation phase (that might be quite a while)....so I dunno what you are going on about here.

India has not made any such threat to cooperate with PRC lol....much less any "strategic level".

That is one of the most ridiculous things I have heard all day....and its been quite a lot of it so far let me tell you.





If Europe didnt handle Russia for 30 years regarding this well....that again is on them, not us.

The difference between France and Germany's energy policy should be enough to show a deep cleave in approach. One had much more common sense....the other finds itself reliant on Russia by its own doing.

Not even building a basic LNG port to hedge knowing it would be using much more gas soon as it turned of the BAD BAD BAD nuclear plants (that France absolutely loves having in its case).

The money all goes to the tsar and boyars in the end....to use what they want on the military threat and assets.

Priority and scale.....the West has bankrolled whats going on in Ukraine far far far more magnitudes than we have.

Undoing that damage is for them to demonstrate first (for the next 20 - 30 years) before starting the hypocrite lip with anyone else (much less India).

If they want to flex on anyone past themselves and prove any principle on it, they can also do so in the priority ladder with PRC....given they are no. 2 (so far) on bankrolling to Russia.
 

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Another round of taggings for now (please do consider putting this thread on your "watch" and interact/read as you would like pertaining to your interests over time)....so you get alerts if you want. A reply does it automatically iirc...and there is a watch thread option for each thread you can select too (to get in alert feed).

You are all folks that I have enjoyed reading myself (some a long time....some recent)....off the top of my head...apologies if you are already tagged here/watching.

When you have time it might be of interest to read some of the last few pages etc.

I do plan to contribute some deeper delves into deep issues of the world and humankind in this thread....hope folks do stay tuned (of course at your time and pace)...especially if it helps to take your mind off maybe more disturbing going-ons of the world at the more surface + current level of our time and space...

@Madokafc @Isa Khan @Ryder @Lordimperator @GoatsMilk @Anastasius @Deliorman @xenon5434 @Saithan @AlphaMike @Blackbeardsgoldfish @Pukovnik7 @Anmdt @Ecderha @Yasar @Kartal1 @what @Gessler

apologies to any ive missed....I will tag later when I remember them...
 
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Another round of taggings for now (please do consider putting this thread on your "watch" and interact/read as you would like pertaining to your interests over time)....so you get alerts if you want. A reply does it automatically iirc...and there is a watch thread option for each thread you can select too (to get in alert feed).

You are all folks that I have enjoyed reading myself (some a long time....some recent)....off the top of my head...apologies if you are already tagged here/watching.

When you have time it might be of interest to read some of the last few pages etc.

I do plan to contribute some deeper delves into deep issues of the world and humankind in this thread....hope folks do stay tuned (of course at your time and pace)...especially if it helps to take your mind off maybe more disturbing going-ons of the world at the more surface + current level of our time and space...

@Madokafc @Isa Khan @F-6 enthusiast @Ryder @Lordimperator @GoatsMilk @Anastasius @Deliorman @xenon5434 @Saithan @AlphaMike @Blackbeardsgoldfish @Pukovnik7 @Anmdt @Ecderha @Yasar @Kartal1 @what @Gessler

apologies to any ive missed....I will tag later when I remember them...

I enjoy your posts to my friend.

I felt this forum really made me appreicate defence stuff.

I felt like in my pdf days I always more of a troll than member. Here feels different.

I thank everybody for making this forum a great place
 

Nilgiri

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I enjoy your posts to my friend.

I felt this forum really made me appreicate defence stuff.

I felt like in my pdf days I always more of a troll than member. Here feels different.

I thank everybody for making this forum a great place

Yes its pretty good what reasonable people can get to (root of matter) when you turn down the extremely loud volume of static and dissonant noises from troll hordes....to the lowest volume possible so you can actually hear what a non-troll regular person is saying.

It is why I have to curate my twitter feeds extensively.... just too much BS and noise to deal with from people going emotion first over something substantial.

I have my regrets of how I have acted on PDF before too....but looking back I see it was because of the presence of some trolls and complexes festering there that brought that out of me (though I should have still known better).
 

Joe Shearer

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This is the kind of utterly obnoxious triumphalism, with no triumphs to show for it, that makes us ridiculous all over the world.

1646209577036.png

Yes its pretty good what reasonable people can get to (root of matter) when you turn down the extremely loud volume of static and dissonant noises from troll hordes....to the lowest volume possible so you can actually hear what a non-troll regular person is saying.

It is why I have to curate my twitter feeds extensively.... just too much BS and noise to deal with from people going emotion first over something substantial.

I have my regrets of how I have acted on PDF before too....but looking back I see it was because of the presence of some trolls and complexes festering there that brought that out of me (though I should have still known better).
It is possible, with enough thickening of the skin, to be rational with rational people, and to be a troll to the trolls, but it is a very heavy burden.

A burden that progressively becomes seriously punishing, and one that leads one to exclaim, on returning to a sane environment, 'What was I doing?'
 

Nilgiri

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This is the kind of utterly obnoxious triumphalism, with no triumphs to show for it, that makes us ridiculous all over the world.

View attachment 40420

It is possible, with enough thickening of the skin, to be rational with rational people, and to be a troll to the trolls, but it is a very heavy burden.

A burden that progressively becomes seriously punishing, and one that leads one to exclaim, on returning to a sane environment, 'What was I doing?'

It is indeed.... been there, done it....liked some of it....didn't care for rest of it.

Hand got forced at the end....I enjoy the greener pasture now.

I have always valued silence and quietness..... our greatest people in India always did...for some solitude for reflection and meditation.....India is after all very noisy place.
 

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