India Indian Coffee House

[TR_123456]

Happy Diwali!

 

[Nilgiri]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587851134131384320

 

[Nilgiri]

 

[Nilgiri]

Thoughts if you have any?

@Jackdaws @Zapper @Iceream @Paro @Gessler @Rajendra Chola et al.

 

[Rajendra Chola]

Thoughts if you have any?

@Jackdaws @Zapper @Iceream @Paro @Gessler @Rajendra Chola et al.

I honestly don’t know who this guy is. But I do not like influencers even a bit. They know talking about india brings them followers and money. Have you seen reaction videos of white people to Indian movies. Our guys Shamelessly go and comment on their videos giving them free money.
Remember Audrey Truschake? She was not even accepted as an Indologist by Historians in the US itself who called her ab quack and fraud. But what Indian media and our twitters bots did? Made her big as of an authority on Indian history that she was invited to literature events.
We have lots of inferiority complex for sure

 

[Paro]

Thoughts if you have any?

@Jackdaws @Zapper @Iceream @Paro @Gessler @Rajendra Chola et al.

Lol whoever he is he managed to spook every self proclaimed leftist intellectual in india.

Just yesterday saw shekhar gupta shouting out “ im not an intellectual , im not an intellectual” in his latest video. Same weirdo put himself as an intellectual over the years.

Babones isn’t wrong you know, I worked in that industry for 6 years. Our study group in india was always a bunch of national editors, few so called ngo think tanks with foreign funding, and professors in JNU. Till date no one tries to update that list knowing full well the studygroup has an existential grudge against the ruling gov and would rather drink poison than give an unbiased opinion of the country.

Its very easy to figure out if biased ot not these days. If you see a decline in any parameter (not ranking) from 2014 you know what you’re looking at. You should be in a very very bad state if any parameter goes backwards and India isnt on that list yet.

 

[iceream]

Thoughts if you have any?

@Jackdaws @Zapper @Iceream @Paro @Gessler @Rajendra Chola et al.

Who cares i care about economy and threats from China - Pak alliance

 

[Nilgiri]

Oh, that's very naive of you. Indian bureaucracy in defense procurement program is on another level, in a wrong way. Just seeing a MMU wouldn't be enough of a stimulation to trigger changes to fix their systematic flaws in the industry and the government. It's simply baffling how they could send probes to Mars and build nukes with their renowned pool of talents who also shine abroad but at the same time simultaneously fuck multiple defense programs up solely through bad project management. Though at least they seem to have learnt something from building Tejas and are fixing a few things on that side.

It is actually very shockingly simple to explain. Talent+aptitude+competence vis a vis "bureaucracy" are nearly entirely disjointed sets in India for most things as you go up the ladder of organisation and control. It gets especially worse in defence sector especially given this is old boys club inherited in a peculiar way (especially as it rests in the psyche of those with power) from the British colonial byzantine edifice that still take its own sweet time to reduce, reform and reconstruct.

Where it changes is when something entirely new started (like say space research and application and arguably missiles and some defence electronics) and there was focused competent leadership (from the bureaucrat side) initiating, gathering, prioritizing and gestating things well.

But the bulk of Indian organisation (especially in public/govt sector as the private sector has really grown and reformed now and is far less insular on this matter) still suffers this dichotomy.

I could bore you to death about each and every idea my father tried to get going in the 1980s in his earliest productive intellectual years at an Indian (public owned) telecommunications company.....but was simply shot down each time by some typical dullard above him operating off the "who you know" prevailing over "what you know".

But his eventual departure from Indian ecosystem to greener pastures to two Asian "Tiger economy" and the West more broadly after it is reason I also grew well away from the former in most aspects....and in catch 22 I bring certain things of value the way I can back to India (that has since changed a lot and continues to change today)...but only because of my unique distance and acquired perspective away from it in sufficient scale and depth.

On the side note, it's really amusing to visit DFI these days. Those nationalist folks in full denial accompanied by next level mental gymnastics and wild conspiracy theories seeing other countries succeed while their own gigs don't work is superb entertainment. Poor lads are trying every second to find any information be it out of their pants or some random twitter account to denounce others and still their insecurity. It would be a relief for sane Indian military enthusiasts that there are alternatives to DFI with forum members that could actually think.

These people broadly are creatures of habit, in that they largely cut their teeth in PDF, another ongoing cesspool. Cesspools promote and inculcate the complex that bad behaviour is responded to with more bad behaviour.

The Indian psyche already has large elements of inertial dependency on Pakistan and it metastasizes online (among "defence enthusiasts") in its own specific way generally too.

When Indian folks already knew or have understood there is a better world outside the online one and that there is a whole world outside of Pakistan....you will find they are generally more sane and balanced.

But you wont find those guys in most of the new breed "twitter" "quantity" style defence fora. I talk to them in other places generally.... other things occupy our minds and time more than what this other lot seem to prefer way too much, that echo chambers provide them in abundance just like they do for any other similar group online these days.

 

[Windchime]

Whole heartedly agree...

It is actually very shockingly simple to explain. Talent+aptitude+competence vis a vis "bureaucracy" are nearly entirely disjointed sets in India for most things as you go up the ladder of organisation and control. It gets especially worse in defence sector especially given this is old boys club inherited in a peculiar way (especially as it rests in the psyche of those with power) from the British colonial byzantine edifice that still take its own sweet time to reduce, reform and reconstruct.

Seems like the go-to solution for now is to get private sector involved in various programs, since as you describe, the private sector of India works very differently from its public sector nowadays. Though I'm not really sure if it will work that simple. Last time I've heard that they are opening a tender for a private partner to get involved in AMCA program as well, alongside a few other measures to avoid past mistakes like renewed vendor/supplier structure but I've not been paying much attention lately. We'll see how it'll work out.

These people broadly are creatures of habit, in that they largely cut their teeth in PDF, another ongoing cesspool. Cesspools promote and inculcate the complex that bad behaviour is responded to with more bad behaviour.

The Indian psyche already has large elements of inertial dependency on Pakistan and it metastasizes online (among "defence enthusiasts") in its own specific way generally too.

When Indian folks already knew or have understood there is a better world outside the online one and that there is a whole world outside of Pakistan....you will find they are generally more sane and balanced.

But you wont find those guys in most of the new breed "twitter" "quantity" style defence fora. I talk to them in other places generally.... other things occupy our minds and time more than what this other lot seem to prefer way too much, that echo chambers provide them in abundance just like they do for any other similar group online these days.

Well there's a reason I don't really talk much about anything Pakistan online with Indians since most of the times it'll turn ugly. Although Pakistan is one effective trigger, broadly speaking those folks mostly suffer either from lack of self-esteem or personality. Them strongly identifying themselves as "Indians" and nothing else, getting overly defensive about it is not really new nor unique case anyways, especially in Asia and to be frank, I don't really care seeing those people online although I am utterly annoyed.

Also, I've seen countless examples of forums and communities decline from their own success for reasons apart from nationalism as well, good example being f-16.net, which used to be a superb forum where now it ain't much more than an archive with some idiots. Apart from that, I'm not sure if I've experienced enough of that place but Bharat Rakshak seems like an enjoyable and informative place with knowledgeable people. Either way, most of the times there always are one or two bastions of rational discussion for which I'm grateful of.

 

[Nilgiri]

Whole heartedly agree...


Seems like the go-to solution for now is to get private sector involved in various programs, since as you describe, the private sector of India works very differently from its public sector nowadays. Though I'm not really sure if it will work that simple. Last time I've heard that they are opening a tender for a private partner to get involved in AMCA program as well, alongside a few other measures to avoid past mistakes like renewed vendor/supplier structure but I've not been paying much attention lately. We'll see how it'll work out.


Well there's a reason I don't really talk much about anything Pakistan online with Indians since most of the times it'll turn ugly. Although Pakistan is one effective trigger, broadly speaking those folks mostly suffer either from lack of self-esteem or personality. Them strongly identifying themselves as "Indians" and nothing else, getting overly defensive about it is not really new nor unique case anyways, especially in Asia and to be frank, I don't really care seeing those people online although I am utterly annoyed.

Also, I've seen countless examples of forums and communities decline from their own success for reasons apart from nationalism as well, good example being f-16.net, which used to be a superb forum where now it ain't much more than an archive with some idiots. Apart from that, I'm not sure if I've experienced enough of that place but Bharat Rakshak seems like an enjoyable and informative place with knowledgeable people. Either way, most of the times there always are one or two bastions of rational discussion for which I'm grateful of.

Yah Bharat Rakshak predates this twitter era "new forum" stuff that I mentioned.....so it has more seasoned and matured brigade of Indian defence watchers/analysts there. It is worthier to follow for news and analysis for sure.

Here I reference some of BR discussion regarding engine development for example:

Indian Jet Engine and Gas Turbine Archive

What do your Elf eyes see? Spliced test footage with (more stable) afterburner operation? There is not all that much to go upon here.... some of this footage might be from 2019-2020 etc and just now released. 2019 was when afterburner tests were first conducted on this engine.

defencehub.live

 

[Brokengineer]

Nowadays, i see a lot of tweets about attacks towards muslims in public. What is the problem?

 

[GoatsMilk]

i came across this video by chance its a few years old, but i guess you guys will find it interesting.

 

[Nilgiri]

Iran offers China-style strategic deal for India

An equivalent deal with India assumes significance given that India was among Iran’s top oil customers till the sanctions took effect

www.livemint.com

Iran offers China-style strategic deal for India​

1 min read . Updated: 19 Dec 2022, 06:50 AM IST


Iran has offered India a strategic cooperation pact on the lines of a deal it signed with China in 2021, two people aware of the matter said, as the sanctions-hit country tries to attract investments in its energy and infrastructure sectors.

Details of the Iran-China deal have remained under wraps. However, according to reports in the international media last year, Beijing will invest close to $400 billion in Iran’s infrastructure and energy sector under a 25-year cooperation agreement. In return, Tehran will provide China with a steady supply of discounted Iranian oil. The deal was seen as a major expansion of Beijing’s footprint in West Asia and an effort by Iran to court non-Western sources for critical investments.

Iran has offered a similar deal to India to attract Indian investments and develop its transport and energy infrastructure, the people cited above said, adding that Ali Bagheri Kani, Iran’s deputy foreign minister confirmed the offer during an interaction with a group of experts during his visit to New Delhi last month.

Details of the proposed India-Iran pact are not yet clear. However, the matter is under consideration of the ministry of external affairs, sources said. The MEA did not respond to a query.

An equivalent deal with India assumes significance given that India was among Iran’s top oil customers till the sanctions took effect. A new compact with oil-rich Iran will help the world’s third largest oil consumer deal with high energy prices.

Iran has often reiterated its willingness to supply oil to India, and even assured New Delhi that it could help meet the country’s energy needs amid the volatility due to the Russia-Ukraine conflict.

State-run oil companies such as ONGC and Oil India were also jointly exploring oil and gas in the Gulf country. An Indian consortium discovered the Farzad-B gas field in the Persian Gulf. New Delhi has also played a role in building Iran’s infrastructure. Both sides agreed to continue cooperation in the development of the Shahid Behesti terminal of Chabahar port during Kani’s November visit. For Tehran, such a deal would help develop a rebalance with Asia after tensions over Iran’s nuclear programme with the US and its European allies led to the imposition of sanctions. With Western sources of investment off the table, Iran has been looking at powers like China, India and Russia.

 

[Lool]

Iran offers China-style strategic deal for India

An equivalent deal with India assumes significance given that India was among Iran’s top oil customers till the sanctions took effect

www.livemint.com

Iran offers China-style strategic deal for India​

1 min read . Updated: 19 Dec 2022, 06:50 AM IST


Iran has offered India a strategic cooperation pact on the lines of a deal it signed with China in 2021, two people aware of the matter said, as the sanctions-hit country tries to attract investments in its energy and infrastructure sectors.

Details of the Iran-China deal have remained under wraps. However, according to reports in the international media last year, Beijing will invest close to $400 billion in Iran’s infrastructure and energy sector under a 25-year cooperation agreement. In return, Tehran will provide China with a steady supply of discounted Iranian oil. The deal was seen as a major expansion of Beijing’s footprint in West Asia and an effort by Iran to court non-Western sources for critical investments.

Iran has offered a similar deal to India to attract Indian investments and develop its transport and energy infrastructure, the people cited above said, adding that Ali Bagheri Kani, Iran’s deputy foreign minister confirmed the offer during an interaction with a group of experts during his visit to New Delhi last month.

Details of the proposed India-Iran pact are not yet clear. However, the matter is under consideration of the ministry of external affairs, sources said. The MEA did not respond to a query.

An equivalent deal with India assumes significance given that India was among Iran’s top oil customers till the sanctions took effect. A new compact with oil-rich Iran will help the world’s third largest oil consumer deal with high energy prices.

Iran has often reiterated its willingness to supply oil to India, and even assured New Delhi that it could help meet the country’s energy needs amid the volatility due to the Russia-Ukraine conflict.

State-run oil companies such as ONGC and Oil India were also jointly exploring oil and gas in the Gulf country. An Indian consortium discovered the Farzad-B gas field in the Persian Gulf. New Delhi has also played a role in building Iran’s infrastructure. Both sides agreed to continue cooperation in the development of the Shahid Behesti terminal of Chabahar port during Kani’s November visit. For Tehran, such a deal would help develop a rebalance with Asia after tensions over Iran’s nuclear programme with the US and its European allies led to the imposition of sanctions. With Western sources of investment off the table, Iran has been looking at powers like China, India and Russia.

A big mistake from India
Iran is mostly a China ally and aiding Iran in improving its energy infrastructure and other sectors is akin to shooting your own foot! Iran will never betray China for India. Not to mention that Pakistan's relation with Iran is of more importance to the Iranians than India, due to the massive shared border; therefore, India hopefully knows its shit or it will regret such a decision 10-15 years from now


India should leave Iran getting more isolated than ever with Azerbaijan, Turkey, and the Gult surrounding it from all sides

 

[Nilgiri]

A big mistake from India
Iran is mostly a China ally and aiding Iran in improving its energy infrastructure and other sectors is akin to shooting your own foot! Iran will never betray China for India.

I don't see why India and Iran need or operate on a black or white reductive paradigm here vis-a-vis any other country.

Besides what is the mistake here? Iran offers, India considers and gets back to it according to its interests.

Not to mention that Pakistan's relation with Iran is of more importance to the Iranians than India, due to the massive shared border;

Certainly doesn't show up in the numbers.

Iran imports anywhere between 1 - 4 billion USD worth of goods from India yearly in the last 5 years.

(For reference, it imports around 8 billion per year from China and about 2 billion per year from Turkiye).

Does it import 6 times (population ratio) or even 10 times less from Pakistan?

Nope, it imports something like 100 - 1000 times less from Pakistan compared to India (with no "massive shared border").

Last year (2021) Pakistan exported a grand total of 18 dollars to Iran according to its own figures given to UN comtrade.

The only major export and import these two countries do is shia based factionalism, mercenaries and associated tribalist dynamics in AFG....given the "massive shared border".

India has zero interest in that...that stuff doesn't pay any bills, build anything worthwhile or lead to anything good.

Iran and India are simply interested in another kind of relationship compared to the one Iran has with Pakistan (and its major sunni gulf backers)

therefore, India hopefully knows its shit or it will regret such a decision 10-15 years from now

Yes obviously the relationship just started yesterday and we are complete amateurs in the experience and decision analysis thus far.

India should leave Iran getting more isolated than ever with Azerbaijan, Turkiye, and the Gult surrounding it from all sides

India will do what is in its interests. Period.

 

[Nilgiri]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611115019529322498

 

[Jackdaws]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611115019529322498

This is precisely why Southern states are against increasing Lok Sabha seats based on population.

 

[Afif]

@Nilgiri what is your thought on BBC's recent documentary about Modi's role in Gujrat 'riot'?
Looks like it is creating a lot of controversy!

 

[Nilgiri]

@Nilgiri what is your thought on BBC's recent documentary about Modi's role in Gujrat 'riot'?
Looks like it is creating a lot of controversy!

I don't pay much attention to it.

BBC to begin with never came clean about its role in the Savile cover up.

Or its propaganda role during the Iraq War under Blair admin...and culpability there (given number of deaths, especially of civilians).

So selective highlight reels from such hypocrites no longer concern me.

There are hypocrites on the hindutva/bhakt side too that disgust me same way.

In end politics seems to be who can out do the other in hypocrisy.

 

[Nilgiri]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1616666653131177986