India Indian Economy + Infra Archive

[Nilgiri]

Japanese companies in India: Japan to offer aid to 2 companies moving manufacturing base from China to India | India Business News - Times of India

India Business News: Japan has agreed to offer financial assistance to two companies — Toyota-Tsusho and Sumida — to diversify their manufacturing base to India as part of

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

 

[Nilgiri]

 

[Nilgiri]

Exports show signs of improvement, up 22.47% during November 1-7: Official

Imports, excluding petroleum, jumped 23.37 per cent during the week, the official added. Trade deficit during the week stood at $2.55 billion. Exports of pharmaceuticals, and gems and jewellery grew 32 per cent to $139.12 million and 88.8 per cent to $3,360.71 million, respectively.

economictimes.indiatimes.com

 

[Nilgiri]

India announces $35 billion economic stimulus package

NEW DELHI — India’s finance minister on Thursday announced a $35.14 billion package to stimulate the economy by boosting jobs, consumer demand, manufacturing, agriculture and exports hit by the coronavirus pandemic.Nirmala Sitharaman said the package includes 9 billion rupees ($121 million) for...

ca.finance.yahoo.com

NEW DELHI — India’s finance minister on Thursday announced a $35.14 billion package to stimulate the economy by boosting jobs, consumer demand, manufacturing, agriculture and exports hit by the coronavirus pandemic.

Nirmala Sitharaman said the package includes 9 billion rupees ($121 million) for development of a COVID-19 vaccine by the government’s biotechnology department.

The announcement came a day after Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s Cabinet approved nearly 2 trillion rupees ($27 billion) in incentives over five years to manufacturers in 10 sectors, including automobiles and auto parts, pharmaceuticals, textiles and food products.

The objective of the incentives is to attract investment and enable India to become part of the global supply chain, Sitharaman said. She also said a strong economic recovery is taking root, citing an increase in tax collections for goods and services.

The government in May announced a $266 billion stimulus package to boost consumer demand and manufacturing. A large part of the package was actually loans provided by banks, many of them without collateral.

India’s economy contracted by 23.9% in the April-June quarter, its worst performance in at least 24 years as the coronavirus pandemic ravaged what was once the world’s fastest growing major economy. Another downturn is forecast for July-September data due to be announced later this month.

The New Delhi Television news channel said the GDP is expected to contract by 8.6% in the quarter ending in September.

Ashok Sharma, The Associated Press

 

[Nilgiri]

Intel moves up the value chain in India

The company has been focusing on leveraging artificial intelligence (AI) to solve India’s problems in three key areas of healthcare, smart mobility, and education

www.livemint.com

“Out of over 100,000 employees globally, the US is the largest engineering talent base for Intel followed by India. Every single development that happens in the US also happens here. We are no longer an internal outsource as we are doing cutting-edge development and work," Nivruti Rai, country head, Intel India said in an interview.

As part of its focus on AI, earlier this month, Intel India collaborated with the government of Telangana, International Institute of Information Technology, Hyderabad (IIIT-H) and Public Health Foundation of India (PHFI) to launch an applied AI research centre in Hyderabad. The AI centre will be in addition to the existing design centre it launched last year.

So far, the India units of semiconductor companies such as Intel and AMD have been focusing only on design and engineering. The manufacturing of chips, known as fabrication, is done mostly out of its factories or fabs in US, China, and Taiwan.

(More at link)

 

[Nilgiri]

@ekemenirtu continuing discussion here as it relates to India and larger GDP concepts solely (let us drop comparison with any other country):

There could be much simpler explanations.

Hot money flowing in to more established markets.

When were first Indian stock exchanges established?

You are right about the hot money flow. But you can normally account for that by looking at the last 10 year average to factor in swings etc. Also it is again heavily influenced by capital market reform and ease of doing business as a "tier"....so it may be more relevant to compare within closer bounds in such rankings w.r.t something like market cap:

Ease of doing business index - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

But the ranking w.r.t this is of course determined by govt policy and implementation...so again there are conclusions w.r.t govt efficacy.

Not sure about constant dollars. What does that have to do with consumption or inflation?

Constant dollars are related to PPP concept. They both do away with inflation that accumulates in "current dollars" (for whatever reason) and try to gauge the actual physical GDP better.

"Constant dollars" does this by:

Taking the local currency GDP (of the current year)----> applying inflation deflator relative to a reference year (say 2011 which seems to be popular) ----> apply USD exchange rate of 2011

This is of course imperfect method given exchange rate changes...but the argument being made for many developing countries is that given trade/investment ratio is quite considerably low % of GDP to begin with, its the actual inflation intrinsic within the economy that is the larger driving force for useful consumption.

PPP has the same underlying rationale, it uses a more extensive price comparison matrix and sampling.

=============

BTW I agree overall with rest of the points you made (especially that nothing is perfect, just varying degrees of relevance which can be debated and analysed further).

There is of course no complete absolute reference when using statistics. But we come up with likelihoods, confidence intervals and also deductive process (say if A is claimed to be same as B.....and they are made up of A1, A2, A3.....and equivalently B1 B2 B3.....we can look at those underlying constituents to see if the A=B hypothesis validity...within some bound of confidence helped by there being a lot more constituent units compared to say their aggregate).

 

[Madokafc]

Guys the deal was ,
No country bashing
No leader bashing
No peope bashing
After reviewing this thread,
You do not have comparable countries in economics,size,military,population etc so,we dont get this and what we dont want we will eventually delete.
You guys want another PDF?
That is unacceptable!
Either we respect each other and act as gentleman or we respect each other and act as gentlemen.
No more debat,comparison threads involving these three countries in any way.
We are all human so stop the bs.
There is no reasonable explanation for this thread,it will be deleted in 24 hours.
Btw,most of us none Indian,Pakistani or Bangladeshi have been on international forums for many years now,we know you,even in real life many of us have friends from your countries.
You are no strangers to us.

@Kaptaan @Nilgiri @Bilal9 @VCheng @Saiyan0321 @Yankeestani @DalalErMaNodi @Micheal Corleone @rainmaker @Bilal9 @ekemenirtu and all others.
Written all the names of this thread.

And guys,what do you guys think of this?
@Vergennes @Cabatli_53 @Webslave @KAL-EL @Joe Shearer @Waz @Test7 @xenon5434 @#comcom @500 @Predator @Kartal1 @Sinan @Signalian @Agha Sher @AmirIGM @Amun @Dante80 @Costin84 @dBSPL @Deliorman @Indos @Hexciter @Huelague @kaykay @Isa Khan @KKF 2.0 @Levina @Lucifer_Decoy @Luwian @Madokafc @Milspec @Pakistani Nationalist @Paro @Numberone @Olcayto @Philip the Arab @Quasar @Rajaraja Chola @Ronin @Saithan @Salmanov @Stimpy75 @suryakiran @Tariq @tanveer666 @Timur @UkroTurk

Surely, South Asia aka Sub Continent is performing under their real potential, severely. The likes of Indonesia, South Korea, Vietnam and China literally and actually had almost nothing compared to the South Asia when the British left in 1950 period, when almost all of China provinces is being in rubble and ruins after their great civil war and Japanese devastating occupation campaign or South Korean doesn't even have drinking water for their population when the coalition army finally put the Korean War on ceasefire mode in 1953 and left the country far below any poorer Subsaharan African nation or when Indonesia cities is in ruin and the rest of population living subsistence depend on jungle to provide protection and other necessities after war of independence and civil war troughout 1950 decades and series of natural disaster or when Vietnam literally suffered THE MOST HEAVIEST BOMBING CAMPAIGN ever waged by humanity and they back miraculously to this day. South Asia/Sub Continent had many flaw at government and society level thus it was left behind by their peer to this day

 

[Nilgiri]

Surely, South Asia aka Sub Continent is performing under their real potential, severely. The likes of Indonesia, South Korea, Vietnam and China literally and actually had almost nothing compared to the South Asia when the British left in 1950 period, when almost all of China provinces is being in rubble and ruins after their great civil war and Japanese devastating occupation campaign or South Korean doesn't even have drinking water for their population when the coalition army finally put the Korean War on ceasefire mode in 1953 and left the country far below any poorer Subsaharan African nation or when Indonesia cities is in ruin and the rest of population living subsistence depend on jungle to provide protection and other necessities after war of independence and civil war troughout 1950 decades and series of natural disaster or when Vietnam literally suffered THE MOST HEAVIEST BOMBING CAMPAIGN ever waged by humanity and they back miraculously to this day. South Asia/Sub Continent had many flaw at government and society level thus it was left behind by their peer to this day

If you would like we can continue this subject elsewhere (EDIT: replies moved, please continue as you want)

If we are going to get into the 20th century inheritance and claim the British left things super great,

It is not that straightforward to under-appreciate the effects (immediate scale of loss and long term psychological) of:

-1943 Bengal famine (and the deliberate UK policies regarding this)
-Other famines (you will notice these stopped after independence unlike China which manufactured a gargantuan one for little reason)
- Massive sustained de-industrialisation of India over a century or more by the British
- Massive sustained de-education (literacy rate was 18% or so at independence)
- Massive sustained wealth transfer by captive market related to above 2
- Partition and the slaughter there and psyche left by that for political exploitation
- 1971

We can also do an IND vs INA comparison if you desire...and a detailed analysis on what the numbers and rakings are for things of relevance.

I wouldn't call it "left behind" when it comes to India case with Indonesia. Maybe for the other 2 major south asian countries....but they have their unique reasons why they are further behind.

 

[Gary]

If you would like we can continue this subject elsewhere.

If we are going to get into the 20th century inheritance and claim the British left things super great,

It is not that straightforward to under-appreciate the effects (immediate scale of loss and long term psychological) of:

-1943 Bengal famine (and the deliberate UK policies regarding this)
-Other famines (you will notice these stopped after independence unlike China which manufactured a gargantuan one for little reason)
- Massive sustained de-industrialisation of India over a century or more by the British
- Massive sustained de-education (literacy rate was 18% or so at independence)
- Massive sustained wealth transfer by captive market related to above 2
- Partition and the slaughter there and psyche left by that for political exploitation
- 1971

We can also do an IND vs INA comparison if you desire...and a detailed analysis on what the numbers and rakings are for things of relevance.

I wouldn't call it "left behind" when it comes to India case with Indonesia. Maybe for the other 2 major south asian countries....but they have their unique reasons why they are further behind.

I would also suggest the thread is just locked to @T-123456

what about trade between the India and Pakistan???

does both country enmity have any real effect between trade of two countries???

 

[Nilgiri]

does both country enmity have any real effect between trade of two countries???

Yes severely. There is lot of layers to unpack here on that.

Immediate ones are:

1) The accumulated cost and impact of having to import from other countries what we could more readily import from each other. (Long term impact over many decades now)

2) The circuitous trade of what has key demand drive to overcome (1) anyway having to go through UAE etc. This can be investigated by further looking into say Indian export profile to UAE and Pakistan import profile from UAE. A large portion of this "hidden" trade could be done directly...and save costs on logistics. (Immediate current impact). There was once a number of threads in PDF about the Karachi import cartels etc regarding this matter and impact on say Pakistan price levels.

3) Future impact is basically expansion effects of 1 and 2 continuing....and metastasizing to say Indian manufacturing expansion (given say Indian automobile and transport sector could potentially be a way for Pakistan to leverage development of its own sector, like what Bangladeshi has been starting). But instead Pakistan is stuck with oligarch cartels that are not interested in competition and dynamism.

Then there is also lot of cultural contact, tourism, services trade that is basically nipped in the bud and prevented from happening....especially if you consider prevalent Indian soft cultural consumption by Pakistan. Also the missed opportunities regarding non-monetary matters like confidence building and trust when you trade and interact more (and leave politics aside etc)...and the hard savings this can translate when it comes to physical aspects (conflict, military budgets, war).

Nowhere else in world does there exist two very large population countries not trading to the level found here....so nowhere else in world really has the same opportunity cost to reference with it. It is unique situation.

 

[Indos]

Inside Modi government's blueprint for giving India its own Yale, Oxford and Harvard

Bureaucracy may be the main stumbling block for foreign universities, along with difficulties in acquiring land, academic staff and adequate infra. The govt didnt specify what incentives India will offer to attract foreign universities, except that institutions, which are required to operate...

economictimes.indiatimes.com

Modi’s government is pushing to overhaul India’s heavily regulated education sector to woo nearly 7,50,000 students who spend about $15 billion each year pursuing degrees overseas, Education Minister Ramesh Pokhriyal ‘Nishank’ said in written responses to questions.

(more at link)

That number is very big, do you believe it ?

Do you think most of those students studying overseas come back to India or stay in Western countries and change citizenship ?

 

[Nilgiri]

That number is very big, do you believe it ?

750,000 in total sounds about right. There are about 200,000 Indian students studying in US alone.

So add Europe, Canada, Australia etc and then rest of world, I would say it would be around that figure.

It is of course total number studying (say 4 year program) rather than number leaving each year to study which would some fraction of that.

Do you think most of those students studying overseas come back to India or stay in Western countries and change citizenship ?

Most would stay....get residency and then maybe citizenship depending on their career. Then they get work experience and career experience and remit some earnings back to India too.

This is overall what happens, given India for long time did not have the capacity to absorb their skills and give them the same salary for it that the West could....so at least this way India gets some earning of its best talent and also developed a large capable, wealthy (30 million strong) diaspora (this also has helped geopolitically).

Increasingly now there is reverse brain drain too, where Indian diaspora increasingly return or help to fund startups or join Indian corporates in new, growing sectors. Philippines has studied Indian trend in this paper sometimes known as "Reverse Brain Drain":

Boosting Growth Through Reverse Brain Drain: India’s Know-how | Foreign Service Institute

www.fsi.gov.ph

This is value addition in a way since these folks got career and industrial experience in West that they would not have got at the time in India if they stayed back then, so they are in effect returning "with interest" you can say.

The large part that will help to establish this trend even more are things like ease of doing business like I gave before:

Ease of doing business index - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

As you can see as recently as 2015, India was ranked as bad as 142nd (worse than Uganda then).

As of 2020, in just 5 years time, it is now ranked 63rd...just few ranks below Italy.

This has been major accomplishment of this govt (they are pushing to get in top 50 ASAP) and we will see good results of this push in this decade materialising I think.

 

[Madokafc]

750,000 in total sounds about right. There are about 200,000 Indian students studying in US alone.

So add Europe, Canada, Australia etc and then rest of world, I would say it would be around that figure.

It is of course total number studying (say 4 year program) rather than number leaving each year to study which would some fraction of that.




Most would stay....get residency and then maybe citizenship depending on their career. Then they get work experience and career experience and remit some earnings back to India too.

This is overall what happens, given India for long time did not have the capacity to absorb their skills and give them the same salary for it that the West could....so at least this way India gets some earning of its best talent and also developed a large capable, wealthy (30 million strong) diaspora (this also has helped geopolitically).

Increasingly now there is reverse brain drain too, where Indian diaspora increasingly return or help to fund startups or join Indian corporates in new, growing sectors. Philippines has studied Indian trend in this paper sometimes known as "Reverse Brain Drain":

Boosting Growth Through Reverse Brain Drain: India’s Know-how | Foreign Service Institute

www.fsi.gov.ph

This is value addition in a way since these folks got career and industrial experience in West that they would not have got at the time in India if they stayed back then, so they are in effect returning "with interest" you can say.

The large part that will help to establish this trend even more are things like ease of doing business like I gave before:

Ease of doing business index - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

As you can see as recently as 2015, India was ranked as bad as 142nd (worse than Uganda then).

As of 2020, in just 5 years time, it is now ranked 63rd...just few ranks below Italy.

This has been major accomplishment of this govt (they are pushing to get in top 50 ASAP) and we will see good results of this push in this decade materialising I think.

Indian and Pakistan student who study overseas is notorious for their willingness and eagerness to adopt their newhome countries instead going back to their homeland, especially one who study in UK, US and other European western countries. This fact is almost the same with China and Vietnam cases. Don't know if it all about culture and so on, what i am related there is other society like Japan who in the past when they are still being poor rarely prefer to settled at the more developed countries and even the slightest discrimination they are suffered is enough to made them back to their homeland and turning those tales into long term story being told for generations.

 

[ekemenirtu]

Surely, South Asia aka Sub Continent is performing under their real potential, severely. The likes of Indonesia, South Korea, Vietnam and China literally and actually had almost nothing compared to the South Asia when the British left in 1950 period, when almost all of China provinces is being in rubble and ruins after their great civil war and Japanese devastating occupation campaign or South Korean doesn't even have drinking water for their population when the coalition army finally put the Korean War on ceasefire mode in 1953 and left the country far below any poorer Subsaharan African nation or when Indonesia cities is in ruin and the rest of population living subsistence depend on jungle to provide protection and other necessities after war of independence and civil war troughout 1950 decades and series of natural disaster or when Vietnam literally suffered THE MOST HEAVIEST BOMBING CAMPAIGN ever waged by humanity and they back miraculously to this day. South Asia/Sub Continent had many flaw at government and society level thus it was left behind by their peer to this day

Vietnam or Indonesia are not too far ahead or behind South Asia in most development indicators.

Maldives, Bhutan or Sri Lanka are probably more developed than Indonesia or Vietnam.

China was not as poor or backward as you seem to insinuate. It could not have been so. Otherwise, they could not have pushed back USA and 16 countries' alliance out of today's North Korea - way back in the 1950s.

Korea and Taiwan were industrialized during Japanese colonial era. Afterwards, during the Vietnam war, South Korea's economy gained a new lease of life. Of course, South Korea sent over 100k "occupation troops" to Vietnam. Those troops were involved in various crimes there too. Ironically, Koreans accuse Japanese of certain crimes when Korea was under Japanese occupation and seek compensation very often for such Japanese past misdeeds.

Japanese economy, likewise, gained a new lease of life during the Korean war.

All of those countries were actively guided by their mentor - the United States - along the way too.

All in all, East Asia is certainly more advanced and developed than South Asia.

ASEAN is a different matter. Particularly, the likes of Indonesia or Vietnam can hardly make a case for claiming superiority over South Asia. South Asian expats or immigrants have proven themselves to be highly intelligent and capable individuals in developed countries outside theirs. Citizens of ASEAN are yet to do so.

Some South Asian countries, primarily India, are also certainly much bigger, more powerful, probably more advanced military, economic and technological powers than any ASEAN country - big or small.

 

[Indos]

ASEAN is a different matter. Particularly, the likes of Indonesia or Vietnam can hardly make a case for claiming superiority over South Asia. South Asian expats or immigrants have proven themselves to be highly intelligent and capable individuals in developed countries outside theirs. Citizens of ASEAN are yet to do so.

You cannot use this as a parameter for some short of assessment. Indonesian rarely become immigrant in other country. You will see very little Indonesian community living in the West, as Bangladeshi who live in Canada I think you have already known that. Only Vietnamese and Philipinos that I think like to immigrate, but the number is much lower than South Asian.

 

[ekemenirtu]

You cannot use this as a parameter for some short of assessment. Indonesian rarely become immigrant in other country. You will see very little Indonesian community living in the West, as Bangladeshi who live in Canada I think you have already known that. Only Vietnamese and Philipinos that I think like to immigrate, but the number is much lower than South Asian.

What makes you think I am a Bangladeshi?

It would be impudent of you to make accusations without evidence.

Indonesians and ethnic Malays are found in the Netherlands, South Africa, Sri Lanka, Madagascar and yet their achievements pale in comparison to the achievements of South Asian immigrants, primarily Indian immigrants. Indians, of course, outnumber the rest of South Asia - quite comfortably.

Vietnamese and Filipinos immigrants are also found in many developed countries. The current statuses of these three countries and the achievements of their immigrant communities does not allow anybody to view ASEAN countries, in more positive light compared to South Asian countries.

 

[Indos]

What makes you think I am a Bangladeshi?

It would be impudent of you to make accusations without evidence.

Indonesians and ethnic Malays are found in the Netherlands, South Africa, Sri Lanka, Madagascar and yet their achievements pale in comparison to the achievements of South Asian immigrants, primarily Indian immigrants. Indians, of course, outnumber the rest of South Asia - quite comfortably.

Vietnamese and Filipinos immigrants are also found in many developed countries. The current statuses of these three countries and the achievements of their immigrant communities does not allow anybody to view ASEAN countries, in more positive light compared to South Asian countries.

OK what ethnicity are you then ? I though you were Bangladeshi since you have intense debate with Nilgiry where your position during the debate is in favor of Bangladesh.

South Asian immigrants are mostly living in the center of the world, Western countries, so it is understandable to have many of them excel as professionals and intellectuals (mostly Indians), and it is quite reasonable by considering the huge number of South Asian immigrants living in the West. Nilgiri has just shown the example of huge Indian students who are in majority dont come back.

Indonesian ethnic live in Netherlands are not Malays, mostly Christian Maluccan whose ancestor sided with Dutch during the war of independence, the number is not many. The most immigrant from Indonesia in the Netherland are Dutch ethnic or mixed blood Dutch Indonesian (Christian) who left the country after Indonesia gain its independence in 1949. There are 500.000 excodust of people. They have become entirely Westernized for the second generation and just considered as Dutch by the society due to marriage. I also have acquaintance from Dutch who still has Indonesian blood, but he just appears like most White people phisically. They dont consider themselves as Indonesian although they will acknowledge they have Indonesian blood. In statistic they are just considered as Dutch ethnic.

Indonesian in Srilanka and Madagaskar are sent by Dutch as worker, not in their consent to live there, it was a forced immigration. I dont think the number are many, and I believe you dont follow what is happening there in term of Indonesian ethnic achievements, neither do I.

Philippino is actually quite successful in US, and it is the favorite place for Philippino to migrate since US has colonized them for some times and has more liberal immigration law then the rest of western world.

 

[ekemenirtu]

OK what ethnicity are you then ? I though you were Bangladeshi since you have intense debate with Nilgiry where your position during the debate is in favor of Bangladesh.

South Asian immigrants are mostly living in the center of the world, Western countries, so it is understandable to have many of them excel as professionals and intellectuals (mostly Indians), and it is quite reasonable by considering the huge number of South Asian immigrants living in the West. Nilgiri has just shown the example of huge Indian students who are in majority dont come back.

Indonesian ethnic live in Netherlands are not Malays, mostly Christian Maluccan whose ancestor sided with Dutch during the war of independence, the number is not many. The most immigrant from Indonesia in the Netherland are Dutch ethnic or mixed blood Dutch Indonesian (Christian) who left the country after Indonesia gain its independence in 1959. There are 500.000 excodust of people. They have become entirely Westernized for the second generation and just considered as Dutch by the society due to marriage. I also have acquaintance from Dutch who still has Indonesian blood, but he just appears like most White people phisically. They dont consider themselves as Indonesian although they will acknowledge they have Indonesian blood. In statistic they are just considered as Dutch ethnic.

Indonesian in Srilanka and Madagaskar are sent by Dutch as worker, not in their consent to live there, it was a forced immigration. I dont think the number are many, and I believe you dont follow what is happening there in term of Indonesian ethnic achievements, neither do I.

Philippino is actually quite successful in US, and it is the favorite place for Philippino to migrate since US has colonized them for some times and has more liberal immigration law then the rest of western world.

Let us not derail the thread.

In summary, Indonesians are not very successful anywhere in the world. Not in their own countries or outside.

South Asians, primarily Indians, are not very successful in their own countries but exceptional immigrants from these communities have outperformed immigrants from most countries of the world.

The same is true of Vietnamese and Filipinos. In that their performance both in their home countries and abroad are not superlative.

Therefore, Indonesia or Vietnam are not to be seen in any greater positive light in comparison to South Asia. India is already a greater power than any country in ASEAN. On top of that, Pakistan and Bangladesh are each individually almost as big as Indonesia. Given their longer histories, civilizations and culture, one might be tempted to think Pakistan with its nuclear weapons is also a potentially greater power than any member of ASEAN.

Bangladesh, not as strategically significant as its two older "brothers" - if I might call them - with a military mostly subservient to India and the USA, if I am not mistaken, will probably still be able to outshine most ASEAN countries. At worst, Bangladesh will be able to give Vietnam, Indonesia or Philippines a good run for their money.

I understand that Bangladesh is the "weakest link" in that argument and that may have prompted you to accuse me of being a Bangladeshi. It would be impudent of you to do so in the future.

I have had discussions, rather than arguments, with multiple members here. Those discussions would have clearly shown that I did not oppose India or side with India all the time.

I did not oppose or side with multiple Bangladeshi members either, as my discussion history in the forum can attest to.

Differences of opinion, exhibited in a civilized manner, can be appreciated.

In summary, there is ample proof that East Asia is considerably more developed than South Asia today and it will probably remain the case in the next few decades. However, there is no proof that ASEAN countries like Vietnam, Indonesia or Philippines are in any way, shape or form substantially more developed than South Asian countries. There is no indication of those 3 ASEAN members' greater potential for development, either, given the performances of their citizens at home or abroad when compared to citizens of South Asia.

 

[kaykay]

Indian forex reserves at 568.5 billion USD. Up by over 7.7 billion USD over last week.

 

[Madokafc]

Let us not derail the thread.

In summary, Indonesians are not very successful anywhere in the world. Not in their own countries or outside.

South Asians, primarily Indians, are not very successful in their own countries but exceptional immigrants from these communities have outperformed immigrants from most countries of the world.

The same is true of Vietnamese and Filipinos. In that their performance both in their home countries and abroad are not superlative.

Therefore, Indonesia or Vietnam are not to be seen in any greater positive light in comparison to South Asia. India is already a greater power than any country in ASEAN. On top of that, Pakistan and Bangladesh are each individually almost as big as Indonesia. Given their longer histories, civilizations and culture, one might be tempted to think Pakistan with its nuclear weapons is also a potentially greater power than any member of ASEAN.

Bangladesh, not as strategically significant as its two older "brothers" - if I might call them - with a military mostly subservient to India and the USA, if I am not mistaken, will probably still be able to outshine most ASEAN countries. At worst, Bangladesh will be able to give Vietnam, Indonesia or Philippines a good run for their money.

I understand that Bangladesh is the "weakest link" in that argument and that may have prompted you to accuse me of being a Bangladeshi. It would be impudent of you to do so in the future.

I have had discussions, rather than arguments, with multiple members here. Those discussions would have clearly shown that I did not oppose India or side with India all the time.

I did not oppose or side with multiple Bangladeshi members either, as my discussion history in the forum can attest to.

Differences of opinion, exhibited in a civilized manner, can be appreciated.

In summary, there is ample proof that East Asia is considerably more developed than South Asia today and it will probably remain the case in the next few decades. However, there is no proof that ASEAN countries like Vietnam, Indonesia or Philippines are in any way, shape or form substantially more developed than South Asian countries. There is no indication of those 3 ASEAN members' greater potential for development, either, given the performances of their citizens at home or abroad when compared to citizens of South Asia.

Lol, South Asia is by their HDI achievement had clearly showed US who at the lead. Indonesian and other ASEAN communities by large is not fond to migrate to even the more developed countries, you can see the number is fairly small for their large population, Vietnam is special case as they are mostly forced migrant with the fall of Hanoi at the end of Vietnam war. To said the South Asian is more competitive when one looking at their marginal achievement as a country is actually a joke itself.