India Indian General Missile and Guided Munition Archive

[Hari Sud]

There is a need to build a hypersonic missile based on highly accurate Brahmos missile. The US congressional submission by a top US commander a year back said that India is three years away from hypersonic missile development. I hope he is right. We need this critical demonstrator to let all Chinese, US and Pakistanis know that we are making progress.

 

[Baryshx]

There is a need to build a hypersonic missile based on highly accurate Brahmos missile. The US congressional submission by a top US commander a year back said that India is three years away from hypersonic missile development. I hope he is right. We need this critical demonstrator to let all Chinese, US and Pakistanis know that we are making progress.

I wouldn't be surprised if Russia or China helps Pakistan with this soon, because the kind of place the world is. The closer you get to America, the closer others will get to others.

 

[Hari Sud]

I wouldn't be surprised if Russia or China helps Pakistan with this soon, because the kind of place the world is. The closer you get to America, the closer others will get to others.

‘Wrong conclusion….. Pakistan has moved back into US orbit and India has moved away. This will last another 5 to 10 years. Pakistan is not technically competent enough to absorb technology including hypersonic technology with very poor technical base. They need everything ready made and then they can paint it with their own Color’s and call it their own.

 

[Zapper]

I wouldn't be surprised if Russia or China helps Pakistan with this soon, because the kind of place the world is. The closer you get to America, the closer others will get to others.

pakistan has always been US's lap dog despite the influence and clout China bought with it's CPEC and other investments. It is pretty evident even among pakistanis that the current political scenario or regime change is influenced by US's interests.

As for hypersonic tech, it's still at a very nascent stage with the US itself having multiple failed tests. China said it tested and exhibited few models like the DF-17 during parades but there's no real evidence of them perfecting it nor showcasing an operational version. I'd say Russia is relatively ahead on this front.

Secondly, China just wouldn't handout such critical tech to an almost bankrupt country like pakistan...let alone Russia. As @Hari Sud pointed out, pak doesn't have the technical capability to absorb such tech nor is pak a reliable partner. Most of Chinese weapons systems in pakistan's arsenal are manufactured in China end-to-end. Majority of JF-17's components including the entire fuselage, wings, tail etc are all produced in China and exported as shippable kits for pakistan to assemble. Our Su-30MKI probably has more Indian content

 

[Afif]

pakistan has always been US's lap dog despite the influence and clout China bought with it's CPEC and other investments. It is pretty evident even among pakistanis that the current political scenario or regime change is influenced by US's interests.

As for hypersonic tech, it's still at a very nascent stage with the US itself having multiple failed tests. China said it tested and exhibited few models like the DF-17 during parades but there's no real evidence of them perfecting it nor showcasing an operational version. I'd say Russia is relatively ahead on this front.

Secondly, China just wouldn't handout such critical tech to an almost bankrupt country like pakistan...let alone Russia. As @Hari Sud pointed out, pak doesn't have the technical capability to absorb such tech nor is pak a reliable partner. Most of Chinese weapons systems in pakistan's arsenal are manufactured in China end-to-end. Majority of JF-17's components including the entire fuselage, wings, tail etc are all produced in China and exported as shippable kits for pakistan to assemble. Our Su-30MKI probably has more Indian content

As far as i know around 60 percent of j17 block 1 and 2 is manufactured in pakistan.
And if I remamber correctly They did export it few years ago to myanmar.

CAC/PAC JF-17 Thunder - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I won't be so skeptical about chinese pakistan cooperation. I mean there has been rumors that chinese even shared the nuclear warhead design with pakistan. So I wouldn't count anything out.
And also, for china it seems that, it doesn't matter if pakistan goes bankrupt or not they keep investing strategically in that country.

And for chinese hypersonic capability itself, it seems that, indians don't want to believe china have operational hypersonic capability.
Which is funny because, in 2022 the pentagon and most of the us security think tanks seems to think that df17 is already operational in initial numbers and pose a credible threat.

 

[Zapper]

As far as i know around 60 percent of j17 block 1 and 2 is manufactured in pakistan.
And if I remamber correctly They did export it few years ago to myanmar.

CAC/PAC JF-17 Thunder - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I won't be so skeptical about chinese pakistan cooperation. I mean there has been rumors that chinese even shared the nuclear warhead design with pakistan. So I wouldn't count anything out.
And also, for china it seems that, it doesn't matter if pakistan goes bankrupt or not they keep investing strategically in that country.

And for chinese hypersonic capability itself, it seems that, indians don't want to believe china have operational hypersonic capability.
Which is funny because, in 2022 the pentagon and most of the us security think tanks seems to think that df17 is already operational in initial numbers and pose a credible threat.

Seems like you've spent way too much time on the green forum and your source is wiki!! Assembling an AC doesn't equate to manufacturing

The entirety of design, development and flight testing of J-17 (all blocks) are done in China. I doubt if pak even has access to the source codes

View attachment 48658

This is how PAC -Kamra receives their kits - similar to CKD kits for automobiles which are then loaded onto their respective jigs to be assembled/integrated with the necessary sub-systems received as part of these kits

View attachment 48659
View attachment 48660

The JF has been exported to Myanmar and Nigeria - both these countries were looking for an affordable fighter jet and China has significant clout and presence in these countries. It's a no brainer their influence worked and I can only pity your ignorance if you actually think these exports were due to pakistan's lobbying

I won't be so skeptical about chinese pakistan cooperation. I mean there has been rumors that chinese even shared the nuclear warhead design with pakistan. So I wouldn't count anything out.
And also, for china it seems that, it doesn't matter if pakistan goes bankrupt or not they keep investing strategically in that country.

The way pak obtained their nuclear capabilities has dubious claims with both NK and China having some role to play. I agree China will continue to support pak to keep India at bay but not to the point where they share their most critical/advanced tech. They might definitely offer the platform but not ToT as evident from the recent inductions of chinese platforms into pak's arsenal

And for chinese hypersonic capability itself, it seems that, indians don't want to believe china have operational hypersonic capability.
Which is funny because, in 2022 the pentagon and most of the us security think tanks seems to think that df17 is already operational in initial numbers and pose a credible threat.

Most of China's tech is reverse engineered or bought from Russian systems including their missile tech. After the fall of Soviet Union, while our dumb top brass was buying Russian weaponary, China was smart enough to hire Russian engineers & scientists. There is a reason why China is still struggling to develop an engine or the purchase of Su-35s despite J-20 being at an advanced stage. China's hypersonic missiles can be expected to achieve full operational capabilities only after Russia

 

[Afif]

Seems like you've spent way too much time on the green forum and your source is wiki!! Assembling an AC doesn't equate to manufacturing

The entirety of design, development and flight testing of J-17 (all blocks) are done in China. I doubt if pak even has access to the source codes

View attachment 48658

This is how PAC -Kamra receives their kits - similar to CKD kits for automobiles which are then loaded onto their respective jigs to be assembled/integrated with the necessary sub-systems received as part of these kits

View attachment 48659 View attachment 48660

The JF has been exported to Myanmar and Nigeria - both these countries were looking for an affordable fighter jet and China has significant clout and presence in these countries. It's a no brainer their influence worked and I can only pity your ignorance if you actually think these exports were due to pakistan's lobbying



The way pak obtained their nuclear capabilities has dubious claims with both NK and China having some role to play. I agree China will continue to support pak to keep India at bay but not to the point where they share their most critical/advanced tech. They might definitely offer the platform but not ToT as evident from the recent inductions of chinese platforms into pak's arsenal


Most of China's tech is reverse engineered or bought from Russian systems including their missile tech. After the fall of Soviet Union, while our dumb top brass was buying Russian weaponary, China was smart enough to hire Russian engineers & scientists. There is a reason why China is still struggling to develop an engine or the purchase of Su-35s despite J-20 being at an advanced stage. China's hypersonic missiles can be expected to achieve full operational capabilities only after Russia

Look! I don't know what green forum is! but as you mentioned it i will pay a visit.

It has been widely reported that, pakistan manufacture ( not assemble ) 60 percent of jf17. And that's why i mentioned it.

Unfortunately, i can't access your attachments.

And there are some ToT happened. For examale, the hangor class submarine. Four of which supposed to be built in pakistan.
last but not the least, what is expected is not always what actually happens. ( however, Russian avangand is already operational ) And not all the Chinese missile are based on russian tech! specially not the new ones. And there is variety of them already in service now. and df17 is one of them.

 

[Zapper]

Look! I don't know what green forum is! but as you mentioned it i will pay a visit.

It has been widely reported that, pakistan manufacture ( not assemble ) 60 percent of jf17. And that's why i mentioned it.

Unfortunately, i can't access your attachments.

And there are some ToT happened. For examale, the hangor class submarine. Four of which supposed to be built in pakistan.
last but not the least, what is expected is not always what actually happens. ( however, Russian avangand is already operational ) And not all the Chinese missile are based on russian tech! specially not the new ones. And there is variety of them already in service now. and df17 is one of them.

These were the attachments I posted.

Quite similar to our Su-30MKI model. Overtime, we indigenized several sub-systems and non-critical components due to Russian inability to supply spares

I've seen videos of Russian hypersonic missiles...maybe you can post a few chinese tests of launches and hitting targets. Even Indian has a few missiles under development with finalized designs of the missile's airframe showcased at various defence expos including Brahmos hypersonic. China is definitely at an advanced stage even ahead of the US but there is no credible proof that they're attained full operational capability

 

[Nilgiri]

I wouldn't be surprised if Russia or China helps Pakistan with this soon, because the kind of place the world is. The closer you get to America, the closer others will get to others.

I don't know why you mention Russia here. Russia has taken full note of Pakistani munitions arriving to Ukraine side....likely as part of pandering by Pakistan establishment to the West for better chance of a favourable bailout (for their ruined economy and political landscape) this year.

You have to also remember there are limits to their relationship with China because of this, China has made it abundantly clear they will not bail out Pakistan (they said a clear NO multiple times now when Pakistan establishment grovelled openly and behind closed doors regarding CPEC MOU amounts being used in any capacity for current account finance that Pakistan desperately seeks).

It is in China's interest to punish Pakistan's establishment (esp as it has overnight leaned pro-US) for a while now as they hold all the cards in the one-way relationship....and cudgel them under this pressure to the straight and narrow path on entirely Chinese terms.

This is why Pakistan continually attempts to work something out with the IMF instead...it is under protest and desperation.

Its also why CPEC from the get go was debt-intensive white elephant style projects first (and factories only promised later, if Pakistan reduced itself to the client state on China's terms for this).

China wants to hollow Pakistan out to be something resembling a total North Korean patronage system.

Where military technology fits in this is anyone's guess (simply have to wait and see what transpires and what does not), nothing is guaranteed at all..... China has shown no interest in transferring any know how on crucial scaled things like radars, sensors and the like to Pakistan (which they also have limited ability to absorb anyway)....so hypersonic is also unlikely going forward if they are unwilling to bring more mundane things to fruition.

 

[Nilgiri]

There is a need to build a hypersonic missile based on highly accurate Brahmos missile. The US congressional submission by a top US commander a year back said that India is three years away from hypersonic missile development. I hope he is right. We need this critical demonstrator to let all Chinese, US and Pakistanis know that we are making progress.

The dedicated thread may be of use: https://defencehub.live/threads/indian-scramjet-and-hypersonic-programs.8379/

 

[iceream]

This is why Pakistan continually attempts to work something out with the IMF instead...it is under protest and desperation.

Its also why CPEC from the get go was debt-intensive white elephant style projects first (and factories only promised later, if Pakistan reduced itself to the client state on China's terms for thi

@niligiri bro you are wrong it's a broken elephant i have seen the growth of CPEC it will never be profitable it was supposed to be a transport corridor
so people think transport would turn them into Dubai
Gwadar is a dessert the road passes through a dessert and mountain no water or food in site it will never be sustainable
Aslo road transport is much worse than water transport
Factories or knowledge absorption was never on the menu

@Nilgiri

The most they could have gotten was some screwdriver giri of the components coming from the world and going to china and components from China going to the world
A transport corridor dosent need industries
The entire tibetian pleatau is a death trap for any cargo the cost would increase dramatically in bringing it from the palteau as more energy will be needed
Most Chinese population and factories is in beinjing thats on the other side of the country

 

[Zapper]

IN's ALT Shyena (Advanced Light Torpedo)

 

[Baryshx]

I don't know why you mention Russia here. Russia has taken full note of Pakistani munitions arriving to Ukraine side....likely as part of pandering by Pakistan establishment to the West for better chance of a favourable bailout (for their ruined economy and political landscape) this year.

You have to also remember there are limits to their relationship with China because of this, China has made it abundantly clear they will not bail out Pakistan (they said a clear NO multiple times now when Pakistan establishment grovelled openly and behind closed doors regarding CPEC MOU amounts being used in any capacity for current account finance that Pakistan desperately seeks).

It is in China's interest to punish Pakistan's establishment (esp as it has overnight leaned pro-US) for a while now as they hold all the cards in the one-way relationship....and cudgel them under this pressure to the straight and narrow path on entirely Chinese terms.

This is why Pakistan continually attempts to work something out with the IMF instead...it is under protest and desperation.

Its also why CPEC from the get go was debt-intensive white elephant style projects first (and factories only promised later, if Pakistan reduced itself to the client state on China's terms for this).

China wants to hollow Pakistan out to be something resembling a total North Korean patronage system.

Where military technology fits in this is anyone's guess (simply have to wait and see what transpires and what does not), nothing is guaranteed at all..... China has shown no interest in transferring any know how on crucial scaled things like radars, sensors and the like to Pakistan (which they also have limited ability to absorb anyway)....so hypersonic is also unlikely going forward if they are unwilling to bring more mundane things to fruition.

The view of the countries may change according to the period and the conjuncture, Pakistan may also become best friends with Russia tomorrow.

What they're saying is predictable, things that will happen normally. But Pakistan can devote everything to the acquisition of hypersonic missiles, as they did to acquire nuclear.

 

[Nilgiri]

@niligiri bro you are wrong it's a broken elephant i have seen the growth of CPEC it will never be profitable it was supposed to be a transport corridor
so people think transport would turn them into Dubai
Gwadar is a dessert the road passes through a dessert and mountain no water or food in site it will never be sustainable
Aslo road transport is much worse than water transport
Factories or knowledge absorption was never on the menu

@Nilgiri

The most they could have gotten was some screwdriver giri of the components coming from the world and going to china and components from China going to the world
A transport corridor dosent need industries
The entire tibetian pleatau is a death trap for any cargo the cost would increase dramatically in bringing it from the palteau as more energy will be needed
Most Chinese population and factories is in beinjing thats on the other side of the country

Looks like you have read a number of my posts in another forum

 

[Nilgiri]

The view of the countries may change according to the period and the conjuncture, Pakistan may also become best friends with Russia tomorrow.

What they're saying is predictable, things that will happen normally. But Pakistan can devote everything to the acquisition of hypersonic missiles, as they did to acquire nuclear.

Nothing is guaranteed simply by wanting something strong enough (it depends on your own strength, consistency and competence in the end)

I suggest you wait and see what happens to Pakistan's economy this decade first. The incompetence is reaching new proportions and consequences than ever before.

Large countries trust and part away crucial technology with smaller partners that fundamentally are able to take care of themselves first....and have consistent world partnership outlook + presence.

None of which Pakistan is illustrating (for some time now) compared to how it did before (in its already limited way).

There is reason for example why there is strong desire in Pakistan for nuclear triad completion (given India achieved this), but China will not provide SSBN as the relationship has neither the capacity nor has advanced to that level... (so why would hypersonics be given when it is apex level stuff still? compared to tons of things China could be doing with Pakistan already but chooses not to because of fundamental Pakistan incompetence and continued intransigence).

Pakistan going all out in the 1980s to achieve nuclear weapons tech in the first place for example came about due to intersection of many factors that provided a sweetspot to do it:

1) US and China detente (and Pakistan being recognised by both in playing a role for this) and thus both countries playing their part in helping Pakistan here (one CHIC-4 provider, one looking the other way)

2) Soviet Afghan war aiding the above.

3) Indian economy being anaemic and overall hard and soft power being quite limited as well.

These factors have all changed greatly. Pakistan establishment simply digs itself further each year in full patron client "for hire" stage with a feeble stagnant economy and role in polarised world of everyone else bulking up and leaving it behind further and further.

This is taking real consequences on Pakistani larger people view and tolerance towards their establishment as well btw....quite a spectacle to watch unfold each month now.

Russia will never add that to the burden its set for itself already.... and China will simply do a cost/benefit analysis of everything now that all it took was a small western back pat to get Pakistan to deliver munitions to Ukraine among other things turning against China in Pakistan's establishment right now on a relative dime.

 

[iceream]

Looks like you have read a number of my posts in another forum

Should I have not already told you am an avid reader of your posts both on this and other forum

 

[fire starter]

 

[fire starter]

 

[fire starter]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582774857598906372

 

[fire starter]

So it is filled with world most powerful non nuclear explosive CL 20.