Indonesia Indonesian Air Force, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Udara (TNI-AU)

Lordimperator

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What the hell is this...does this forum have the ability to block people I don't want to see? Or a function that calls for some mediator.
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there is report button for each post
 

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Windchime

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@urban mine , Do you know Boramae combat range with internal fuel alone and in almost clean configuration?
How is it compare to F35 (in term of combat range)?
There are no official numbers, but one could make an educated guess based on the internal fuel load (12k lbs) and the SFC of F414.
 

urban mine

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I don't know which part did I change any words, but when the KFX program started the South Koreans initially sought uncle Sam help for the development of the radar, they refused and SoKor decide to go develop their own. From the very start our involvement is to help finance the project and in return have the right to assemble 50 jets in return as well as the participation of our engineers as part of upskilling. This type of cooperation is all well with the last admin, but not quite with the current admin.

The jets we will receive will totally be equipped with the Korean developed radars (and its EO is actually Italian), but we don't really get the know how on those technologies.

That's right. Usually, the manufacturer says that IRST sells hardware, but not software. So Hanwha developed and integrated the software. I think we thought it would take too much time and money to develop hardware, so we wouldn't be able to meet the time we wanted. (Because F-4 and F-5 need to be replaced...)
 

Windchime

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I don't know which part did I change any words, but when the KFX program started the South Koreans initially sought uncle Sam help for the development of the radar, they refused and SoKor decide to go develop their own. From the very start our involvement is to help finance the project and in return have the right to assemble 50 jets in return as well as the participation of our engineers as part of upskilling. This type of cooperation is all well with the last admin, but not quite with the current admin.

The jets we will receive will totally be equipped with the Korean developed radars (and its EO is actually Italian), but we don't really get the know how on those technologies.

You should not forget that Indonesia is supposed to get a fixed work share of production of defined parts, one of them being airframe composites. Though currently the prototypes are being manufactured with parts sourced from Korea which would have otherwise been procured from Indonesia. I wouldn't need to explain the reasons why.

The EO is only partially European since the IRST software is developed by Hanwha in Korea. They've considered early on about developing IRST hardware on their own but decided that it would be more beneficial to simply procure the hardware from an external vendor. Also that twit is wrong about EW since the suite is completely newly developed by LIG.
 

AzeriTank

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I don't know which part did I change any words, but when the KFX program started the South Koreans initially sought uncle Sam help for the development of the radar, they refused and SoKor decide to go develop their own. From the very start our involvement is to help finance the project and in return have the right to assemble 50 jets in return as well as the participation of our engineers as part of upskilling. This type of cooperation is all well with the last admin, but not quite with the current admin.

The jets we will receive will totally be equipped with the Korean developed radars (and its EO is actually Italian), but we don't really get the know how on those technologies.

Thanks for the info, i knew that something was wrong there because it was too obvious.
 

urban mine

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@urban mine , Do you know Boramae combat range with internal fuel alone and in almost clean configuration?
How is it compare to F35 (in term of combat range)?
The F-35 is said to be more than 1,200 NM (2,220 KM) by the manufacturer (I don't know if it used an external fuel tank. I guess so)
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화면 캡처 2022-11-29 112213.jpg

KF-21 is said to be 1,550 nm / 2,900 km. However, I know that this is a ferry Range. Calculating internal and external fuels, it seems to come out at the level of 1,100 to 1,200 nm. Note that it may vary depending on the armed load. I don't know the exact combat range. At the time of development, the performance of kf-16U was assumed, so I think it is that much.
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In the case of the Super Hornet, which uses two f414 engines, it is 1,275 nm when operating with two AIM-9s without an external fuel tank. However, since Super Hornet's weight itself is heavier than KF-21, KF-21 will be more advantageous.
 
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Lordimperator

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here are the KFX/ IFX from Indodefence 2022 by DEFEND ID

some of the english tl:
3 points
1. preparation for manufacturing facilities : hanggar for composite production and the machineries. *will be commissioning in the future
2. development for expert personel: training for aerostructure composite.
3. become to be global supply chain components: wing and tail components, 50% from the global sales will be supplied by PTDI.

atleast those are the things disclosed by the DEFEND ID to public yesterday.
 
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Robiolastecc

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Ask this to the one who handle negotiation back in SBY administration. They were the one who signed the clause that 4 "teknologi inti" won't be included in ToT.
We already accept those terms before as we understand that our local industry wont be ready yet to support those core technologies, 20% share to get the know how to build a fighter aircraft, along with MRO and built some parts of the aircraft is understandable. Lets face it, it all start with a single AFK minister forgot to put the payment into budget in favor of his 100 millions militia visions, then instead of come clean and admit they started to play blame game and , one of it is south korea because that because of some trouble the development got delayed, resulting our engineers to be called back for several years, losing the chance to gain experience, ofc when the development continues but they still cant admit it nor pay it according to contract under guise of renegotiation, they start to shift it to someone else, in this case obviously previous admins as usual blamed for bad deals
 

Umigami

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How stealthy is the KFX? I've heard that the Koreans got a lot of help from LM on making the KFX stealthy. From the reports on air exercises from the US Air force it seems that 5th gen VLO aircraft absolutely dominate even advance 4th gen aircraft. I would be very wary of going up against 5th gen VLO aircraft in F-15EX and Rafale. And with China producing lots of J20s and developing the J31 for export and the US exporting F35 to other countries in the region 5th gen VLO aircraft will become much more widespread soon.
The KFX, especially when it gets the internal weapons bay, seems like a very good option since we are not getting the F35.
Someone make rough RCS calculation with minimal weaponry (just 4 meteors)

 

Gary

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This one here has been the most interesting part of any KFX news since many years ago. Unfortunately, it's been lacking in details.

Many questions like do we have to pay another $3.5 bil ($70m/jet) to the Koreans for this 50 jets?

Can we sell this 50 jets to other countries? Do we get 20% profit for each jet produced?

The Koreans plan to produce 120 jets until 2032, does it mean we'll get $1.7 bil from this alone?

etc
I believe we got to produce certain parts (tails, wings) and we also got the right to assemble 50 (now its 48) jets for our needs, this is why we place an order for up to 160 F414 jets back then to equip 50 airframes, possibly with spares. As for the profit, I don't follow much since the renegotiation, maybe some others could help.

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Umigami

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I believe we got to produce certain parts (tails, wings) and we also got the right to assemble 50 (now its 48) jets for our needs, this is why we place an order for up to 160 F414 jets back then to equip 50 airframes, possibly with spares. As for the profit, I don't follow much since the renegotiation, maybe some others could help.

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Source?
 

Madokafc

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Just follow the OEM routes lah, saving money and time

And it is not like' Indonesia getting to research their own BVR and complete airborne radar system in this decade, and getting different system from the main OEM is not easy thing to do. Just look at Malaysia MKM as example

Why people don't look for more generic, affordable and efficient solution ?
 
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schuimpjes

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Madokafc

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Indonesian Air Force future deployment and assets management, this is actually not far away from the previous MEF III goals, only there is some tweak here and there, especially in the exact type of assets they want to have.

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