Indonesia Indonesian Air Force, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Udara (TNI-AU)

Umigami

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Parry Brima

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200 engine?! It's too many for 33 jets.

1. Sell working engines to Indonesia.
2. Sell EEagle for scrap to US *Without responsible where they would end up next.

3. PROFIT

From 2018 Nikkei article (archive link at the bottom)

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Japan wants to sell old F-15s to US to fund F-35 purchases​

Washington considers reselling the used jets to Southeast Asian governments

GAKU SHIMADA and MASAYA KATO, Nikkei staff writers
December 24, 2018 02:00 JST
An F-15 jet takes off from a Self-Defense Forces base in Ibaraki Prefecture. Japan's oldest F-15s began service in the early 1980s.

An F-15 jet takes off from a Self-Defense Forces base in Ibaraki Prefecture. Japan's oldest F-15s began service in the early 1980s.

TOKYO -- The Japanese government is considering selling some F-15 jets to the U.S. to raise funds for purchases of cutting-edge F-35 stealth fighters, Nikkei has learned, with Washington in turn weighing the sale of those outdated planes to Southeast Asian countries.

Several Japanese officials have revealed that discussions are underway for what would be the nation's first sale of used defense equipment to the U.S. Tokyo sounded out Washington on the possibility of such a sale as part of negotiations to purchase 105 F-35 jets from the U.S. The two sides are trying to iron out such details as the number of F-15s to be sold and their prices.

By arranging such a sale with Washington, Tokyo hopes to quell public criticism of expanding defense spending amid efforts for fiscal consolidation. Turning to Washington would also help Japan, as it lacks experience in selling defense equipment to third countries.

Japan's roughly 200 F-15s form the core of the Air Self-Defense Force's air defense capabilities. About half the fleet has undergone modernizing overhauls, including updates to electronic equipment, but the 100 or so fighters being eyed for a sale are an older design that cannot receive the electronics upgrades. The government decided at a cabinet meeting last Tuesday to gradually swap these out for more capable F-35s.

The oldest of the F-15s were first deployed in the early 1980s. But even they can be kept in working condition if parts are replaced as needed.
Washington has told the Japanese side that it would consider selling the aircraft to nations with weak air forces. The arrangement would enable the U.S. to provide fighter jets to Southeast Asian nations at cut-rate prices as China expands its military presence in the South China Sea.

Japan's planned F-35 purchase was due in part to heavy pressure from U.S. President Donald Trump to narrow the wide bilateral trade imbalance by buying more American defense hardware. Tokyo hopes to appease Trump while using the F-15 sale to lower costs.

The Japanese government also judged that given its lack of experience in exporting defense equipment, it would be more prudent to work indirectly through the U.S., which has successfully sold arms across the globe, than to try to sell the fighters directly to a third country.

Japan barred exports of defense equipment for decades until 2014, when the cabinet laid out principles allowing them under certain conditions. It maintained a ban on exports to countries involved in armed conflict but permitted them when doing so contributes to Japanese security, for instance.

 

Gundala

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Almost half than Qatar dash 5, less than 12?
The aim is still 12 for UEA I believe. Tho we will never know if they include the maintenance program, parts, etc in this program until the deal is done.
Maybe they will put the all that in a different contract like we did back then? That number is viable numbers for 12 fighters with some training, parts and supporting equipment since we already have some of them from Qatar's contract.
 

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Which one better to serve Indonesian future loyal wingman squadrons? Kizilelma or Ghostbat?

Technically Ghostbat which is joint partnership between Australian government and Boeing should met the technical evaluation ...

But, I see much better prospect and friendly procedure for acquisition with Turkey as their interest and our interest doesnt met at any crossroad. This along with their more broad market among middle eastern countries and beyond which is a plus for the continuity of the program.

In my opinion, there is almost no need to further invest on Manned light attack aircraft or the likes and also attack helicopters (which is i am also already proposed years back before the advancement of current UCAV program worldwide has Made great stride and breakthrough) , such aircraft like M346 and F/A50 better to be solely worked as LIFT/Training roles and not beyond such roles.

Indonesian Armed Forces should working to improve their connectivity and BLOS capability, also their EW capability before trying to inducing such new capability into their arms.





For further notes, i do think Indonesia also should invest more on the research and development of unmanned aircraft program which is offer new broad opportunity to break the monopoly of established Giant Corporate in the field, but alas Indonesia still fall far behind in the vision and resulted in the current situation meanwhile Turkey Cleverly use the situation for their own benefit and interest.
 
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Gundala

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But, I see much better prospect and friendly procedure for acquisition with Turkey as their interest and our interest doesnt met at any crossroad
Couldnt agree more, we should think more in terms of strategic with in conjunction with geopolitics landscape.

As far as UAV R&D as national program I think the importance of UAV is already been acknowledge by the govt, the implementation is always the hardest part to colaborate all the "lembaga", institutions, "kementrian" to work in the sampe pattern or roadmap.
 

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What is your take If Indonesia joined FCAS program? Either as direct participant and as observer first.

As we all know Indonesia already joined KF21 program but it is technically still a fourth plus plus fighter generation and the supposed technological level is not much different from the other fourth and fifth generation fighter other Nations currently employed.

For future consideration (beyond 2035), Indonesia should take it seriously from now on and what kind of concrete way we can take today. And as FCAS is still at developing phase we can trying to leverage our participation and reap benefit preferable in form of research participation and industrial engineering.


Why FCAS?

First, the consortium so far happened to be Indonesian long time partner in Aero industry which is Spain, France and Germany which is Indonesia has considerable lobbying and connection there.

Second, they are trying to build something more advanced compared to even the F35, with the involvement of those three country with so many experience in Aero and Fighter design those target is actually quite achievable and the long time project would act as buffer for the frontier level technology to be matured.

Third, it would be logically an attempt for Indonesia to up the game, especially after Indonesian Air Force actually building much of their C4ISR infrastructure modelled after much of those western European country.
 

NEKO

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What is your take If Indonesia joined FCAS program? Either as direct participant and as observer first.

As we all know Indonesia already joined KF21 program but it is technically still a fourth plus plus fighter generation and the supposed technological level is not much different from the other fourth and fifth generation fighter other Nations currently employed.

For future consideration (beyond 2035), Indonesia should take it seriously from now on and what kind of concrete way we can take today. And as FCAS is still at developing phase we can trying to leverage our participation and reap benefit preferable in form of research participation and industrial engineering.


Why FCAS?

First, the consortium so far happened to be Indonesian long time partner in Aero industry which is Spain, France and Germany which is Indonesia has considerable lobbying and connection there.

Second, they are trying to build something more advanced compared to even the F35, with the involvement of those three country with so many experience in Aero and Fighter design those target is actually quite achievable and the long time project would act as buffer for the frontier level technology to be matured.

Third, it would be logically an attempt for Indonesia to up the game, especially after Indonesian Air Force actually building much of their C4ISR infrastructure modelled after much of those western European country.
Sure thing, if they allow us to join.

Its still unknown how FCAS will be like, I prefer something like UK-JP next gen fighter that will have a long range and can carry many missiles.

Hopefully the FCAS and Tempest will be delayed a bit and only started around 2030+ and we can join if allowed, so we already done participating in KFX program and also build all of our IF-21.
 

Madokafc

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Sure thing, if they allow us to join.

Its still unknown how FCAS will be like, I prefer something like UK-JP next gen fighter that will have a long range and can carry many missiles.

Hopefully the FCAS and Tempest will be delayed a bit and only started around 2030+ and we can join if allowed, so we already done participating in KFX program and also build all of our IF-21.

At least you can be an observer and bought the priority rights for purchase with some industrial involvement as kickback
 

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