Indonesia Indonesian Air Force, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Udara (TNI-AU)

[Windchime]

I really find it funny that we are to protest that we could not modify the KF-21 according to our whims when we don't really have the capability to do so.

Let's face it, we have a problem with this administration, especially in regards to kemenkeu and kemehan, most of the modern weapons you see now is the result of the last admin and its effort on MEF, while this admin is torpedoing any progress we have made. From the KFX, Sigma, Changbogo etc.

When Purnomo Yusgiantoro is still around, we're actually close to leave the program due to some issues but we still honor our commitment at the time. This time around I find it hard to justify ourselves when all this admin did is dragging around its feet.

Don't they have any analyst there to figure out if its best to exit now before getting kicked out of the project ?

So is it more of your typical "current gov hates previous gov and their projects" problem?

Like I've wrote on the other thread, the general understanding amongst Koreans was that the problems were more to do with political rivalry between Jokowi and Prabowo. Reading from your posts, that seems much less of a concern.

 

[Gary]

So is it more of your typical "current gov hates previous gov and their projects" problem?

Like I've wrote on the other thread, the general understanding amongst Koreans was that the problems were more to do with political rivalry between Jokowi and Prabowo. Reading from your posts, that seems much less of a concern.

Nope, its more new admin, new projects...

We actually had a good (albeit not perfect roadmap) for the arms industry from previous admin, and the roadmap is clear, the upskilling is clearly defined.

The SIGMA 10514 for example will be built in one to one replacement basis for the Yani's and our shipyards participation will increase per hull. Same with the ChangBogo's, which from the 3rd boats onwards will be step by step built here.

This admin insists that it knows better. It insist on starting from scratch once more. and now they don't have the money to walk the talk.

 

[Gary]

I believe the whole idea into entering the KF-X is more to do with upskilling our engineers on the design and assemble of fighter jets, and we expect too much with no clear roadmap on what to do.

 

[TechNamu]

Like I've wrote on the previous page, the purpose of the 5th prototype, which Indonesia is supposed to recieve, is to support the development of IF-X configuration. PTDI engineers will do the job with help from KAI.

Now, what exactly that is, is unknown for me. Maybe one of you guys can inform me on that part. I've heard that the plan to install refueling probe instead of flying boon receptor has been dropped by TNI but I'm not sure how credible such claim is. What I've also heard is that for IF-X a bigger drop tank would be certified, which sounds very reasonable to me.


There still is that space as seen in the footages of prototype bulkeheads and assembly process. More to be precise, that space is currently being intruded by gun ammo magazine and missile ejector launchers for the mraam(meteor).

When actually utilized for IWB, the magazine would shrink, effectively decreasing the ammo count. MELs would be replaced by other kind of MEL more akin to that of F-22 that is suitable for operation from the IWB.

Now, how they will fit in a fuel tank in there is a bit tricky for me. Though speaking purely from how much space there is, it seems plausible. A bigger problem would be the extra design work that would be required to compensate the shift of CoG and CoM.

Lastly, since this forum looks like the biggest english speaking forum with meaningful amounts of knowledgable Indonesian and Turkish military enthusiasts, I've been gathering quite a few infos from here. I'm glad to provide as well.

Anyway, KAI and PTDI have agreed to develop a special 480 gallon drop tank for IF-X rather than a standard 370 gallon drop tank for KF-21 and that alone should add additional 850 kg of fuel in combined and be able to increase the ferry range meanigfully.

 

[FPXAllen]

The latest status of drone Elang Hitam project: Mandek ga ada yg urusin

Started at 51 minutes mark

Sigh... So that will be,... *check list* the 1,473,887th projects which won't go further than the first prototype.

 

[chiphocks]

The latest status of drone Elang Hitam project: Mandek ga ad yg urusin

Started at 51 minutes mark. They've tried the first flight test last year but failed.

You media guys, do something to make this heboh as big as you can and hurt the fragile feeling of those overproud 'buatan anak bangsa' boys so that they'll make ruckus and gain big attention.

Sigh... So that will be,... *check list* the 1,473,887th projects which won't go further than the first prototype.

what is the possible cause of this??
budget? like usual?? or is it something technical??

 

[chiphocks]

Basically not a priority project and thus got no resources.

weird...
N235, R80 then this???

looks like there are many things that related to PT DI is not a priority anymore

 

[TechNamu]

Sigh... So that will be,... *check list* the 1,473,887th projects which won't go further than the first prototype.

Korean understands your pain, my friend. KUS-FS (Korean MUAV) made a maiden flight in 2011 and was only approved by the Korean army in May, 2022 after 11 years of delay. Weapon integration has not even finalised (It is still strictly a surveillance aerial vehicle).

 

[FPXAllen]

what is the possible cause of this??
budget? like usual?? or is it something technical??

Basically not a priority project and thus got no resources.

So much for this:

Pada 2020, program PUNA MALE menjadi salah satu program prioritas strategis nasional sebagaimana ditetapkan dalam Peraturan Presiden Nomor 109 Tahun 2020.

BPPT dan Konsorsium Siap Terbangkan PUNA Elang Hitam

Peringatan Harketnas 2021, BPPT bersama Konsorium mengadakan virtual open house PUNA Elang Hitam, dimana pesawat nir awak itu akan siap diterbangkan akhir 2021.

www.cnnindonesia.com

 

[Umigami]

Jakarta cancels and scales back major defence contracts as raw materials crisis deepens.

The ministry of defence has embarked on an ambitious defence acquisition programme but is struggling to find the funding to honour the contracts it has signed. Airbus, which was set to deliver two A400M by the end of 2021, is the latest company to bear the brunt of this situation. Other deals could also be affected over the coming months as the price of raw materials soars.

INDONESIA : Jakarta cancels and scales back major defence contracts as raw materials crisis deepens - 12/07/2022 - Intelligence Online

The ministry of defence has embarked on an ambitious defence acquisition programme but is struggling to find the funding to honour the contracts it has signed. Airbus, which was set to deliver two - 7/12/2022

www.intelligenceonline.com

Meanwhile

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547821488304037890

 

[Gary]

This is the kind of arms industry that Indos has full faith on.

 

[FPXAllen]

Korean understands your pain, my friend. KUS-FS (Korean MUAV) made a maiden flight in 2011 and was only approved by the Korean army in May, 2022 after 11 years of delay. Weapon integration has not even finalised (It is still strictly a surveillance aerial vehicle).

Thanks. That's a bit of relief.

Sadly, this kind of thing has been happening forever here - hence the joke "country of 1000 prototypes" in the old Indonesian military enthusiast forum.

 

[FPXAllen]

In my opinion, it seems like the failed first flight in 2021 is the final chance to prove the project has something to offer. Maybe the result of the usual old "want immediate result/achievement in short term that we can use to get brownie political points from the public" mindset that caused our research industry lagged behind.

Someone of high position in the new BRIN intentionally messed this project with that reasoning.

Or that someone or some people have succeeded to push their products to be bought instead.

 

[NEKO]

The latest status of drone Elang Hitam project: Mandek ga ad yg urusin

Started at 51 minutes mark. They've tried the first flight test last year but failed.

You media guys, do something to make this heboh as big as you can and hurt the fragile feeling of those overproud 'karya anak bangsa' boys so that they'll make ruckus and gain big attention. Hopefully once it get enough attention, the project will get restarted.

Are those engineers in BUMN not feeling embarrassed? For me this is very embarrassing.

Can't even fly.

 

[FPXAllen]

If that's the case, the drone was planned to use Turkish armaments, so the culprit most likely not Turkey.

Probably. But who knows? We can only assume at this point, and will likely remain so until there's an announcement in the coming months that the air force will buy new drones from abroad.

As long as there are no fundamental changes within the top brass and policymakers regarding building our own defense capabilities and industries, this sh*t will keep on happening.

 

[Umigami]

So basically:

BRIN: "let's make it a civilian non combatan drone!"
DoD and Air Forces : "BULL SHIT !!" And walk out.

 

[NEKO]

BUMN? The cause is some higher-ups in BRIN allocated researcher in BRIN to other projects and didn't didn't provide enough funding. BRIN was supposed to manage the project, but it's also BRIN who abandoned the project by relocating the manpower in BRIN to other projects and didn't provide fund. At least that's what I get from the video.

Yeah also about creating another prototype, but more importantly about technical aspect regarding how it failed to fly.

 

[Lordimperator]

If that's the case, the drone was planned to use Turkish armaments, so the culprit most likely not Turkey.

Not the South African UAV Milkor?

 

[Lordimperator]

My guess is right on the money, the core problem is in BRIN. Someone new of high position in BRIN most likely get money from foreign drone seller. Sabotaged at its finest.

Also Covid hits hard

 

[FPXAllen]

Indeed. That's the basic nature of research & development (R&D). It's research, so failure is expected. This's why research in Indonesia lagged behind so much, because our old mindset of wanting immediate result never changed.

They don't want to run in a local marathon but dream of a win in a top spot in the Olympic's 100-meter dash, while never really trained to even win a "lomba balap karung 17an".