Indonesian Navy, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Laut (TNI-AL)

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ANMDT

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It baffles me why it seems so hard for TNI AL to go with commonality on all ships, this looks like a repeat with the Fatahillah class FFG, with 3 different CMS on board

Interoperability is not a concern because both Turkish and European systems are "NATO" compatible, this statement in this Tweet means that TN ships are not interoperable because of different systems (european-turkish) on different ships, but they are. It is a concern of logistics, stock management, maintenance costs and this concern applies to the case of different European systems on different ships in contrary what this Tweet claims, different European systems are not considered "common".

And probably it is as i told, Turkish parts will be installed by contracts given by PT Len for some systems on the ships.
But yeah he is a personnel of Havelsan, so it confuses things a little.

So if anybody can reach to this guy who posted tweet can further remind him that:
- Turkey is in NATO, thus Turkish systems are in NATO standards ,thus compatible with other NATO members -Europe.
- Turkish Navy also uses mix of Turkish systems and European systems onboard and ships are still interoperable, as supposed to be.
- Commonality is a concern of logistics
- Commonality also exists in case of installation of different systems from different European vendors, just because the system is from EU, it doesn't mean it is "common".

Let's go through what Turkey can probably offer:
Aselsan Mar-D - Hazar 3D search radar -already offered by thales-
Aselsan Smart-S MkII (licensed) -already offered by thales-
Aselsan Alper LPI -already offered by thales-
Aselsan Denizgözü -E/O -already offered by thales-
Aselsan laser warning system -already offered by thales-
Aselsan ARES series - EW suite -already offered by thales-
Aselsan AKR - Fire control radar -already offered by thales-
Aselsan Stamp-stop-smash- RWS -not offered-
Aselsan Gökdeniz - CIWS -not offered, not needed for this ship but unknown for others-
Havelsan Advent CMS -already offered by Thales-
Meteksan -Sonar -not in the package, the ships already have hull mounted sonar and not needed to be upgraded-
Roketsan Sungur - Depends on the timeline, navalized version can be published soon -not offered, not needed along MICA-VL-
Roketsan UMTAS/Cirit -laser seeker or IIR missiles up to 8 km range -not offered-
Roketsan DSH -Anti submarine rocket -not offered, not needed for bung tomo, the others remain unknown-
Aselsan anti-torpedo counter-measures and decoys -hızır/zoka -not offered-
Yaltes -ship management system -not needed-

The only missing part for Bung Tomo would be point defense systems.
And i wonder which are those remaining 6 ships any guess @#comcom.

In my opinion the best MLU, since Indonesia has intended to replace CMS, radar and other sensors, would be going for a solution in collaboration with Danish Terma and German Hensoldt, Terma CMS + AESA TRS-3D /4D and MICA-VL/CAMM can be integrated, which also would allow commonality with future frigates.
If Terma + Hensoldt has given the lowest bid and greater ToT for AAW frigate, they can do for this project as well.
 
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#comcom

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Interoperability is not a concern because both Turkish and European systems are "NATO" compatible, this statement in this Tweet means that TN ships are not interoperable because of different systems (european-turkish) on different ships, but they are. It is a concern of logistics, stock management, maintenance costs and this concern applies to the case of different European systems on different ships in contrary what this Tweet claims, different European systems are not considered "common".

And probably it is as i told, Turkish parts will be installed by contracts given by PT Len for some systems on the ships.
But yeah he is a personnel of Havelsan, so it confuses things a little.

So if anybody can reach to this guy who posted tweet can further remind him that:
- Turkey is in NATO, thus Turkish systems are in NATO standards ,thus compatible with other NATO members -Europe.
- Turkish Navy also uses mix of Turkish systems and European systems onboard and ships are still interoperable, as supposed to be.
- Commonality is a concern of logistics
- Commonality also exists in case of installation of different systems from different European vendors, just because the system is from EU, it doesn't mean it is "common".

Let's go through what Turkey can probably offer:
Aselsan Mar-D - Hazar 3D search radar -already offered by thales-
Aselsan Smart-S MkII (licensed) -already offered by thales-
Aselsan Alper LPI -already offered by thales-
Aselsan Denizgözü -E/O -already offered by thales-
Aselsan laser warning system -already offered by thales-
Aselsan ARES series - EW suite -already offered by thales-
Aselsan AKR - Fire control radar -already offered by thales-
Aselsan Stamp-stop-smash- RWS -not offered-
Aselsan Gökdeniz - CIWS -not offered, not needed for this ship but unknown for others-
Havelsan Advent CMS -already offered by Thales-
Meteksan -Sonar -not in the package, the ships already have hull mounted sonar and not needed to be upgraded-
Roketsan Sungur - Depends on the timeline, navalized version can be published soon -not offered, not needed along MICA-VL-
Roketsan UMTAS/Cirit -laser seeker or IIR missiles up to 8 km range -not offered-
Roketsan DSH -Anti submarine rocket -not offered, not needed for bung tomo, the others remain unknown-
Aselsan anti-torpedo counter-measures and decoys -hızır/zoka -not offered-
Yaltes -ship management system -not needed-

The only missing part for Bung Tomo would be point defense systems.
And i wonder which are those remaining 6 ships any guess @#comcom.

In my opinion the best MLU, since Indonesia has intended to replace CMS, radar and other sensors, would be going for a solution in collaboration with Danish Terma and German Hensoldt, Terma CMS + AESA TRS-3D /4D and MICA-VL/CAMM can be integrated, which also would allow commonality with future frigates.
If Terma + Hensoldt has given the lowest bid and greater ToT for AAW frigate, they can do for this project as well.
Hey @ANMDT sorry for the late reply, I've been very busy in the last 2 days.

So Here's what I thought, I agree on NATO country built CMS are interoperable between them, there's no question about it, what's getting fishy is when you (The Navy I mean) already stated that they would pursue commonality across all platforms to reduce cost and upkeep. Also it's better to train futre CIC operator with a single common CMS don't you think.

As for the Bung Tomo's, my best bet is that all uses:
-SMART S MK2
-THALES STIR EO MK2
-VL MICA (although I prefer quad packed able CAMM, but for the sake of commonality with the Sigma's)
-THALES TACTICOS CMS
-Vigile Mk2 ESM,
-THALES SCORPION ECM
-Link Y Mk2 and LEN LINK

With Aselsan could offer replacement to the DSB 30 Remsig autocannons reolaced by Aselsan own SMASH.


as for the list you wrote, I think it'll be best to be fitted for the 4 Sigma's and 3 van Speijk's. I could be wrong tho, what do you think???
 

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Indonesia have awarded contract for 5 Seahawk LW30M A1 30mm AutoCannon (15/10/2020) for 5 PC-40M, 3 will be installed in 2021 while 2 in 2022






earlier PC-40m uses Marlin WS 30mm
 

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Hey @ANMDT sorry for the late reply, I've been very busy in the last 2 days.

So Here's what I thought, I agree on NATO country built CMS are interoperable between them, there's no question about it, what's getting fishy is when you (The Navy I mean) already stated that they would pursue commonality across all platforms to reduce cost and upkeep. Also it's better to train futre CIC operator with a single common CMS don't you think.

As for the Bung Tomo's, my best bet is that all uses:
-SMART S MK2
-THALES STIR EO MK2
-VL MICA (although I prefer quad packed able CAMM, but for the sake of commonality with the Sigma's)
-THALES TACTICOS CMS
-Vigile Mk2 ESM,
-THALES SCORPION ECM
-Link Y Mk2 and LEN LINK

With Aselsan could offer replacement to the DSB 30 Remsig autocannons reolaced by Aselsan own SMASH.


as for the list you wrote, I think it'll be best to be fitted for the 4 Sigma's and 3 van Speijk's. I could be wrong tho, what do you think???
I don't know but since ever i believed Indonesia should have strived for local-licensed or even discounted solutions by using high number of the ships to be modernized or acquired.
And i say, if they intend to acquire all in one package solution for ships, that should have been for the AAW frigate, which is a critical asset; Not on Sigma corvettes or frigates or Bung Tomos.
And for Bung Tomo and other modernization projects Terma+ Hensoldt duo with various other vendors for required parts or missiles; 1st to gain proficiency in systems engineering and integration, and then to strengthen ties with those componies for given numbers of production for local production. Terma is already used on KCRs.
 

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Encounter between Indonesian Submarine and French Breguet Atlantique



Indonesia has a submarine squadron called the Submarine Unit (Satkasel) of the Indonesian Navy's Kencana Shark Corps.

Formed since September 12, 1959, the Kencana Hiu Corps has carried out various military operations at home and abroad.

Starting from the Trikora, Dwikora, East Timor Conflict, Ambalat Conflict and other unpublished operations that have been carried out by the Hiu Kencana Corps.

One of the most thrilling operations when the Indonesian submarine was in European waters.

Quoted by zonajakarta.com from the book 50 Years of Devotion to the Golden Shark, At that time in 1987, KRI Cakra 401 finished overhauling in Germany.

Then the Indonesian Navy sent the crew to bring the KRI Cakra home to Indonesia.

The crazy thing is that submarines will not be carried by surface ships when they are about to be brought to Indonesia.

However, the crew will operate the KRI Cakra back to Indonesia by traveling far from Europe to Indonesia.


The Atlantique 2 French submarine hunter that looks very similar to the P3C Orion (photo: Dassault)
In order to add to the experience of the crew in knowing European waters.

With passionate enthusiasm, the crew sailed the KRI Cakra 401 departing from Germany on June 16, 1987.

On the way back to Indonesia, it turned out that KRI Cakra had to run into various problems.

When passing through the island of Sicilia, Italy, the horizontal steering wheel of KRI Cakra was actually caught in the local fishermen's net, even though it was eventually overcome by Indonesian Navy soldiers.

The journey continued again and when the KRI Cakra passed the Suez Canal into the Red Sea, on the horizon was a French Navy P3 Orion maritime reconnaissance aircraft.

It seems that Atlantique of the French Navy has followed KRI Cakra from the Djibouti waters.

Unfortunately the reconnaissance plane was spying on KRI Cakra and taking all the ins and outs of the Indonesian submarine.

The ship's commander then ordered KRI Cakra to crash dive at 75 meters below sea level to avoid Atlantique observation.

Antlantique who saw his target dive then threw sonar sonar tracking submarine into the sea to find out the position of KRI Cakra.

Furious with the French Navy's unfriendly behavior, the commander of KRI Cakra ordered the surface once more.

After appearing on the surface, the KRI Cakra commander ordered his men to swim to the sonobuoys and pick it up.
After turning off the transponder, the sonobuoy was brought into KRI Cakra and the ship dived again. KRI Cakra then returned to Indonesia after the incident and brought 'Souvenirs' to the Indonesian Navy Headquarters in the form of sonobuoys from the French Navy.


from the book "50 Tahun Pengabdian Hiu Kencana"/ 50 years of Service, Golden Shark unit.

 
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