Indonesia Indonesian Navy, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Laut (TNI-AL)

[Van Kravchenko]

IMO the way I see it this could represent a deeper organizational problem, which I hope not. Why are we using GFP as a metric? Do we not have our own dimension to measure our capability? It looks as if the policymakers are so keen to get into the dick-measuring contest tbh

Well, i think it safe to say in a decade proper capability survey of IDAF is less to none.
One of the cause is the stakeholder were keen to push personel "kesejahteraan" (read, kendaraan dinas + tunjangan) rather than safety and combat readyness of the personel. Thus, make budget for capability survey and assasment is less to none. Then, since no self measurement; pick random guy survey from internet is a cheap way out.

I dont like this to say, but in every battle with KKSB , IDArmy always got down hand. Well, push urban soldiers to battle with mountain soldier in mountain realm seems to be a bad way to die. If losing "Perwira Tinggi" doesnt sufficient for IDAF to reform, i dont know what thing to put in my comment. Just watch and grab a popcorn.

 

[Madokafc]

 

[Madokafc]

Tak Main-main! Jokowi & Prabowo Bakal Lebih Galak di Natuna

Keamanan Laut Natuna masih menjadi prioritas pemerintahan Presiden Joko Widodo (Jokowi).

www.cnbcindonesia.com

 

[Madokafc]

Indonesia configures 90 m OPVs for anti-submarine, anti-ship operations​

by Ridzwan Rahmat
The Indonesian Navy is equipping its new class of two 90 m offshore patrol vessels (OPVs) with a Turkish combat management system (CMS) and weapons for anti-submarine and anti-ship operations.

Schematic diagrams and other official documents forwarded to Janes by an industry source confirm that the Indonesian Navy has selected the Advent combat system from Turkish software company Havelsan.

The system will be supplied with five operator consoles on a vessel combat network that has one electro-optical (EO) targeting system turret, a combined radar and EO-based fire-control system, a navigation radar, and a surveillance radar integrated with an identification friend-or-foe system.

The CMS will also be linked to a 76/62 Super Rapid (SR) naval gun – presumably from Italian defence company Leonardo – with provisions for a 35 mm naval gun system, two 20 mm cannons, anti-surface missiles, a variable-depth sonar system, decoy launchers, and an electronic warfare radar.

A computer-generated image of the vessel provided by shipbuilder PT Daya Radar Utama (PT DRU) indicates that the navy intends to equip the OPV with four anti-surface missile launchers mounted amidships. The image also depicts a 35 mm naval gun system in the aft section facing the flight deck, but it is unclear where the 20 mm guns will be located.

However, except for the 76 mm naval gun, Janes has been informed that selection processes for the remaining weapons are yet to begin and provisions for these systems in the CMS architecture will be made on a fitted-for-but-not-with basis.

As reported by Janes

Indonesia configures 90 m OPVs for anti-submarine, anti-ship operations

The Indonesian Navy is equipping its new class of two 90 m offshore patrol vessels (OPVs) with a Turkish combat management system (CMS) and weapons for anti-submarine...

www.janes.com

 

[Madokafc]

I just remember, PT PAL once said they can build three Frigates right now in pararel production line, yeah i kinda believe they are right. Ever heard Subcontract projects? That's what they do right now!

 

[Barjo_2]

I just remember, PT PAL once said they can build three Frigates right now in pararel production line, yeah i kinda believe they are right. Ever heard Subcontract projects? That's what they do right now!

PAL Shipyard garmen industrial CMT, cut, make, trimp time to replace the parchim

 

[wekiweko]

IMO the way I see it this could represent a deeper organizational problem, which I hope not. Why are we using GFP as a metric? Do we not have our own dimension to measure our capability? It looks as if the policymakers are so keen to get into the dick-measuring contest tbh

true that bro. serves only to gives those responsible a feel good moment but nothing more

 

[Anmdt]

I just remember, PT PAL once said they can build three Frigates right now in pararel production line, yeah i kinda believe they are right. Ever heard Subcontract projects? That's what they do right now!

Many shipyards use subcontractors, it doesn't quite work as you interpret.
Subcontractors still uses infastructure of the shipyard; cranes, steel processing, welding equipment, sub-assembly areas allocated to them or the workshops. It accelerates the process, but it doesn't unlock 2x 3x capacity of the fincantieri with 1/2 - 1/3 of the infastructure.

So what they call parallel is not quite parallel as we understand but sequential in fact, since a ship inherits different disciplines and work packages, these packages are shifted in a way that allows a work team to finish a job and relocate to the other hull.

It is usually like this;
- steel cutting of 1st ship starts
- block building of 1st ship starts
- erection of 1st ship starts
- steel cutting of 1st ship is done, steel cutting of 2nd ship starts
- block building of 2nd ship is done, block building of 2nd ship starts.

It is complicated if the new construction dry dock's capacity is limited, the blocks of the extra hull awaits finished in the area, and erected in a month or two.
Sometimes that is why you magically see very short times between keel laying and launching.

... And goes like that for piping, cabling, equipping, testing. This is very hard to apply if ships are not identical.
The question is do you think there are sufficient subcontractors and experienced on warships workers to be allocated on 3 ships at once to allow a true parallel construction like Chinese do.

 

[NEKO]

The Indonesian Navy is equipping its new class of two 90 m offshore patrol vessels (OPVs)

Isn't it the so called OPV and OPV 90, will both have ASuW and ASW capability(have same sewaco) or 1 will be intended for ASW.

 

[Anmdt]

Indonesia configures 90 m OPVs for anti-submarine, anti-ship operations​

by Ridzwan Rahmat
The Indonesian Navy is equipping its new class of two 90 m offshore patrol vessels (OPVs) with a Turkish combat management system (CMS) and weapons for anti-submarine and anti-ship operations.

Schematic diagrams and other official documents forwarded to Janes by an industry source confirm that the Indonesian Navy has selected the Advent combat system from Turkish software company Havelsan.

The system will be supplied with five operator consoles on a vessel combat network that has one electro-optical (EO) targeting system turret, a combined radar and EO-based fire-control system, a navigation radar, and a surveillance radar integrated with an identification friend-or-foe system.

The CMS will also be linked to a 76/62 Super Rapid (SR) naval gun – presumably from Italian defence company Leonardo – with provisions for a 35 mm naval gun system, two 20 mm cannons, anti-surface missiles, a variable-depth sonar system, decoy launchers, and an electronic warfare radar.

A computer-generated image of the vessel provided by shipbuilder PT Daya Radar Utama (PT DRU) indicates that the navy intends to equip the OPV with four anti-surface missile launchers mounted amidships. The image also depicts a 35 mm naval gun system in the aft section facing the flight deck, but it is unclear where the 20 mm guns will be located.

However, except for the 76 mm naval gun, Janes has been informed that selection processes for the remaining weapons are yet to begin and provisions for these systems in the CMS architecture will be made on a fitted-for-but-not-with basis.

As reported by Janes

Indonesia configures 90 m OPVs for anti-submarine, anti-ship operations

The Indonesian Navy is equipping its new class of two 90 m offshore patrol vessels (OPVs) with a Turkish combat management system (CMS) and weapons for anti-submarine...

www.janes.com

Any contract between Havelsan and DRU? I still doubt this could be one of the options among the western equilavents and mentioned as a winner in the article.

 

[Barjo_2]

Many shipyards use subcontractors, it doesn't quite work as you interpret.
Subcontractors still uses infastructure of the shipyard; cranes, steel processing, welding equipment, sub-assembly areas allocated to them or the workshops. It accelerates the process, but it doesn't unlock 2x 3x capacity of the fincantieri with 1/2 - 1/3 of the infastructure.

So what they call parallel is not quite parallel as we understand but sequential in fact, since a ship inherits different disciplines and work packages, these packages are shifted in a way that allows a work team to finish a job and relocate to the other hull.

It is usually like this;
- steel cutting of 1st ship starts
- block building of 1st ship starts
- erection of 1st ship starts
- steel cutting of 1st ship is done, steel cutting of 2nd ship starts
- block building of 2nd ship is done, block building of 2nd ship starts.

It is complicated if the new construction dry dock's capacity is limited, the blocks of the extra hull awaits finished in the area, and erected in a month or two.
Sometimes that is why you magically see very short times between keel laying and launching.

... And goes like that for piping, cabling, equipping, testing. This is very hard to apply if ships are not identical.
The question is do you think there are sufficient subcontractors and experienced on warships workers to be allocated on 3 ships at once to allow a true parallel construction like Chinese do.

Yes thats true
That almost impossible to alocated all the shipyard worker to work in single division aka naval shipbuilding, when the commercial devison worker, maintanance servis or others division must give up their actual capability, they may lost the other market opportunity.

Maybe some shipyard here can do some simultant work betwen division inside a shipyard but it will highly unefective for some small and medium shipyard, because of the amount of time and worker available in producing a single ship. Subcontracted is the best way cutting a cost. Preproduction work, then assembly, last is testing. The part of second and third are ussualy done by the main contractor

Cheers bro

 

[Barjo_2]

Any contract between Havelsan and DRU? I still doubt this could be one of the options among the western equilavents and mentioned as a winner in the article.

Have'nt hear yet but ussualy it is seperate from hull contract the hull contract state ffbnw

 

[NEKO]

It will be complicated to spread production of hull sections far away from each other just to build ship that is not so big, while something like aircraft carrier works can be spread.

But if its like some small subsystem and the like its okay to subcontract it like piping, interior etc, the main contractor just need to assemble it.

 

[Barjo_2]

It will be complicated to spread production of hull sections far away from each other just to build ship that is not so big, while something like aircraft carrier works can be spread.

But if its like some small subsystem and the like its okay to subcontract it like piping, interior etc, the main contractor just need to assemble it.

Well just dunno that... how it can be..... Sorry this is for DRU or batamec?

 

[Barjo_2]

It will be complicated to spread production of hull sections far away from each other just to build ship that is not so big, while something like aircraft carrier works can be spread.

But if its like some small subsystem and the like its okay to subcontract it like piping, interior etc, the main contractor just need to assemble it.

Oh if its about iver? Iver actually build in estonia and latvia, then the segment shiped to danish shipyard for assembly

For the subcon matter i dunno, may just called it the magic of marketing for now

 

[JATOSINT]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1443548743085740037

 

[NEKO]

Oh if its about iver? Iver actually build in estonia and latvia, then the segment shiped to danish shipyard for assembly

For the subcon matter i dunno, may just called it the magic of marketing for now

I hope our AH140 and FREMM sections will be completely built by PAL, and if 30FFM also being picked it should be build completely by 1 shipyard.

 

[Lordimperator]

Ever heard Subcontract projects? That's what they do right now!

Like our vrygate with Batamec?

picked it should be build completely by 1 shipyard.

It would take a long time if 2 ah140, 2 fremm ita, and 4 30ffm to build by PAL only

 

[Barjo_2]

I hope our AH140 and FREMM sections will be completely built by PAL, and if 30FFM also being picked it should be build completely by 1 shipyard.

Well like or dislike this is a bussines, for small hull it may ok because it will not create a botle neck production like the LCS case in our neighbourgh.

Also there are nothing secret in surface ship hull build except for some crucial segment like bridge and other suprastructure. But event fin stabilizer, propeler is another key part that we can afford it in more economical way by subcont them, there are some tech that we don't mastered yet. But it will different story when we talk about submarine hull, but event screw and bold or event rivet they have a diferent standart.. Thanks god we dont follow the US metric system... So why make it dificult by retooling or calibrate our machine if we can get it faster bro

Paling simple vespa italia kuncinya banyak ganjil bro dibandingkan mesin jepang yang genap, tapi untung masih pakai standar ukuran yang sama, kalau amerika..... Colokan listriknya ja beda... LOL its complicated with standardize and customize thing, better we can get the hull lot faster and giving a lot time to do a "pritilan" thing in the main shipyard

 

[NEKO]

Well like or dislike this is a bussines, for small hull it may ok because it will not create a botle neck production like the LCS case in our neighbourgh.

Also there are nothing secret in surface ship hull build except for some crucial segment like bridge and other suprastructure. But event fin stabilizer, propeler is another key part that we can afford it in more economical way by subcont them, there are some tech that we don't mastered yet. But it will different story when we talk about submarine hull, but event screw and bold or event rivet they have a diferent standart.. Thanks god we dont follow the US metric system... So why make it dificult by retooling or calibrate our machine if we can get it faster bro

Paling simple vespa italia kuncinya banyak ganjil bro dibandingkan mesin jepang yang genap, tapi untung masih pakai standar ukuran yang sama, kalau amerika..... Colokan listriknya ja beda... LOL its complicated with standardize and customize thing, better we can get the hull lot faster and giving a lot time to do a "pritilan" thing in the main shipyard

Of course you need to buy the propeller + shaft somewhere(sub contracting), why PAL must make it them self.

Few years ago I talked with someone that work in a shipyard, he said that local made propeller is of shite quality, I forgot why I think its about the milling process or something, foreign made have smooth surface and kinclong or something like that.