Indonesia Indonesian Navy, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Laut (TNI-AL)

[RockVett]

27 JANUARY 2022

Indonesia, TKMS discuss HDW Class 209, 214 submarines for navy's requirements​

by Ridzwan Rahmat

A Portuguese Navy Tridente (Type 214)-class submarine. Indonesia has held another round of talks with TKMS for the latest variant of this submarine type. (TKMS)

Officials from the Indonesian Navy and the Ministry of Defence have held another meeting with German shipbuilder ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems (TKMS).

This time, it was to discuss the HDW Class 209/1400mod submarine for Jakarta's underwater warfare requirements. The meeting was held virtually on 12 January, a source close to the discussions has informed Janes.

The matters that were discussed include the HDW Class 209/1400mod's mission profiles and if it can undertake missions required of the Indonesian Navy including conventional submarine warfare, and other operations such as intelligence gathering and special forces insertion.

The HDW Class 209/1400mod is the most recent version of TKMS' 209 family of diesel-electrically powered submarines. The vessel has an overall length of 62 m, a pressure hull diameter of 6.2 m, and it displaces about 1,450 tonnes when surfaced. The vessel is equipped with eight weapon tubes and can accommodate a crew of 30.

Also rediscussed during the meeting was TKMS' Class 214 family, which can be equipped with air-independent propulsion (AIP) systems.

This is the second known formal meeting held between Indonesian defence officials and TKMS. As reported by Janes in March 2021, a TKMS delegation was in Jakarta that month to brief Indonesian defence planners on the company's Class 214 offerings.

Read more:

Indonesia, TKMS discuss HDW Class 209, 214 submarines for navy's requirements

Officials from the Indonesian Navy and the Ministry of Defence have held another meeting with German shipbuilder ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems (TKMS).

www.janes.com

Any further news about The visit of DSME technicians that will be accompanied by Kang Eun-ho, the head of the Defense Acquisition Program Administration (DAPA)?
who will conduct maintenance on the Changbogo class submarines? TKMS or DSME? super curious.

 

[R4duga]

broken ..... is there something broken ?

 

[JATOSINT]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1486958851207606274

 

[R4duga]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1486958851207606274

ah yes, my extensive year of war thunder, silent hunters, and world of warship skill and experience may come in handy.

 

[JATOSINT]

ah yes, my extensive year of war thunder, silent hunters, and world of warship skill and experience may come in handy.

Fancy


My Naval Warfare experience:

 

[Umigami]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1486950325810438147

Choose wisely, Indonesia.

 

[Umigami]

Can please someone educate me, is it true non AIP version can patrol longer eventhough can't dive as long as AIP equipped one?

 

[R4duga]

Can please someone educate me, is it true non AIP version can patrol longer eventhough can't dive as long as AIP equipped one?

depend, i believes non aip that use a latest battery technology might actually have greater endurance while submerged such as those taigei class with Li-ion, but their performance detail are still classified though, it might be because AIP version take a lot of space in hull section while non aip one might have more space for battery bank which are not occupied by AIP modules.

 

[Madokafc]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1486950325810438147

Choose wisely, Indonesia.

Unless you can optimized the actual capability of the said weaponry, there is no brainer to bought for the sake of just buying it.

Indonesian Navy already have experience with Yakhont Missiles, and that's one is unsuitable for our doctrine and playing atmosphere

 

[Madokafc]

Btw on our current fleets and already signed order (> 550 tonnes surface combatant and patrol vessels)

General Corvette
Sigma class : 4 units
Bung Tomo class : 3 units
Fatahillah class : 3 units

ASW Corvette
Parchim class : 14 units (soon to be retired)

Multipurpose Frigates
Martadinata class : 2 units
Ahmad Yani class : 5 units (soon to be retired)

On order (Already signed contract or already in building phase)

Arrowhead 140 : 2 units
FREMM : 6 units
Maestrale class : 2 units
OPV 90 meter class : 2 units
OPV 60 meter class : 2 units
KCR 60 meter class : 4 units ( including refit and rearm of previous two units means six units is in Shipyard at various progress stage)

In consideration or grants on offer
Mogami class : 4 units (+4 on option)
Pohang class Corvette : 3 units
Turkey Fast attack patrol vessels :

------------------------
There is also rumour about Ministry of Defense put request for Four units of Destroyer Type vessels.

 

[Umigami]

Should be, and must be. That's a given quest for the largest country in ASEAN, in which had the largest population, economy and largest annual budget.

Without such humble aspiration, this country should find a well and doing what a frog good at.

Minister of Finance Sri Mulyani Indrawati, as the state treasurer had also helped strengthen the Indonesian military. Although, according to him, every discussion has a tough debate with Sri, but he thinks it's a natural thing.

Still working hard for all those big ticket items.

Although not the biggest defense budget.

50 combat vessels? (FAC, OPV, Corvette, Frigate) + Submarine?
Or 50 vessels that is always combat ready (regardless of type)? While the 100+ is doing MRO and rest?

In terms of quality Singapore is still in the lead, but we are catching up with quality and quantity of course.

50 surface combatants ? Or mixed with auxiliary boats like LPD,LST, etc, etc ?

Well, that's my entire point, she ignored checks and balances and instead concentrates all power on herself.

If SM wants to improve Indonesia's finances then it's good. But she doesn't stop there, she encroaches on every affair of the state by holding tight control on the budget, crossing the lines of her formal authority. So she's more powerful than other economic ministers, when the minister of agriculture apologized for Menko's blunder, she didn't, she clearly sees herself as superior to all others. Heck, she is more powerful than the President because she can tell Wowo to GTFO while Wiwi cannot do that. Again, this is my discipline, you guys might not see the problem, but it IS serious and in time it will create an unhealthy situation. Heck one ministry under one hag, manage everything from scholarship to the national defense, is she the President now? politics dictates the purse, not the other way around.

A bit of unpopular opinion here, but I don't like Sri Mulyani and the current arrangement of Kemenkeu. She's too powerful and tipped the balance of power a bit too much. Imagine that a minister of finance, has her mercy on the national defense, and everything really. Kemenkeu itself has too much power and responsibility than they are supposed to be. Heck, even the US Department of Treasury is less powerful in comparison to Kemenkeu, as this ministry even has its own armed forces. We should give the role of state treasurer to Menko Perekonomian instead because, with Sri Mulyani's current position, she is practically more powerful than her own superiors, the President (who is gullible), and the Menko (who is ignored by his biggest underling). SM has gotten on my nerve when she keeps striking down the proposed budget for force modernization, I think she has crossed the line here.

I am educated in political science, that's why this situation bothers me a lot, cause SM messes up with the chain of command and institutional power arrangement, concentrating all power to Kemenkeu through budget control, even defying the MPR itself. Yet most people are unaware of the implication of this excessive concentration of power in a single ministry.

This is turn into political .... But , let me entertain you for a bit . You said she was medle on everything and anything . Yet , dude .... I say it was a matter of persfectives here . Who say she is not encouraged by jkw to do that ?? If SMI were so strong and powerfull . Trust me for saying this .... Everybody was paying for their own covid's jabs . You said that JKW was a guilible one ... Yet , when all the region's economy was slumped down ...we are running for the hill here literally . So who was the idiot in the neighbourhood then ?? .. no guilible president dare to dictates global market with our long bumipoetra wishes and whims . Not even the glorious SBY could free us from the global " free market " hypocrisy ... Yet , we are here today !! With the FIR and extradition treaty in reality and many other to come .... Heck , even arifin panigoro cs were always smiling these days .
Everybody was entitled for their opinion ... But , dude ... Election moment were still 2 years away . It's too early for the political baggage to start to appear on my cheap infinix's screen here ...


Pretty please ....

He is working very, VERY hard...

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1486999613697818627

 

[Lordimperator]

Four units of Destroyer Type vessels

Will it multipurpose or aaw oriented?

 

[Soman45]

There is also rumour about Ministry of Defense put request for Four units of Destroyer Type vessels.

Wait, i thought this table from http://defense-studies.blogspot.com/2022/01/prabowo-tni-al-bakal-punya-50-kapal.html is doubtful with 4 destroyers but it's almost real?!

 

[Madokafc]

Wait, i thought this table from http://defense-studies.blogspot.com/2022/01/prabowo-tni-al-bakal-punya-50-kapal.html is doubtful with 4 destroyers but it's almost real?!
View attachment 39140

Not that without basis data for the number, but request for Destroyer is already exist

 

[HellFireIndo]

Wait, i thought this table from http://defense-studies.blogspot.com/2022/01/prabowo-tni-al-bakal-punya-50-kapal.html is doubtful with 4 destroyers but it's almost real?!
View attachment 39140

Destroyer and Frigate have a very thin line of differences these days, you may say that their classification is arbitrary. Bule may say that 7000-tonne ship class is only a Frigate yet the Japs may say 5000-tonne class is already a Destroyer.

 

[Madokafc]

Destroyer and Frigate have a very thin line of differences these days, you may say that their classification is arbitrary. Bule may say that 7000-tonne ship class is only a Frigate yet the Japs may say 5000-tonne class is already a Destroyer.

He want something like Arleigh Burke class at least

 

[Maverick]

and in other side of the world there are Tico class to be retired soon #very wild and wet dream

 

[Soman45]

He want something like Arleigh Burke class at least

Yooo seriously? at least? sorry i just *lol* what in the world *lol* he seriously wants something like AB....haih...just give me my FREMM first and let's continue with this destroyer thing *sigh*

 

[R4duga]

Yooo seriously? at least? sorry i just *lol* what in the world *lol* he seriously wants something like AB....haih...just give me my FREMM first and let's continue with this destroyer thing *sigh*

let's wait till fincantieri showed the new italian 10.000 tonnes ddx design, the bigger the better right ?

https://news.yahoo.com/italy-plans-...UigbhKUPS7bdOx8EWhmiZDrla_saTJbgoC3vteLKmSZJW

"After building 10 FREMM-class frigates — the same type acquired by the United States — as well as designing new 4,500-ton multimission ships, a 33,000-ton landing helicopter dock and new logistics vessels, a risk-reduction study is due to start on two 10,000-ton destroyers dubbed DDX."

"The Navy wants the 175-meter-long vessels to replace two aging destroyers, the ITS Durand de la Penne and ITS Mimbelli. Those two vessels entered service in the early 1990s and were joined in service by Italy’s two more recent Horizon-class ships, which the Navy classifies as destroyers."

 

[HellFireIndo]

He want something like Arleigh Burke class at least

Any further info on that?