Indonesia Indonesian Navy, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Laut (TNI-AL)

[Anmdt]

Why sign the contract when you know I won't go through?

Nevertheless, he seems highly disturbed with Atmaca being selected and he implies negative opinion of the 'lender' towards turkish firm. But he can not dare to tell that lender narrows selection in a way that it ends up pointing to one company that he also favors

 

[FPXAllen]

Doubt it, they quoted APDJ and APDJ also made the assumption based on certification of the missile by Badan Penelitian dan Pengembangan TNI AL

This is what I always feared in my career: Making 'news' based mostly on assumptions or incomplete data without proper analysis.

It's still fine if it's an educated guess or an interpolation from incomplete data. However, one must still be very careful to state something like "to acquire" if there's still no official statement regarding it. I mean, for a government body to certify something doesn't automatically mean they will buy it, right?

Nevertheless, he seems highly disturbed with Atmaca being selected and he implies negative opinion of the 'lender' towards turkish firm. But he can not dare to tell that lender narrows selection in a way that it ends up pointing to one company that he also favors

I don't think a person can call him/herself a proper defense journalist - or a proper journalist at all - if he/she is carrying 'baggage' from any companies. Of course, one can still favor certain companies over others, but not to the extent of becoming said companies' mouthpiece no matter how subtle it is.

But then again, companies spending $$$ on certain "journalists" so they can attempt to divert and direct narratives to better suit those companies' interests is not something that is unheard of.

 

[GraveDigger388]

What else other than that?

A flying combat apparatus which shape is kinda reminiscence to Starscream's vehicle mode in Michael Bay's "Transformers"?

 

[Umigami]

Amendment negotiations in progress

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1751466020144087523

 

[Lordimperator]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1751509627081228458

Who is this guarantor, "2 years ready to use submarine"? China? SoKor?

 

[flogger]

Italy ? Japan ?

 

[Anmdt]

Its sistership KRI Bung Karno 369 but longer 2-3 meter

TNI AL Mulai Bangun Kapal Korvet Sekelas KRI Bung Karno-369

Pembangunan kapal korvet ini ditandai dengan First Steel Cutting dan Keel Laying Kapal Korvet Multi Years di galangan PT Karimun Anugrah Sejati.

nasional.kompas.com

This project is so underrated. Imho*, you guys are looking at NTPB** of Indonesia, which is far more logical and down to earth naval project of Indonesia which can be made in high counts, low cost with an open market.

*I studied the design a bit, it settles at a sweet spot and made much better than KCR, and i hope to see this platform in 20+ counts to replace broad range of classes ( all those refurbished 41 units in fact). I think 5 to 7 of these would cost as much as the OPV90 in bare configuration.

** NTPB was a project handled by a private Turkish shipyard while Milgem project was ongoing in parallel in the Naval shipyard, and intended to supply broad needs of TN for patrol duties.

 

[chibiyabi]

Don't tell me it's him again?!

don't blame all the sh*t to him, he was just war jungkies, i think lot of people arround him should responsible for cathastropic that years.. if you remember someone used bosman as consultan, WTF .....

 

[NEKO]

and i hope to see this platform in 20+ counts to replace broad range of classes

Hopefully, but as i said previously maybe it will take time, after the design is mature enough and TNI AL is fully satisfied.
We will see if TNI AL will order more of this ship, even if its just 1 unit (but with some improvements and changes).

 

[Anmdt]

Hopefully, but as i said previously maybe it will take time, after the design is mature enough and TNI AL is fully satisfied.
We will see if TNI AL will order more of this ship, even if its just 1 unit (but with some improvements and changes).

The design is quite conventional and there is little room to mature (in fact most can be handled during construction of what they may call prototype hulls). All Navy needs to do is setting the requirements openly, and/or join the design - testing process to mature it as quick as possible.
Imho just copy Turkish - American style (Navy with design / project control offices) instead of Franco one.

 

[Lordimperator]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1752251106594586962

Are those the empty vls? (Red mark)

 

[Windchime]

Why sign the contract when you know I won't go through?

I always wonder that myself as well regarding TNI AL.

Anyway navy needs anti-ship missiles in the supersonic regime. And I don't see anything from the West in this category

The Korean supersonic ASM already in service? Japanese ASM-3? Hsiung Feng III? Therr are plenty and just because you're not aware, doesn't mean they don't exist. Of course if Indonesia can get any of these is another question.

 

[Dosirak]

I am shocked that Indonesian on this forum generally think poorly of industrial cooporation with Korea over naval projects. Not only Indonesia's PT PAL assembled its first locally-built submarine with transfer of techology from Korea, but also still receives technical support from Hanwha Ocean and Shipbuilding Industry of Indonesia as a whole imports critical equipment and materials for shipbuilding from Korea. Defense Minister of Indoensia, Prabowo who is I believe a presidential candidate even attended a ship delivery ceremony of Alugoro-405 and President Jokowi emphasized the importance of cooperation between Korea and Indonesia over submarine projects. Hanwha Ocean, back then Korea & DSME have received no major complaint over workmanship done by DSME from Indonesia.

I am not sure why Indonesian think they have been wronged by Korea. In fact, Korea & Hanwha Ocean have been very patient with Indonesia which hasn't executed the order for additional 3 submarine from Hanwha Ocean for almost 6 years now and Korea & Hanwha Ocean could have very much asked for a contract cancellation fee from Indonesia.

I guess Indonesian might have their own reason, but it doesn't seem like it is rational.

 

[Anmdt]

I am shocked that Indonesian on this forum generally think poorly of industrial cooporation with Korea over naval projects. Not only Indonesia's PT PAL assembled its first locally-built submarine with transfer of techology from Korea, but also still receives technical support from Hanwha Ocean and Shipbuilding Industry of Indonesia as a whole imports critical equipment and materials for shipbuilding from Korea. Defense Minister of Indoensia, Prabowo who is I believe a presidential candidate even attended a ship delivery ceremony of Alugoro-405 and President Jokowi emphasized the importance of cooperation between Korea and Indonesia over submarine projects. Hanwha Ocean, back then Korea & DSME have received no major complaint over workmanship done by DSME from Indonesia.

I am not sure why Indonesian think they have been wronged by Korea. In fact, Korea & Hanwha Ocean have been very patient with Indonesia which hasn't executed the order for additional 3 submarine from Hanwha Ocean for almost 6 years now and Korea & Hanwha Ocean could have very much asked for a contract cancellation fee from Indonesia.

I guess Indonesian might have their own reason, but it doesn't seem like it is rational.

Frankly had this thought ever since, and i believe having a partner in the neighbourhood is more practical than having one at the another continent for supplies and maintenance ,on the other hand, thought that's not my business and my ranting will not change anything as countries have their own habits, practices and reasons.

 

[Lordimperator]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1752338769074958820

OPV 90 building in progress, unknown date.
Credit: Eka Tryana

 

[NEKO]

I am shocked that Indonesian on this forum generally think poorly of industrial cooporation with Korea over naval projects.

Not all Indonesian member.

I am really confused with our submarine program.

As for Nagapasa batch 2, i am not opposing it.

It have been discussed several times, some pointed out that the flaws is caused by the sub-component provided by the sub contractor etc.

Some said nagapasa class is not operational, which is proven wrong.

And many other. Its like trying to be nit-picky about nagapasa class.

I personally not disappointed nor satisfied with nagapasa class, we got what we paid for.

Some Indonesian members and Indonesian military enthusiast in general seems to be influenced and easily swayed by 'influencers' from social media (facebook, instagram, twitter, youtube etc) rather than making their own judgements.

 

[Lordimperator]

Not all Indonesian member.




Some Indonesian members and Indonesian military enthusiast ingeneral seems to be influenced by 'influencers' from social media (facebook, instagram, twitter, youtube etc) rather than making their own judgements.

The limited access about the knowledge whats actually happened behind the door. Not all things being published.

At the end of the line, we got what we paid, 1 billion for 3 ssk plus ToT. It is what it is.

 

[norman88]

I am shocked that Indonesian on this forum generally think poorly of industrial cooporation with Korea over naval projects. Not only Indonesia's PT PAL assembled its first locally-built submarine with transfer of techology from Korea, but also still receives technical support from Hanwha Ocean and Shipbuilding Industry of Indonesia as a whole imports critical equipment and materials for shipbuilding from Korea. Defense Minister of Indoensia, Prabowo who is I believe a presidential candidate even attended a ship delivery ceremony of Alugoro-405 and President Jokowi emphasized the importance of cooperation between Korea and Indonesia over submarine projects. Hanwha Ocean, back then Korea & DSME have received no major complaint over workmanship done by DSME from Indonesia.

I am not sure why Indonesian think they have been wronged by Korea. In fact, Korea & Hanwha Ocean have been very patient with Indonesia which hasn't executed the order for additional 3 submarine from Hanwha Ocean for almost 6 years now and Korea & Hanwha Ocean could have very much asked for a contract cancellation fee from Indonesia.

I guess Indonesian might have their own reason, but it doesn't seem like it is rational.

In fact, the submarines have caused significant detriment to Indonesia. Aside from having very minimal TOT, numerous technical damages were found in all three submarines. Consequently, they have become hangar queens, requiring Operation Readiness Enhancement (ORE) for repairs at an estimated cost of about $100 million.

Pangkoarmada II Bahas Kapal Selam Indonesia dengan Korea Selatan

Pangkoarmada II menyampaikan bahwa Operation Readines Enhancement (ORE) merupakan program yang bertujuan untuk meningkatkan kondisi teknis kapal selam kelas Nagapasa sehingga dapat beroperasi secara optimal.

www.suarasurabaya.net

 

[Dosirak]

In fact, the submarines have caused significant detriment to Indonesia. Aside from having very minimal TOT, numerous technical damages were found in all three submarines. Consequently, they have become hangar queens, requiring Operation Readiness Enhancement (ORE) for repairs at an estimated cost of about $100 million.

Pangkoarmada II Bahas Kapal Selam Indonesia dengan Korea Selatan

Pangkoarmada II menyampaikan bahwa Operation Readines Enhancement (ORE) merupakan program yang bertujuan untuk meningkatkan kondisi teknis kapal selam kelas Nagapasa sehingga dapat beroperasi secara optimal.

www.suarasurabaya.net

Again, I don't want you to claim this falsehood unless you have any substantial evidence. Korea & Hanwha Ocean (formerly DSME) have recevied no complaint over any worksmanship & design done by Hanwha Ocean and continue to provide technical support for their submarine fleet in good faith. Even in your article, Indonesian side can't dare to put the blame on Korean side for whatever the problem that Indonesia has because Hanwha Ocean and Korea aren't at fault. Maintainance & overhaul to keep existing fleets in optimal conditions for operation is completely a normal process.

Indonesia assembled its first-ever locally-built submarine with ToT & technical assistance from Hanwha Ocean (formerly DSME). That's not insignificant ToT. Even President Jokowi himself acknowledged this said that "collaboration (with Korea & DSME) is good".

It is inconceivable for you to claim that ToT was very minimal while Indonesia boasts the fact that she is the only ASEAN country that is capable of building a submarine with ToT & technical assistance from DSME & Korea.

First Indonesian-built Submarine Handed Over to TNI AL - Naval News

South Korea's Daewoo Shipbuilding & Marine Engineering (DSME) announced today that KRI Alugoro (405) was handed over to the Indonesian Navy (TNI AL) during a ceremony held at the local PT PAL shipyard in Surabaya, Indonesia.

www.navalnews.com

Menhan KORSEL Tinjau PAL INDONESIA untuk Kemandirian Industri Maritim

PT. PAL Indonesia (Persero)

www.pal.co.id

Presiden Harapkan Kapal Selam Alugoro sebagai Awal Kemandirian Alutsista Nasional

Presiden Joko Widodo mengunjungi PT PAL Indonesia (Persero) di Kota Surabaya, Provinsi Jawa Timur, pada Senin, 27 Januari 2020. Pada kesempatan tersebut, Presiden meninjau langsung […]

www.pal.co.id

Test Skill Welder ke Korea Kembali Dihelat di PUSDIKLAT PAL Indonesia! - PUSDIKLAT PAL INDONESIA

안녕하세요 친구들！！ Hari pertama dalam bulan Februari, Kamis (1/02/23), PUSDIKLAT PAL Indonesia kembali berpartisipasi dalam terselenggaranya pengiriman calon welder ke Korea Selatan. Setelah partner sebelumnya, Samsung Heavy Industries telah berhasil mengirimkan calon pekerja asal Indonesia ke Korea...

www.pusdiklatpal.com

Top Jokowi! RI Satu-satunya Produsen Kapal Selam di ASEAN

Indonesia ternyata mampu memperkuat pertahanan lautnya dengan produksi dalam negeri melalui kapal selam KRI 405 Alugoro buatan PT PAL Indonesia (Persero).

www.cnbcindonesia.com

This is why PT PAL still insists that cooperation with Hanwha Ocean is in place (at least as of 2023) and Indonesia & PT PAL are liable for a contract concellation fee if they somehow decide not to execute the deal for additional 3 submarine with Korea & Hanwha Ocean.

 

[chibiyabi]

Again, I don't want you to claim this falsehood unless you have any substantial evidence. ..

you would not get that kind of info in open forum like this.. we indonesian just make conclusion why those 3 brand new submarines since it cames only act as hanggar queens when we badly needs them in the ocean. in our logic mind, our second batch Submarine should be in manufacturing process if the first batch do not have any problems, and per now we knew that there is a new negotiation process for the second batch which we believe to solve the first batch problem and make sure, the same problem will not occure the second batch..btw indonesia military enthuthiast (older ) knew that black innova is real.

you ask fro substantial evidence regarding the problems, the valid you can get from us just that info from navy officer, is that not formaly enough for you...the complains we sure go to hanhwa, but of course it wont be in this open forum, our navy officer clearly said there are problems to the submarines...and i sure that you would not get the problems substantial evidence from hanhwa/DSME