Indonesia Indonesian Navy, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Laut (TNI-AL)

[Anmdt]

Pardon my ignorance, but are there any rumors that our navy want to buy this kind of ship that I don't know of? Because, as far as I can recall, I haven't heard anything about it at all. With that said, if there's a rumor about buying one, I do agree with your points. We don't need to spend billions of dollars just to buy a ship that will likely becomes a huge financial burden to operate and maintain.

This makes me wonder though: If TNI-AL really needs a dedicated helicopter carrier, why can't they just look at what PT PAL can offer? Granted, PT PAL's concept is not as luxurious compared to American's LHA, but it is still within our capability to build and to expand it in the future - not to mention that with that amount of money we probably can build several of this:

Source.


We already have several LPDs though. 1 dedicated hospital ship, 1 LPD converted to hospital ship and 4 'pure' LPDs.

I can draw you a concept of 400 meters Aircraft Carrier how much would it relate to my capabilities regarding to the realization of it?
A major assistance will be needed for such a ship, i have no clue about the size but since there are 6 landing spots it is at least 220 meters ; Also as usual it seems to lack major electronics and command infastructure which will just elaborate another discussion. What makes USN LHA expensive is not the steel hull but the capabilities.
I mean this is valid for the current condition, however after several experiences regarding to the larger LPDs which i am going to mention in the second half of the post, i am sure PT PAL will be able to fulfill those concepts.

We already have several LPDs though. 1 dedicated hospital ship, 1 LPD converted to hospital ship and 4 'pure' LPDs.

That is why i indicated "large", a 180+ meters LPD with a larger landing deck allowing operations of heavy lift helicopters and ospreys.
Also better to be equipped with a decent C4C.
The current ones are small and can handle medium weight helicopters and i am doubtful about simultaneous operations in the current deck size as well.
The hospital ship which is 140+ (i might be wrong i assumed it to be larger) meters or design submitted for Malaysian MRSS seems like a good way to gain experience towards a larger 180+ meters LPD which will be an affordable local solution without an assistance.
Later those 200+ meters flat top designs can be revisited and worked on.

 

[Anmdt]

In AIS, you broadcast this data to other ships by the satellite so the other vessel know your dynamic data.
So even, if you far away from shore. Since its using Satellite, you still able to broadcast your data and other vessel near you will receive this broadcast as well.

AIS is more of a local broadcast system (within LOS and range is sometimes less due to the aforementioned reasons or due to difference between class A/B) , Sat- AIS is newly introduced and not all ships have a subscription for those. Moreover, ships may not be even interested in that because Sat- AIS is more used to replace passive coastal receivers allowing companies to track their fleets or authorities to inspect their EEZ easier without relying on coastal AIS.
Sat-AIS simply collects usual AIS broadcast, like terrestial AIS, and logs-categorizes-processes and delivers processed data to the customer, there is a lag in Sat-AIS data.

An AIS system is quite cheap by the way. It is quite primitive radio comm operating in fixed channels, operator has a few modes to select to declare ships condition, simple connectors for gnss and variables for the ship (speed/heading etc if needed). It is so simple that you can not force those guys to rely on satcom with a delay.

For more:

Sign In

 

[Panca]

This is a screenshot from PT PAL Instagram of their booth during Rapim Kemhan 2020. Look at the banner poster on the left. The bottom pic is a CGI of a LHD. Unfortunately i wasn't able to come to the exhibition if i could i would take a pic of that banner.

View attachment 20875

View attachment 20876

The top pic i'm guessing is a CGI of PT PAL 90 meter OPV and the middle is the LPD.

CGI of PT PAL 90 meter OPV.

View attachment 20877

The OPV of this class that must be reproduced, for weaponry is also according to our standards.

 

[Var Dracon]

This is a screenshot from PT PAL Instagram of their booth during Rapim Kemhan 2020. Look at the banner poster on the left. The bottom pic is a CGI of a LHD. Unfortunately i wasn't able to come to the exhibition if i could i would take a pic of that banner.

View attachment 20875

View attachment 20876

The top pic i'm guessing is a CGI of PT PAL 90 meter OPV and the middle is the LPD.

CGI of PT PAL 90 meter OPV.

View attachment 20877

It looks like the 244 m LPH like showed back in 2018

The old 190 m LPH is this:

There is no continuation of PT PAL's 190 m LPH concept.

 

[NEKO]

Rather than allocating resources to develop LPH, it is better to use it to develop indigenous corvette.

 

[FPXAllen]

Are you that naive enough to actually believe that PT PAL have a decent design offering for LHA

If that's a naivety, then so be it. But the fact that they had the guts to display such concept - especially after they managed to build LPDs - made it looks that building such design is not too far out of reach of PT PAL's capability.

 

[Mandala]

It looks like the 244 m LPH like showed back in 2018

The old 190 m LPH is this:

There is no continuation of PT PAL's 190 m LPH concept.

Yes indeed it looks like the 244 meter LPH but with more detail CGI.

 

[BBOn]

RM-70 Grad Kembali Perkuat Pasmar 3

15 Mei 2021 Debarkasi kendaraan RM 70 Grad dan amunisinya dari KRI Teluk Bintuni 520 (all photos : Korps Marinir) Di tengah perayaan Hari Ra...

defense-studies.blogspot.com

They are getting serious to bombard those insurgents

 

[Indos]

I can draw you a concept of 400 meters Aircraft Carrier how much would it relate to my capabilities regarding to the realization of it?
A major assistance will be needed for such a ship, i have no clue about the size but since there are 6 landing spots it is at least 220 meters ; Also as usual it seems to lack major electronics and command infastructure which will just elaborate another discussion. What makes USN LHA expensive is not the steel hull but the capabilities.
I mean this is valid for the current condition, however after several experiences regarding to the larger LPDs which i am going to mention in the second half of the post, i am sure PT PAL will be able to fulfill those concepts.

That is why i indicated "large", a 180+ meters LPD with a larger landing deck allowing operations of heavy lift helicopters and ospreys.
Also better to be equipped with a decent C4C.
The current ones are small and can handle medium weight helicopters and i am doubtful about simultaneous operations in the current deck size as well.
The hospital ship which is 140+ (i might be wrong i assumed it to be larger) meters or design submitted for Malaysian MRSS seems like a good way to gain experience towards a larger 180+ meters LPD which will be an affordable local solution without an assistance.
Later those 200+ meters flat top designs can be revisited and worked on.

That ship is based on PT PAL huge bulk carrier that they have already made, so it is clear they do have the capability to make it if Indonesia government make an order

They have made it since 2007

 

[Anmdt]

That ship is based on PT PAL huge bulk carrier that they have already made, so it is clear they do have the capability to make it if Indonesia government make an order

They have made it since 2007

Yes indeed, a bulk carrier is a very good reference for LPH / flat top LPD.

 

[Indos]

Yes indeed, a bulk carrier is a very good reference for LPH / flat top LPD.

The design is based on that Star 50, that is what has been stated by PT PAL and old forumer already know this basic knowledge

 

[Anmdt]

The design is based on that Star 50, that is what has been stated by PT PAL and old forumer already know this basic knowledge

And i am telling it simply makes no sense that i don't to elaborate future.

The best you can derive from a bulk carrier or tanker is a FOB, non-combat logistic ship with an elevated flat top to allow helicopter operations.

Korea actually makes "very large" bulk carriers unlike the normal sized bulk carrer you have shown, you don't see them making LPD / LHD from bulk carriers or showing it as a reference of capability.

If that makes sense to you or anybody else, its your own choice. I am giving you an objective technical point of view.

 

[Indos]

And i am telling it simply makes no sense that i don't to elaborate future.

The best you can derive from a bulk carrier or tanker is a FOB, non-combat logistic ship with an elevated flat top to allow helicopter operations.

Korea actually makes "very large" bulk carriers unlike the normal sized bulk carrer you have shown, you don't see them making LPD / LHD from bulk carriers or showing it as a reference of capability.

If that makes sense to you or anybody else, its your own choice. I am giving you an objective technical point of view.

Well of course they will do some modification, it is not like they will just put the design as it is, they are not stupid and has learned ship design plus with experience in shipbuilding, I am not an engineer so I cannot make any further comment

 

[Var Dracon]

Yes indeed, a bulk carrier is a very good reference for LPH / flat top LPD.

I'm sure he was referring to the discontinued 190 m LPH. For 244 m LPH we just simply has no evidence whether it's based on Star 50 bulk carrier or new design.

 

[Mandala]

I'm sure he was referring to the discontinued 190 m LPH. For 244 m LPH we just simply has no evidence whether it's based on Star 50 bulk carrier or new design.

Iinm the 244 meter LPH is based from the Makassar LPD. Forgot where i've read it.

 

[Var Dracon]

And i am telling it simply makes no sense that i don't to elaborate future.

The best you can derive from a bulk carrier or tanker is a FOB, non-combat logistic ship with an elevated flat top to allow helicopter operations.

Korea actually makes "very large" bulk carriers unlike the normal sized bulk carrer you have shown, you don't see them making LPD / LHD from bulk carriers or showing it as a reference of capability.

If that makes sense to you or anybody else, its your own choice. I am giving you an objective technical point of view.

Well of course they will do some modification, it is not like they will just put the design as it is, they are not stupid and has learned ship design plus with experience in shipbuilding, I am not an engineer so I cannot make any further comment

I did some reading, and it's turned out that LPH 190 m is not based on Star 50 bulk carrier. It was just misinterpretation (by online medias) of the premise that since Star 50 bulk carrier (189 m long) can be built by PT PAL, a ship as large as 190 m LPH can be built at PAL too (need to remind you the largest naval ship made by PAL is around 125 m long, so it is tempting for online medias to compare it with Star 50).

Iinm the 244 meter LPH is based from the Makassar LPD. Forgot where i've read it.

Mandala's statement would make more sense. They would have designed the 190 m and 244 m LPH based on the knowledge gained during the construction of Makassar LPD, but not necessarily based on Makassar LPD.

 

[Mandala]

I did some reading, and it's turned out that LPH 190 m is not based on Star 50 bulk carrier. It was just misinterpretation (by online medias) of the premise that since Star 50 bulk carrier (189 m long) can be built by PT PAL, a ship as large as 190 m LPH can be built at PAL too (need to remind you the largest naval ship made by PAL is around 125 m long, so it is tempting for online medias to compare it with Star 50).



Mandala's statement would make more sense. They would have designed the 190 m and 244 m LPH based on the knowledge gained during the construction of Makassar LPD, but not necessarily based on Makassar LPD.

Afaik the 190 meter LPH is based from a bulk carrier/tanker.

 

[Var Dracon]

Afaik the 190 meter LPH is based from a bulk carrier/tanker.

The oldest media source that mentioned about the relation between LPH 190 and Star 50 that I found is this:

Kapal Induk Helikopter Indonesia: Bila Ada Komitmen Pasti Bisa Diwujudkan

Gara-gara kabar melintasnya kapal induk USS Carl Vinson (CVN-70) di perairan Indonesia, beberapa netizen kembali menyuarakan, kapan Indonesia punya kapal induk? Untuk mempunyai kapal induk pesawat tempur, rasanya bagai pungguk merindukan bulan, terlebih memang tidak masuk dalam kajian pengadaan...

www.indomiliter.com

The author somehow associates the star 50 double skin build with the LPH hull, which makes little sense technically. PT PAL has experienced engineers engaged in ship construction for 20+ years, they are not military fansboy let alone a media reporter. They would understand that making an LPH based on civilian, completely different usage ship would make zero sense.

 

[Mandala]

The oldest media source that mentioned about the relation between LPH 190 and Star 50 that I found is this:

Kapal Induk Helikopter Indonesia: Bila Ada Komitmen Pasti Bisa Diwujudkan

Gara-gara kabar melintasnya kapal induk USS Carl Vinson (CVN-70) di perairan Indonesia, beberapa netizen kembali menyuarakan, kapan Indonesia punya kapal induk? Untuk mempunyai kapal induk pesawat tempur, rasanya bagai pungguk merindukan bulan, terlebih memang tidak masuk dalam kajian pengadaan...

www.indomiliter.com

The author somehow associates the star 50 double skin build with the LPH hull, which makes little sense technically. PT PAL has experienced engineers engaged in ship construction for 20+ years, they are not military fansboy let alone a media reporter. They would understand that making an LPH based on civilian, completely different usage ship would make zero sense.

Well i guess PT PAL is now focusing on the 244 meter LPH for future plan. It would be great if someone have the CGi pic of this 244 m LPH. Really curious of the detail design not that green one we already seen in the PT PAL presentation slide.

 

[JATOSINT]

RM-70 Grad Kembali Perkuat Pasmar 3

15 Mei 2021 Debarkasi kendaraan RM 70 Grad dan amunisinya dari KRI Teluk Bintuni 520 (all photos : Korps Marinir) Di tengah perayaan Hari Ra...

defense-studies.blogspot.com

They are getting serious to bombard those insurgents

I don't think so

It's part of TNI's bigger plan to strengthen our eastern flank (Pasmar III, Koarmada III, Divisi 3, dsb)

Pasmar 3 juga udah dari kapan tau nerima Tank/Armor