Indonesia Indonesian Navy, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Laut (TNI-AL)

[Anmdt]

I did some reading, and it's turned out that LPH 190 m is not based on Star 50 bulk carrier. It was just misinterpretation (by online medias) of the premise that since Star 50 bulk carrier (189 m long) can be built by PT PAL, a ship as large as 190 m LPH can be built at PAL too (need to remind you the largest naval ship made by PAL is around 125 m long, so it is tempting for online medias to compare it with Star 50).



Mandala's statement would make more sense. They would have designed the 190 m and 244 m LPH based on the knowledge gained during the construction of Makassar LPD, but not necessarily based on Makassar LPD.

I havent done much reading but 190m LPH seemed to have a commercial slow-going hull form highly resembling a bulker. Especially the bow form, beam and draft. It makes sense because prior to that US/UK had derived some FOB designs to supply deployed forces and fleets which was based on commercial ships.
To be honest experience gained from a small LPD wouldn't help towards a large flat top LHD / LPH. It would be vice-versa. They need some interim experience or assistance before stepping into the flat top league.
And as other members have outlined too, had better they spend sources on other designs which is needed more at the moment.

 

[Mandala]

I havent done much reading but 190m LPH seemed to have a commercial slow-going hull form highly resembling a bulker. Especially the bow form, beam and draft. It makes sense because prior to that US/UK had derived some FOB designs to supply deployed forces and fleets which was based on commercial ships.
To be honest experience gained from a small LPD wouldn't help towards a large flat top LHD / LPH. It would be vice-versa. They need some interim experience or assistance before stepping into the flat top league.
And as other members have outlined too, had better they spend sources on other designs which is needed more at the moment.

Agree. Priority should be surface combatant ships.

 

[Van Kravchenko]

I havent done much reading but 190m LPH seemed to have a commercial slow-going hull form highly resembling a bulker. Especially the bow form, beam and draft. It makes sense because prior to that US/UK had derived some FOB designs to supply deployed forces and fleets which was based on commercial ships.
To be honest experience gained from a small LPD wouldn't help towards a large flat top LHD / LPH. It would be vice-versa. They need some interim experience or assistance before stepping into the flat top league.
And as other members have outlined too, had better they spend sources on other designs which is needed more at the moment.

Its a long go for LHD, building military grade vessel with special capability cant be fruit- ripe in such short time.

Even PAL capability to independently build warship is still questionable.

Having both surface and underwater combat capability is the main focuse of oir naval asset today.

Post 2050, perhaps we can employ full scale CV.

 

[trishna_amrta]

Even PAL capability to independently build warship is still questionable.

Don't tell that here. About ¾ of posters here still love to entertain their naivety & chauvinist dreams. And they don't like when someone woke them up from that daydreaming.

 

[Van Kravchenko]

Don't tell that here. About ¾ of posters here still love to entertain their naivety & chauvinist dreams. And they don't like when someone woke them up from that daydreaming.

I hate when you did the survey ,

But sadly defenve private company in Indonesia are more than capable to surpass even the SOE company.

For me, Its better to throw the truth to the chauvistic people than let them overproud.

 

[Van Kravchenko]

One of his tweets:

"It's a catamaran hull, which lets it to get into shallow water and achieve high speed. That will reduce accommodation space though, and it looks like any passengers will have to live on the back deck. Not ideal for long voyages or the purported 40 knots."

^^^ Seem he didn't watch the X18 video.

^^^ Actually the passengers are accomodated in each side of the catamaran hull and some in the bridge and not on the back deck.

View attachment 20819

If this boat is intended to disembark assult troops ashore, its disembark mechanism especially rampart bridge should be revised.

If it still put in that way, the troops are vunerable get shot for being too much hi profile. Perhaps move the troops disembark system to the rear such as an APC will make sense.

Granted, PT PAL's concept is not as luxurious compared to American's LHA, but it is still within our capability to build and to expand it in the future - not to mention that with that amount of money we probably can build several of this:

This design is crap, they didnt even put a lift mechanism there.
Also fully flat top design with small sigle island is more advantage than make different height of deck.

At last, this LHD with Bulk carrier base design is far far away from get into productions

 

[Anmdt]

Post 2050, perhaps we can employ full scale CV.

PT. PAL should only focus on combatants/OPVs beyond a size and complexity they shouldn't be really be busy with rather simple platforms involving block assemblies and steel cutting at best, or very niche products like submarines. For the submarine business i am %100 sure, from technical point of view, submarine command of the Indonesian navy can handle it far better then commercial counterpart.

In my opinion;
- All Landing + Auxiliary classes should be given to a dedicated shipyard apart from PT. PAL,
- Another shipyard(s) should handle KCRs / Boats / FACs up to a size, (PT. Lundin, Palindo etc)
- Submarine facility should be taken away from PT. PAL, given under joint venture of Navy (technical supervisor) and Private/SOE (financial supervisor) management so that in case of an economical trouble or idling in production of submarines the personnel will not be relocated to another division and capabilites will be under protection.

PT. PAL is not Naval Group or ThyssenKrup, shouldn't be expected to act like them.

I hate when you did the survey ,

But sadly defenve private company in Indonesia are more than capable to surpass even the SOE company.

For me, Its better to throw the truth to the chauvistic people than let them overproud.

There should be a balance in between, knowing the capability and bashing them when they cross the line, but defending the companies and keeping their spirit up and promoting them as much as possible.

 

[schuimpjes]

For me, Its better to throw the truth to the chauvistic people than let them overproud.

Yes, their autarkic mindset are so extreme sometimes, kind of cringey even. In their mind are kind of like Indonesia vs Everybody things.

 

[Van Kravchenko]

PT. PAL should only focus on combatants/OPVs beyond a size and complexity they shouldn't be really be busy with rather simple platforms involving block assemblies and steel cutting at best, or very niche products like submarines. For the submarine business i am %100 sure, from technical point of view, submarine command of the Indonesian navy can handle it far better then commercial counterpart.

In my opinion;
- All Landing + Auxiliary classes should be given to a dedicated shipyard apart from PT. PAL,
- Another shipyard(s) should handle KCRs / Boats / FACs up to a size, (PT. Lundin, Palindo etc)
- Submarine facility should be taken away from PT. PAL, given under joint venture of Navy (technical supervisor) and Private/SOE (financial supervisor) management so that in case of an economical trouble or idling in production of submarines the personnel will not be relocated to another division and capabilites will be under protection.

PT. PAL is not Naval Group or ThyssenKrup, shouldn't be expected to act like them.

There should be a balance in between, knowing the capability and bashing them when they cross the line, but defending the companies and keeping their spirit up and promoting them as much as possible.

Am more less agree with you, but again its all back to money business.
Me myself never questionable the innovation of SOE.
but quality and capability should be increased soon.

Submarine forces and surfave combatant is in dire need.
For me its ok if SOE only capable to build one corvette ( i.e. Nahkoda ragam clas) per year, spamming them is also needed in current time.

 

[Umigami]

TNI AL Sebut Kapal China Gagal Angkut Anjungan KRI Nanggala

TNI AL menyampaikan pihak militer China sempat berusaha mengangkut bagian anjungan kapal selam KRI Nanggala-402, tapi gagal.

www.cnnindonesia.com

 

[Var Dracon]

TNI AL Sebut Kapal China Gagal Angkut Anjungan KRI Nanggala

TNI AL menyampaikan pihak militer China sempat berusaha mengangkut bagian anjungan kapal selam KRI Nanggala-402, tapi gagal.

www.cnnindonesia.com

This is one of my worries regarding the recovery using Chinese ships: Their equipment may not be strong enough. Timas DSV 1201 has a crane with reported loading capacity of 1200 metric tons, theoretically able to lift Nanggala's hull pieces.

 

[Van Kravchenko]

This is one of my worries regarding the recovery using Chinese ships: Their equipment may not be strong enough. Timas DSV 1201 has a crane with reported loading capacity of 1200 metric tons, theoretically able to lift Nanggala's hull pieces.

Add some 83 atm off pressure, sea water weight, sea current & etc.

Its not as simple as you had a bunch of muscle try to lift something sturdy laid in the bottom of sea

 

[BBOn]

The wight of the submarine will increase due the compartment already filled by water and mud. Lifting the submarine is one thing, but to set it free from the mud it self need more lifting power more than the power to lift the object it self.

Kri neggala Displacement around +1,200 tonnes submerged. This mean there still more volume that not filled water.
If we talk about lifting capacity to lift this submarine, then it supposedly based on her DWT divided to three sections of her body structure. My estimation for each section maybe have weight righ now around 750 - 900 Tonnes each. This is not include additional weight that caused by the mud absorbs.

 

[Panca]

https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=3656041591170824&id=181276675314017&set=pcb.3656042941170689&source=48&refid=13&__tn__=%2B%3D

Hopefully there will be no more batangkelapa armor.

 

[BBOn]

https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=3656041591170824&id=181276675314017&set=pcb.3656042941170689&source=48&refid=13&__tn__=%2B%3D

Hopefully there will be no more batangkelapa armor.

They need to improvise them self if they cannot mobilize such ifv or apc. Even British us their personal Bag to add more protection agaist small arm fires on their "war pig" M 1078

 

[Van Kravchenko]

Joint production of ships with Indonesia Strengthening security cooperation for the JMSDF prototype

2021.5.11 22:27
Political policy

Prime Minister's Office = Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo It was revealed on the 11th that the Japanese government is aiming to receive orders for ships from Indonesia using the "joint production" method based on the Maritime Self-Defense Force's escort ships. Under the three principles of defense equipment transfer formulated in 2014, "export" can only be permitted for equipment used for rescue and alert surveillance, and in order to transfer a escort ship capable of killing, it must be joint production, not export. This is because it is difficult to admit. It will be the first time if joint production of ships is realized.

Japan, Italy and Turkey are competing for orders for the relocation of ships to Indonesia. If Japan receives an order, through joint production, it will be possible to strengthen security cooperation with Indonesia, which is a major power of ASEAN (Association of Southeast Asian Nations) and is exposed to the intimidation of China in the South China Sea.

The first ship to be prototyped in joint production with Indonesia is the JMSDF's new escort ship "FFM", which is scheduled to be commissioned in March next year. In addition to anti-submarine warfare, anti-aircraft warfare, and naval battle, it also has anti-aircraft warfare functions.

Read more:

〈独自〉インドネシアと艦艇共同生産　海自装備原型に　安保協力を強化

日本政府が海上自衛隊の護衛艦を原型にした「共同生産」方式で、インドネシアへの艦艇の受注を目指すことが１１日、分かった。平成２６年策定の防衛装備移転三原則で「輸出…

www.sankei.com

at this rate and condition whatever weapon system will be bought, am fully support it; neglecting any logistical nightmare and compability issue.

 

[trishna_amrta]

The wight of the submarine will increase due the compartment already filled by water and mud. Lifting the submarine is one thing, but to set it free from the mud it self need more lifting power more than the power to lift the object it self.

Kri neggala Displacement around +1,200 tonnes submerged. This mean there still more volume that not filled water.
If we talk about lifting capacity to lift this submarine, then it supposedly based on her DWT divided to three sections of her body structure. My estimation for each section maybe have weight righ now around 750 - 900 Tonnes each. This is not include additional weight that caused by the mud absorbs.

This Its gold estimation there

 

[trishna_amrta]

https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=3656041591170824&id=181276675314017&set=pcb.3656042941170689&source=48&refid=13&__tn__=%2B%3D

Hopefully there will be no more batangkelapa armor.

You're underestimating coconut tree There is very good reason coconuts tree is use for improvised armour. They sure don't look pretty. But when real bullet began to flying for real, you won't be care about looking good any more.

 

[trishna_amrta]

Me myself never questionable the innovation of SOE.

Well... its certainly took a lot of innovating spirit + mindset to dodging KPK investigation (I wasn't referring to any specific SOE here)

 

[Jaka45]

Found this, KRI Nanggala seem like the Chinese already lifting some part of it ?