Indonesia Indonesian Navy, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Laut (TNI-AL)

Captain Wales

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Nah, I think 08 have personal grudge against anything submarine that Korean.
if we wanted to achieved the 12 (or some say 14 in latest) submarine plan, CBG is needed.
so we can fill our sub with 6 CBG, 4 TKMS*, 4/5 Scorpene*.


*if the "bocoran" from early this year are true.
 

Madokafc

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Nah, I think 08 have personal grudge against anything submarine that Korean.

His own relative is one of among the deceased crew of Nanggala, and Nanggala being retrofitted in South Korea before is more than enough reason to have some prejudice .....
 

Djketoprak

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if we wanted to achieved the 12 (or some say 14 in latest) submarine plan, CBG is needed.
so we can fill our sub with 6 CBG, 4 TKMS*, 4/5 Scorpene*.


*if the "bocoran" from early this year are true.
I agree if we continue CBG. But DSME have to fix all CBG problems
 

Madokafc

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Thailand Krabi class OPV, hope what PT DRU Made would be just as capable as this one

194886609_4068121519892378_8646363673273942628_n.jpg
 

Djketoprak

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They have problems? Even the one that build in the SoKor?
I have read some of articles. CBG has problem with battery and others thing. But most of curious thing is why CBG not yet fired any torpedo, why it has to be Nanggala(?) Probaly there is problem with CBG torpedo tube (Rumor in Socmed)
 

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well we can ask ToT from BAE System for river class OPV if we want to

When we would learn by ourselves? I more prefer to give them chances and if they got stuck we then can bought foreign design and lisenced thing we are really needed. Just like our so called Fast Attack Missiles Boats, they are seemed to stuck and now MoD trying to bought Turkish solution and asked for some help to improved local design

By the way it would be different from AAW purpose Frigates or large Frigates
 

Captain Wales

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I have read some of articles. CBG has problem with battery and others thing. But most of curious thing is why CBG not yet fired any torpedo, why it has to be Nanggala(?) Probaly there is problem with CBG torpedo tube (Rumor in Socmed)
didn't CBG and cakra-class use different torpedo?

cakra mostly use SUT while CBG use black shark (CMIIW here), maybe the navy wanted to empty the SUT stock before cakra-class retired?

also there's a news that nagapasa fired a black shark in 2019 (idk if it true or not)
 

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Madokafc

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man i thought you were messing with us by deliberately misspelled the word 'Vrygate' until i checked the source lol

Our PNS quality.... No comment further

But i am suspected 08 is really taking a deal with Japanese during 2+2 meeting not a long ago

Man this gonna be the strongest Indonesian Navy surface battle fleets formation ever since our independence day

Our supposed Future Surface combatant warships

2 Itver Huitveld (AAW Destroyer)
6 FREMM (General purpose Frigates or Destroyer you name it)
8 FFM 30 General purpose Frigates


2 Maestrale class ASW Frigates
2 Martadinata class Light Frigates
3 Bung Tomo class Corvette
3 Fatahillah class ASW Corvettes
4 Diponegoro class Corvettes

2 OPV 90 class by PT DRU

And there is still need to be replaced 13 Parchim class ASW/Patrol gun boat Corvettes

Btw, this kind of fleets need a lot of massive support units, started by ocean going tug boat, RAS LOGISTIC support ships, Intelligent surveilance vessels, Electronic warfare gathering vessels support ships, and other stuff.
 
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trishna_amrta

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Home»Event News»DEFEA 2021»A Close Look at 3 Frigates on the New Shortlist for the Hellenic Navy
DSEI 2021
Hellenic Navy Elli-class frigate Navarinon
Elli-class frigate Navarinon (F-461) Φ/Γ Ναυαρίνον of the Hellenic Navy. The new frigates will replace some of the Elli-class frigates. Likely the three non modernized ones: Themistocles, Kanaris and Nikifiros Fokas. Hellenic Navy picture.

A Close Look At 3 Frigates On The New Shortlist For The Hellenic Navy​

A shortlist was recently leaked for the future frigate of the Hellenic Navy. Naval News reviews in detail the three frigates at the top of this list.​

Lorenzo Tual 09 Jul 2021

In a previous article we reported about the alleged shortlist for the Hellenic Navy’s frigate competition. With the DEFEA defense exhibition in sight, we are now taking a close look at the ships in the so called “1st category” of this shortlist.

Sigma 11515 HN – Damen​

Damen Sigma 11515 Frigate for Hellenic Navy
One of the proposed designs for the Sigma 11515 HN, seen here with the more advanced integrated mast and APAR radars

It is not surprising to see Damen and their proposal at the top of this list. Indeed, it is a very cost effective choice with its powerful equipment at a relatively low price, complemented by additional options to further increase the ships’ capabilities if required, their Sigma 11515 HN frigate proposal is more than fitting for the Hellenic Navy.


The standard version proposed offers a 4,440 tons ship, equipped with CODLOG (Combined Diesel-Electric Or Gas) propulsion, allowing it to reach up to 30 knots and still be able to conduct ASW operations with the quieter electric motors.


The Sigma 11515 HN is equipped to face a wide range of threats, and as such is fitted with an array of advanced sensors and armament to effectively detect and destroy potential targets, all while ensuring the protection of the ship.


As such, this frigate is capable of protecting itself and other assets with its comprehensive surface-to-air defensive equipment. Proposed with 16 Mk 41 VLS cells, it will be able to fit up to 32 ESSMs SAMs or a mix of ESSMs and SM-2s for longer range defense. With a Mk 49 CIWS for an additional 21 RAM surface-to-air missiles, this ship can defend both from long range threats and saturation attacks.


Morevover, the Sigma 11515 HN is well equipped for ASW missions. Indeed, it is fitted with advanced sensors, Kingklip Mk.2 hull mounted sonar and CAPTAS variable depth sonar (VDS), both from Thales, as well as effectors with a pair of triple torpedo tubes.


For surface targets, the Sigma 11515 HN is fitted with the classic configuration of eight SSMs, here AGM-84 Harpoons. Naval artillery is not lacking either, with a 76mn/62cal Super Rapido main gun from Leonardo and three 20mn Narwhal remote weapon stations (RWS) from Nexter.


The protection of the ship is assured both from the numerous decoys launchers, for a total of 36, to defend from any threats, as well as its extensive electronic warfare equipment. It is composed of electronic support measures, communication support system, jammers, communication interception capabilities and laser warning receivers.


While this standard configuration is offered at the very competitive price of approximately 550 millions euros per unit, Damen offers different options to further the ship’s capabilities.


For instance, the main gun can receive the STRALES upgrade which brings improved capabilities in anti air warfare (including against incoming missiles). The RWS can be replaced by 30mn ones, the number of the VLS cells can be doubled to 32 and the NS110 radar can be switched for the more powerful NS200 or Sea Master 400 also from Thales.



The latest configuration of the Sigma 11515 which came out in early June

The most notable option is the version aimed at increasing AAW missions is offered for 600 millions euros with the standard equipment plus STRALES and the NS200 radar.


Like any other proposed ship here, this is not a perfect ship. However, while it can be critiqued on some aspects, most of the attacks against Damen’s frigate have been pushing the idea of a paper design, not mature enough to be selected by the Hellenic Navy.


These critiques are unfounded. First of all, the same could be argued about the other proposals, and would still be incorrect. The FDI-HN for instance, while originating from a design selected by the French Navy is technically also a paper design with the first ship delivered to the Marine Nationale only in 2023.


More importantly, major elements of the Sigma 11515 HN already are built, tested and operational. The complex diesel-electric engines for the CODLOG propulsion of the ship are already in place on the Holland class offshore patrol vessels of the Royal Netherlands Navy, built by Damen. Similarly, the SM400 radar proposed in some of the more advanced options for the ship is also fitted on the Holland class. This shipbuilder has vast experiences with this type of hulls, the 11515 HN being a variant of the Sigma family with the 9113 and the 10514. The armament itself is also fairly generic and proven, composed of Mk.41 VLS cells and a 76mn main gun from Leonardo, a common combination. As such, claims of immature or paper design do little sense.


As seen above, Damen proposed with this Sigma 11515 HN a cost efficient package, able to successfully meet the requirements of the Hellenic Navy and potentially exceed them with the different upgrades proposed in parallel with the standard version.


FDI-HN – Naval Group​

Greece FDI HN with STRALES Naval Group
Artist impression of the proposed FDI-HN from Naval Group (seen here with a STRALES main gun). Naval Group image.

This new announcement of the FDI-HN being selected in the first category is particularly good news for Naval Group considering the difficulties they encountered with this Greek contract and the efforts they made to improve their proposal each time.


Indeed, Naval Group was aiming for a Greek purchase of the FDI since 2018 with the initial negotiations between them and Lockheed Martins. Eventually these exclusive talks were stopped in favor of a contract opened to a wider range of competitors.


Still, Naval Group carried on and adapted to the new situation. The requirement of the Hellenic Navy required an improved proposal to add the necessary equipment while still fitting within the tight budget. These changes led to the current proposal with the FDI-HN frigate.


The selected design is a frigate of around 4,500 tons of displacement, 122 meters in lengths with a 17 meters beam. The propulsion would remain in the CODAD (Combined Diesel And Diesel) configuration found on the French version of the frigate, with a maximum speed of 27 knots.


The main improvement from the original French design concerns saturation attacks. Since it is equipped with the excellent Sea Fire radar from Thales and the Aster-30 surface to air missile, the FDI is more than capable to serve as an area-denial frigate. However, with only 16 missiles in the initial proposal, one per Sylver A50 VLS cell, its resistance against saturation attacks appeared to be limited.


To remedy this issue, the newest design incorporates 32 Sylver A50 VLS cells for a mix of Aster-15/30 and VL-Mica NG (which, unlike ESSM, can not be quad-packed). This puts the total missile output of the cells to 32, double that of the original proposal. Moreover, this new frigate is also equipped with the Mk 49 CIWS with its 21 RAM missiles for close defense. This new package ensures the ship’s protection even against the most potent attacks.


As usual with French frigates, the ship proposed by Naval Group is well equipped for ASW missions. With a Kingklip Mk.2 hull mounted sonar and a CAPTAS 4C variable depth sonar, both from Thales, this frigate is equipped with some of the most advanced sensors available today for submarine hunting missions. MU90 lightweight torpedoes in twin tubes on each side of the hull are set to ensure the destruction of the detected threats.


Armed with eight SSMs in the form of MM40 Exocet Block IIIc (the latest variant of the missiles, with the new coherent seeker), a Leonardo Super Rapido 76mn/62cal main gun (or STRALES as an option) and two 20mm Narwhal RWS, the compact hull packs a rather powerful punch.


There still are issues with the French proposal, most of them originating from the initial French Navy requirements for their version of the FDI, shaping research and development.


Indeed, with all its qualities the ship still lacks any form of ECM, a significant flaw for a 21st century front line warship, set to operate in contested waters. In addition, while the ship is equipped for the naval version of the SCALP cruise missile, and is proposed with it, there are still concerns on whether or not the its integration price will be included in the final proposal.


Thus, we still have to wait to see what the final result will be but it is certain that Naval Group have now a solid proposal for the Hellenic Navy and have shown their determination and adaptation skills in this competition.

FREMM – Fincantieri​

F-590-ITS-Carlo-Bergamini-02-1-1024x601.jpg
The Carlo Bergamini from the Italian Navy, a FREMM in General Purpose (GP) variant

Italian shipbuilder Fincantieri is the third company that made on this shortlist for the future frigate of the Hellenic Navy. This comes as quite a surprise since Fincantieri remained quite secretive on their offer as far as to what ship they would actually offer to Greece.


Rumours went all over the place, with some contradictory elements being mentioned from reputable sources. The main question was whether the FREMM-IT would be proposed or if it would be another ship such as a design derived from the Doha class air defence corvette.


However, with the recent successes of the FREMM design, the basic design of which was adopted for the US Navy’s Constellation class frigate, the two ships sold to Egypt in 2020 or the recent contract for the Indonesian Navy, it is quite likely that Fincantieri will try to capitalize on these achievements to promote the design to the Hellenic Navy, and as such it will be the ship we will study here.


The FREMM is a ship originating from a Franco-Italian agreement to build a common class of frigates. In the end two different designs emerged with two subclasses within the Italian FREMM, the general purpose (GP) and anti submarine warfare (ASW) versions. Initial rumors concerned the GP, general purpose, version for the Hellenic Navy.


This is a quite heavy frigate, displacing 6,700 tons for 144 meters and a nearly 20 meters beam. The Italian selected a CODLAG, Combined Diesel-Electric And Gas, propulsion configuration to allow for speeds in excess of 30 knots. With its size, this frigate can accommodate two helicopters in its two dedicated hangars, as opposed to only one on the French version.


The FREMM is fitted with an impressive set of sensors allowing it to adequately detect potential threats early on to ensure the protection of the ship and neighboring critical assets. Notable elements here include the excellent Kronos 3D radar from Leonardo, capable of more than 300km range, as well as the long list of complementary radar equipment such as the RAN-30X 2D medium range radar, the IRST SASS, silent acquisition and surveillance system, the 2D LPI, low probability of interception, surveillance radar and even the UMS 4110 CL hull sonar from Thales. This list is not exhaustive, many others equally as vital sensors being installed, but it is not desired to list all of them here, the excellent blog of Dimitri Mitch, Naval Analyses, should help those interested.


For its protection the frigate can count on a capable complement of decoys with the SLCAR-H decoys launchers, as well as the advanced electronic warfare systems present on the vessel. These are the NETTUNO 4100 ECM from Elettronica, found on all versions of the FREMMs and the ALTESSE C-ESM and COMMIT system from Thales.


The FREMM-It is armed with 16 Sylver A50 VLS cells for Aster 15/30 with another 16 behind available for 16 A70 if need be to equip cruise missiles. It is also fitted with eight SSMs, in the form of Teseo Mk.2 from MBDA, which can be changed for the MILAS ASW version if required. To complement this ASW capability, triple torpedo tubes are present on each side for the MU90 lightweight torpedo.


As it is often the case with Italian designs, the naval artillery is more than adequate. Indeed, it is armed with a 127mn/64cal main gun from Leonardo with the VULCANO upgrade, allowing it to reach targets at 100km with precision. A 76mn/62cal cannon is also equiped at the rear with the STRALES upgrade to enhance its capabilities and serve as a CIWS. Finally, two remotely controlled 25mn autocannons on each side complete this impressive display of firepower.


As seen here, the FREMM-IT from Fincantieri is a more than capable design. However, this also reflects in its price with it being the most expensive option on this list, at around 700 millions euros per unit. It must still be said that in the end, with crew training, maintenance and all other often overlooked factors, the original price difference might actually not differ significantly from each proposal, depending on how they are compared.


If this is the ship that ends up being proposed by Fincantieri, the Hellenic Navy will potentially have a very powerful new navy in its hands, if they can afford it. While initial rumors mentioned a FREMM in GP configuration, new ones tend to point towards an export variant of the “American FREMM” (i.e. Constellation class frigate) or a FREMM GP with US-made weapons and sensors. Naval News will make sure to shed light on this next week directly with the Italian shipbuilder, during DEFEA.


Conclusion​

As seen here all of the shortlisted proposals for the Hellenic Navy would deliver a perfectly capable frigate, some more armed, some more expensive. And don’t forget the proposals in the so called “2nd” and “3rd” categories too, which may still win the tender. In the end we have to keep in mind that this is a non-exhaustive overview of an incredibly complex selection process, and that these ships are not in a vacuum, they are a part of a larger proposal and that other geopolitical factors will inevitably play in the final decision. Moreover, and as we have seen throughout this competition, things can change, these proposals are not set in stone and could evolve to better adapt to the situation. We only have to wait and see what the final result will be, and probably the best place to follow these events directly from Greece would be the excellent Naval Defense website.


Price wise Fincantieri seems the most expensive ones, but they offer the best configuration among all of the participant and if you looking closely even the less expensive Damen 11515 is already 550-600 million Euros with such meager config compared

We can see and learning from this competition though
 

NEKO

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Home»Event News»DEFEA 2021»A Close Look at 3 Frigates on the New Shortlist for the Hellenic Navy
DSEI 2021
Hellenic Navy Elli-class frigate Navarinon
Elli-class frigate Navarinon (F-461) Φ/Γ Ναυαρίνον of the Hellenic Navy. The new frigates will replace some of the Elli-class frigates. Likely the three non modernized ones: Themistocles, Kanaris and Nikifiros Fokas. Hellenic Navy picture.

A Close Look At 3 Frigates On The New Shortlist For The Hellenic Navy​

A shortlist was recently leaked for the future frigate of the Hellenic Navy. Naval News reviews in detail the three frigates at the top of this list.​

Lorenzo Tual 09 Jul 2021

In a previous article we reported about the alleged shortlist for the Hellenic Navy’s frigate competition. With the DEFEA defense exhibition in sight, we are now taking a close look at the ships in the so called “1st category” of this shortlist.

Sigma 11515 HN – Damen​

Damen Sigma 11515 Frigate for Hellenic Navy
One of the proposed designs for the Sigma 11515 HN, seen here with the more advanced integrated mast and APAR radars

It is not surprising to see Damen and their proposal at the top of this list. Indeed, it is a very cost effective choice with its powerful equipment at a relatively low price, complemented by additional options to further increase the ships’ capabilities if required, their Sigma 11515 HN frigate proposal is more than fitting for the Hellenic Navy.


The standard version proposed offers a 4,440 tons ship, equipped with CODLOG (Combined Diesel-Electric Or Gas) propulsion, allowing it to reach up to 30 knots and still be able to conduct ASW operations with the quieter electric motors.


The Sigma 11515 HN is equipped to face a wide range of threats, and as such is fitted with an array of advanced sensors and armament to effectively detect and destroy potential targets, all while ensuring the protection of the ship.


As such, this frigate is capable of protecting itself and other assets with its comprehensive surface-to-air defensive equipment. Proposed with 16 Mk 41 VLS cells, it will be able to fit up to 32 ESSMs SAMs or a mix of ESSMs and SM-2s for longer range defense. With a Mk 49 CIWS for an additional 21 RAM surface-to-air missiles, this ship can defend both from long range threats and saturation attacks.


Morevover, the Sigma 11515 HN is well equipped for ASW missions. Indeed, it is fitted with advanced sensors, Kingklip Mk.2 hull mounted sonar and CAPTAS variable depth sonar (VDS), both from Thales, as well as effectors with a pair of triple torpedo tubes.


For surface targets, the Sigma 11515 HN is fitted with the classic configuration of eight SSMs, here AGM-84 Harpoons. Naval artillery is not lacking either, with a 76mn/62cal Super Rapido main gun from Leonardo and three 20mn Narwhal remote weapon stations (RWS) from Nexter.


The protection of the ship is assured both from the numerous decoys launchers, for a total of 36, to defend from any threats, as well as its extensive electronic warfare equipment. It is composed of electronic support measures, communication support system, jammers, communication interception capabilities and laser warning receivers.


While this standard configuration is offered at the very competitive price of approximately 550 millions euros per unit, Damen offers different options to further the ship’s capabilities.


For instance, the main gun can receive the STRALES upgrade which brings improved capabilities in anti air warfare (including against incoming missiles). The RWS can be replaced by 30mn ones, the number of the VLS cells can be doubled to 32 and the NS110 radar can be switched for the more powerful NS200 or Sea Master 400 also from Thales.



The latest configuration of the Sigma 11515 which came out in early June

The most notable option is the version aimed at increasing AAW missions is offered for 600 millions euros with the standard equipment plus STRALES and the NS200 radar.


Like any other proposed ship here, this is not a perfect ship. However, while it can be critiqued on some aspects, most of the attacks against Damen’s frigate have been pushing the idea of a paper design, not mature enough to be selected by the Hellenic Navy.


These critiques are unfounded. First of all, the same could be argued about the other proposals, and would still be incorrect. The FDI-HN for instance, while originating from a design selected by the French Navy is technically also a paper design with the first ship delivered to the Marine Nationale only in 2023.


More importantly, major elements of the Sigma 11515 HN already are built, tested and operational. The complex diesel-electric engines for the CODLOG propulsion of the ship are already in place on the Holland class offshore patrol vessels of the Royal Netherlands Navy, built by Damen. Similarly, the SM400 radar proposed in some of the more advanced options for the ship is also fitted on the Holland class. This shipbuilder has vast experiences with this type of hulls, the 11515 HN being a variant of the Sigma family with the 9113 and the 10514. The armament itself is also fairly generic and proven, composed of Mk.41 VLS cells and a 76mn main gun from Leonardo, a common combination. As such, claims of immature or paper design do little sense.


As seen above, Damen proposed with this Sigma 11515 HN a cost efficient package, able to successfully meet the requirements of the Hellenic Navy and potentially exceed them with the different upgrades proposed in parallel with the standard version.

FDI-HN – Naval Group​

Greece FDI HN with STRALES Naval Group
Artist impression of the proposed FDI-HN from Naval Group (seen here with a STRALES main gun). Naval Group image.

This new announcement of the FDI-HN being selected in the first category is particularly good news for Naval Group considering the difficulties they encountered with this Greek contract and the efforts they made to improve their proposal each time.


Indeed, Naval Group was aiming for a Greek purchase of the FDI since 2018 with the initial negotiations between them and Lockheed Martins. Eventually these exclusive talks were stopped in favor of a contract opened to a wider range of competitors.


Still, Naval Group carried on and adapted to the new situation. The requirement of the Hellenic Navy required an improved proposal to add the necessary equipment while still fitting within the tight budget. These changes led to the current proposal with the FDI-HN frigate.


The selected design is a frigate of around 4,500 tons of displacement, 122 meters in lengths with a 17 meters beam. The propulsion would remain in the CODAD (Combined Diesel And Diesel) configuration found on the French version of the frigate, with a maximum speed of 27 knots.


The main improvement from the original French design concerns saturation attacks. Since it is equipped with the excellent Sea Fire radar from Thales and the Aster-30 surface to air missile, the FDI is more than capable to serve as an area-denial frigate. However, with only 16 missiles in the initial proposal, one per Sylver A50 VLS cell, its resistance against saturation attacks appeared to be limited.


To remedy this issue, the newest design incorporates 32 Sylver A50 VLS cells for a mix of Aster-15/30 and VL-Mica NG (which, unlike ESSM, can not be quad-packed). This puts the total missile output of the cells to 32, double that of the original proposal. Moreover, this new frigate is also equipped with the Mk 49 CIWS with its 21 RAM missiles for close defense. This new package ensures the ship’s protection even against the most potent attacks.


As usual with French frigates, the ship proposed by Naval Group is well equipped for ASW missions. With a Kingklip Mk.2 hull mounted sonar and a CAPTAS 4C variable depth sonar, both from Thales, this frigate is equipped with some of the most advanced sensors available today for submarine hunting missions. MU90 lightweight torpedoes in twin tubes on each side of the hull are set to ensure the destruction of the detected threats.


Armed with eight SSMs in the form of MM40 Exocet Block IIIc (the latest variant of the missiles, with the new coherent seeker), a Leonardo Super Rapido 76mn/62cal main gun (or STRALES as an option) and two 20mm Narwhal RWS, the compact hull packs a rather powerful punch.


There still are issues with the French proposal, most of them originating from the initial French Navy requirements for their version of the FDI, shaping research and development.


Indeed, with all its qualities the ship still lacks any form of ECM, a significant flaw for a 21st century front line warship, set to operate in contested waters. In addition, while the ship is equipped for the naval version of the SCALP cruise missile, and is proposed with it, there are still concerns on whether or not the its integration price will be included in the final proposal.


Thus, we still have to wait to see what the final result will be but it is certain that Naval Group have now a solid proposal for the Hellenic Navy and have shown their determination and adaptation skills in this competition.

FREMM – Fincantieri​

F-590-ITS-Carlo-Bergamini-02-1-1024x601.jpg
The Carlo Bergamini from the Italian Navy, a FREMM in General Purpose (GP) variant

Italian shipbuilder Fincantieri is the third company that made on this shortlist for the future frigate of the Hellenic Navy. This comes as quite a surprise since Fincantieri remained quite secretive on their offer as far as to what ship they would actually offer to Greece.


Rumours went all over the place, with some contradictory elements being mentioned from reputable sources. The main question was whether the FREMM-IT would be proposed or if it would be another ship such as a design derived from the Doha class air defence corvette.


However, with the recent successes of the FREMM design, the basic design of which was adopted for the US Navy’s Constellation class frigate, the two ships sold to Egypt in 2020 or the recent contract for the Indonesian Navy, it is quite likely that Fincantieri will try to capitalize on these achievements to promote the design to the Hellenic Navy, and as such it will be the ship we will study here.


The FREMM is a ship originating from a Franco-Italian agreement to build a common class of frigates. In the end two different designs emerged with two subclasses within the Italian FREMM, the general purpose (GP) and anti submarine warfare (ASW) versions. Initial rumors concerned the GP, general purpose, version for the Hellenic Navy.


This is a quite heavy frigate, displacing 6,700 tons for 144 meters and a nearly 20 meters beam. The Italian selected a CODLAG, Combined Diesel-Electric And Gas, propulsion configuration to allow for speeds in excess of 30 knots. With its size, this frigate can accommodate two helicopters in its two dedicated hangars, as opposed to only one on the French version.


The FREMM is fitted with an impressive set of sensors allowing it to adequately detect potential threats early on to ensure the protection of the ship and neighboring critical assets. Notable elements here include the excellent Kronos 3D radar from Leonardo, capable of more than 300km range, as well as the long list of complementary radar equipment such as the RAN-30X 2D medium range radar, the IRST SASS, silent acquisition and surveillance system, the 2D LPI, low probability of interception, surveillance radar and even the UMS 4110 CL hull sonar from Thales. This list is not exhaustive, many others equally as vital sensors being installed, but it is not desired to list all of them here, the excellent blog of Dimitri Mitch, Naval Analyses, should help those interested.


For its protection the frigate can count on a capable complement of decoys with the SLCAR-H decoys launchers, as well as the advanced electronic warfare systems present on the vessel. These are the NETTUNO 4100 ECM from Elettronica, found on all versions of the FREMMs and the ALTESSE C-ESM and COMMIT system from Thales.


The FREMM-It is armed with 16 Sylver A50 VLS cells for Aster 15/30 with another 16 behind available for 16 A70 if need be to equip cruise missiles. It is also fitted with eight SSMs, in the form of Teseo Mk.2 from MBDA, which can be changed for the MILAS ASW version if required. To complement this ASW capability, triple torpedo tubes are present on each side for the MU90 lightweight torpedo.


As it is often the case with Italian designs, the naval artillery is more than adequate. Indeed, it is armed with a 127mn/64cal main gun from Leonardo with the VULCANO upgrade, allowing it to reach targets at 100km with precision. A 76mn/62cal cannon is also equiped at the rear with the STRALES upgrade to enhance its capabilities and serve as a CIWS. Finally, two remotely controlled 25mn autocannons on each side complete this impressive display of firepower.


As seen here, the FREMM-IT from Fincantieri is a more than capable design. However, this also reflects in its price with it being the most expensive option on this list, at around 700 millions euros per unit. It must still be said that in the end, with crew training, maintenance and all other often overlooked factors, the original price difference might actually not differ significantly from each proposal, depending on how they are compared.


If this is the ship that ends up being proposed by Fincantieri, the Hellenic Navy will potentially have a very powerful new navy in its hands, if they can afford it. While initial rumors mentioned a FREMM in GP configuration, new ones tend to point towards an export variant of the “American FREMM” (i.e. Constellation class frigate) or a FREMM GP with US-made weapons and sensors. Naval News will make sure to shed light on this next week directly with the Italian shipbuilder, during DEFEA.


Conclusion​

As seen here all of the shortlisted proposals for the Hellenic Navy would deliver a perfectly capable frigate, some more armed, some more expensive. And don’t forget the proposals in the so called “2nd” and “3rd” categories too, which may still win the tender. In the end we have to keep in mind that this is a non-exhaustive overview of an incredibly complex selection process, and that these ships are not in a vacuum, they are a part of a larger proposal and that other geopolitical factors will inevitably play in the final decision. Moreover, and as we have seen throughout this competition, things can change, these proposals are not set in stone and could evolve to better adapt to the situation. We only have to wait and see what the final result will be, and probably the best place to follow these events directly from Greece would be the excellent Naval Defense website.


Price wise Fincantieri seems the most expensive ones, but they offer the best configuration among all of the participant and if you looking closely even the less expensive Damen 11515 is already 550-600 million Euros with such meager config compared

We can see and learning from this competition though
If Fincantieri also win this contract that would be super mama mia, and their salesman must be quite good.
Its like when you able to pull some multiple combo moves consecutively in fighting games.

But FREMM is bigger and more expensive compared to other contender, is there any info about their allocated budget for this?
 

Madokafc

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If Fincantieri also win this contract that would be super mama mia, and their salesman must be quite good.
Its like when you able to pull some multiple combo moves consecutively in fighting games.

But FREMM is bigger and more expensive compared to other contender, is there any info about their allocated budget for this?

Greece arm transfer and operational Costs mostly funded by European consortium backed by the other larger European countries, they are sorta off the Egypt of Euro (in which Egypt backed by the Oil Seikh)

Of course if Fincantieri can get the deal it would affect Indonesian Navy FREMM programme too, as there is more internasional customer mean more availability of sparepart and support services at long term. Not to mention of the said customer can get the offset deal to produce their own sparepart and services support too (one big reason to choose FREMM is the US Navy with their Constelation class)
 

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Of course if Fincantieri can get the deal it would affect Indonesian Navy FREMM programme too, as there is more internasional customer mean more availability of sparepart and support services at long term. Not to mention of the said customer can get the offset deal to produce their own sparepart and services support too (one big reason to choose FREMM is the US Navy with their Constelation class)
it also mean that our FREMM arrival time would take a bit long because Fincantieri just not focusing on our order only but the greece one (if they won it).


(one big reason to choose FREMM is the US Navy with their Constelation class)
i wouldn't put much hope in commonality with US one because they got a history of putting their manufacture first, that's mean that most part on those ship are going to be a using US product on them (one that got commonality with their existing ship) not the one that use on IT fremm.


even in FR and IT fremm there's not much commonality between them, it just that they happen to share common hull. i would assume that the US one would be the same, the third variant of fremm.
 

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Fincantieri just not focusing on our order only but the greece one (if they won it).
Oh my, i hope we could get faster from their 2 slot ITA navy replacements. 20 order from US, 6 from ID, 2 from Morocco , 4 from Greece if they won. In my opinion Even FREMM has higher price tag, FREMM is mature than 2 other contender. Both FDI and Damen concept not yet operated.
 

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