Indonesian Politics (History, Issue, culture etc)

Joe Shearer

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Youve already displayed your lack of knowledge of Christianity and politics here on the NT Rust. You have no leg to stand on in either of those two realms. Leave these discussions to the adults ok? Thatd be great, thanks.
As a matter of vulgar curiosity, whom did you demolish with this message?
 

Joe Shearer

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Long story in itself... Israel labour did lot of goof ups (but who didn't?), huge swathes of Israeli public lost confidence in the old stewardship ( meir et al. at the time) after Yom Kippur war...it served as opening for the old irgun cadre like Begin....and Likud story starts there more or less (consolidating all the right splinter groups).

Begin got a huge boost when Sadat saw him as credible party to sign peace deal with (precisely because Begin was "new" and was on the right so any peace deal would hold up for the rest of the disposition).

After this all kind of parties and leaders filled old socks and went running a bit differently now that Egypt (and Jordan) were out of the existential threat picture and the left-economic model was starting to stagnate, a new quagmire opening up in Lebanon and the reagan era consolidated certain political structures for the next few decades.

There is a massive irony behind this all as always....if you explore the (essentially peace-oriented) persona of folks like Gurion, Meir, Eshkol, Yigal, Peres and even Rabin (the many debates and interplay they had between themselves too on what Israel fundamentally ought to be and become), their early lives specifically.....and contrast them with folks like Begin, Shamir and Sharon (though Sharon was very complicated fellow let me say that)....and of course Barak and Bibi.

But so often the case, the less-inherently-peaceful folks are often seen as more credible by the outsiders to deal with (in making peace ironically)...because the peaceful-types are fighting us anyway (and whats the deal with that?...thats on them not us, we're the cleanest, honest folks etc)

This all imposes heavily on small country like Israel.
Your reply just increased my melancholy. It was sad to contemplate those good-hearted Titans, ben Gurion, Meir, Eshkol, Yigal, Peres (my particular favourite - one of the very few world figures whose hand I would like to have shaken), and Rabin - I wouldn't tag on Rabin, who ultimately paid his dues in full, with interest, but include him in the first circle. What a contrast to Begin, Shamir and Sharon, all figures whom I deeply disliked then, and continue to loathe even today. However, I wish you hadn't completed your sentence as you did; left me with a feeling of puke in my mouth.
 

Nilgiri

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I wouldn't tag on Rabin

Oh definitely, he is probably the one of them I most identify with myself. He had massive disagreements and arguments with just about everybody (esp Peres)...he had his fair share of mistakes in his younger years.

But a headstrong fellow with enough daring and boldness when it was called for (if you look at his resume but also his operations planning) and a very stoic outlook to Israel needing to make peace too. It was particularly heartening to see him mature over the course of time. Yet another biography I could go at length about (I was most enthralled with Israel's history for a couple years where I intensely studied and poured over it) but it will be off-topic here....so maybe another time.

I miss these old school lefties joe, I really do. The salt of earth, honest, direct, democratic socialists bristling with stoic patriotism, ready to put in the hard work and blood, sweat and tears...some of the best folks in general period. They just aren't found anymore in power corridors these days in the same calibre (imo), we are all poorer for it.

"Which side are you on boys?...Which side are you on?" - Pete Seeger
 

Madokafc

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Hope the next Deputy of MoD is Mr Purnomo Yusgiantoro
 

trishna_amrta

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Hope the next Deputy of MoD is Mr Purnomo Yusgiantoro
That still assuming the billed would be fill in. Ever consider the possibility there won't be anyone there?
I don't see any former minister would fill in any Deputy billet
 

R4duga

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irjen herindra were choosen eventually
1608694595499.png
 

morningstar

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JKW administration seem fine with "Rangkap jabatan"
PRAGMATISM THROUGH THE ROOF wkwk. But, I don't think the new wamenhan will still be an active military personnel, he must be retired early. Even if the president ordered him to do the things that required him to get out of the military, he sure be "siap, laksanakan".
 

trishna_amrta

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I'm loathing as when we will ever get someone from related industrial background for MenKomInfo. So far only Rudiantara that fare decently in that post.
 

Madokafc

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Menkominfo should be abolished, along with lembaga sensor
 

trishna_amrta

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Menkominfo should be abolished, along with lembaga sensor
MenKomInfo is needed. Every country have their own ministerial level regulatory body pertinent to telecommunication & cyberspace. Without a regulatory body it will be a serious cluster f of mess out there. Regulating radio frequency alone already complex task by itself let alone interconnectivity, cyberspace, etc.

Regarding censorship. My long time standing principle was to revolve around open & inclusive cyberspace. And I've despised anything that has to do with censorship. HOWEVER, in day to day practice, I kept seeing a bunch of children's watching porn or worse watching preaching such as that came from "Habib" on their phone. Seeing those made me now believe that there is indeed a need to set some kind of "entrance barrier" for cyberspace usage. Not only for those underage but for the whole public as a whole. And as we currently stand there is some "entrance barrier" for cyberspace. It ain't perfect, but at least it gives some barrier for the general public against some contents, while people like me can always enjoy free & open cyberspace anyway I want. It doesn't have to be perfect, as long its work.
 

morningstar

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I kept seeing a bunch of children's watching porn or worse watching preaching such as that came from "Habib" on their phone.
I think we still can have "open internet" without censorship. Porn, we can make regulation that the consumer that can access that will be only adult, how is that?, let some smart and bright people think about that or maybe hire McKinsey to formulate that, so not whole censorship but targeted.

About all of that soft radicalization maybe we can make security project to do counter narrations against them. Counter narrations are quite effective, at least we make em busy. So, no censorship happen.

What I just said were "angel version" way to done the jobs. I open for "evil version" too.
 

trishna_amrta

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I think we still can have "open internet" without censorship. Porn, we can make regulation that the consumer that can access that will be only adult, how is that?, let some smart and bright people think about that
Well I'm not anywhere bright or smart, in most test my IQ is hovering somewhere between 88 and 96 or so (TBH I'm kinda idiot here). However, limiting accessing porn content to adult is practically impossible.

About all of that soft radicalization maybe we can make security project to do counter narrations against them. Counter narrations are quite effective, at least we make em busy. So, no censorship happen.
The current administration is actually doing that. Unfortunately, with so many hardships (too long to list) either deliberately or accidentally imposed by our own gov't in day to day life, many would flock to radicalization narrative even without religious motive in the first place (saw that happen to 2 of my personal friend)
 

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