TR Industry, Science and Technology

[Pilatino]

Surely it is simpler to outright buy a bunch of ASML's latest and greatest and establish a giant plant and be done with it.
Here's the problem tho. Semiconductor tech is progressing on an annual basis. That means making the same tens of billions dollars worth of investment EVERY. SINGLE. YEAR. And you just cannot skip steps. Being 5 years behind on semiconductor tech is a gap wider than the Grand Canyon.
And also the US is REALLY into using semiconductor tech to make sure that everyone bends the knee. This is a field that they OWN. The ASML is their bitch. Just ask China. They just learned this the hard way.

To cut a long story short, we MUST make our own lithography machines, come hell or high water.

We've already made that machine in one of our technoparks but that's not enough of course. I'm sure our state is swerve of the possibilities related to it and we'll see some more news in near future.

 

[what]

We dont have a single fab, and you seriously want to talk about building your own Lithography machines. That includes not only the machine itself but also the Zeiss Optics, Triumpf lasers and that's only scratching the surface. Semiconductors are not like defence equipment, there is a lot of international cooperation. ASML is working and developing their newer products together with their customers. TSMC is developing their newest products with their customers, there's a deep level of integration.

Sanctions are only applied to the Chinese and even then only for the newest technology. We should be glad if we can get some of the maturerer nodes up and running in Turkey midterm. Most newcomers in the market start by buying used equipment and older patented technology from established companies and go from there. And even then the initial investments are high and success is not guaranteed.

Singapore failed, Japanese companies succeeded but are failing now mostly, UK failed afaik, UAE bought a bunch of failing companies and named it Global Foundries, and they are still falling behind and losing money. Even with all the Oil money in the world.

If we can pull a TOGG and get our Consumer Electronics companies to fund and commit to buy the products, that could be a way.

 

[Pilatino]

We dont have a single fab, and you seriously want to talk about building your own Lithography machines. That includes not only the machine itself but also the Zeiss Optics, Triumpf lasers and that's only scratching the surface. Semiconductors are not like defence equipment, there is a lot of international cooperation. ASML is working and developing their newer products together with their customers. TSMC is developing their newest products with their customers, there's a deep level of integration.

Sanctions are only applied to the Chinese and even then only for the newest technology. We should be glad if we can get some of the maturerer nodes up and running in Turkey midterm. Most newcomers in the market start by buying used equipment and older patented technology from established companies and go from there. And even then the initial investments are high and success is not guaranteed.

Singapore failed, Japanese companies succeeded but are failing now mostly, UK failed afaik, UAE bought a bunch of failing companies and named it Global Foundries, and they are still falling behind and losing money. Even with all the Oil money in the world.

If we can pull a TOGG and get our Consumer Electronics companies to fund and commit to buy the products, that could be a way.

Sounds great if it's impossible that means we can do it btw if UAE in it it's much better cuz Qatar can help us by funding it like a jv. Call me delusional but I know that even if there's just a little bit possiblity then we can do it in time/somehow.

 

[Huelague]

Sounds great if it's impossible that means we can do it btw if UAE in it it's much better cuz Qatar can help us by funding it like a jv. Call me delusional but I know that even if there's just a little bit possiblity then we can do it in time/somehow.

I would prefer a branch in USA.

 

[what]

We're late to the party, but TSMC and UMC Number 1 and 3 in the world based in Taiwan have both started as:

1. Government research institute was funded for R&D
2. Technology was bought abroad
3. They got it running
4. Spin off as a private or partly private company.

It can be repeated and copied and should be, but the entry barrier is now billions and billions and used to be double digits millions €.

 

[B_A]

We're late to the party, but TSMC and UMC Number 1 and 3 in the world based in Taiwan have both started as:

1. Government research institute was funded for R&D
2. Technology was bought abroad
3. They got it running
4. Spin off as a private or partly private company.

It can be repeated and copied and should be, but the entry barrier is now billions and billions and used to be double digits millions €.

We late to everything now,maybe drones and Ev Cars still not late

Also taiwan japanese korea had a far close relationship with US than us

 

[what]

we late to everything now,maybe drones and Ev Cars still not late

also taiwan japanese korea had a far close relationship with US than us

No thats not an excuse. Even the Soviet Union managed to buy semiconductor technology from the UK.

 

[B_A]

No thats not an excuse. Even the Soviet Union managed to buy semiconductor technology from the UK.

I meant as big as Taiwan

American destroyed japanese semiconductor industry in 1990s-2000s

And now they are trying to destroy chinese one

Soviet just a little for military,we can do it too

 

[CAN_TR]

And now they are trying to destroy chinese one

Not Chinese one but Taiwanese. China is not producing high end semiconducters like Taiwan, Japan, Korea...

 

[AzeriTank]

Not Chinese one but Taiwanese. China is not producing high end semiconducters like Taiwan, Japan, Korea...

In army technology, anything over 20-30 mm is enough. You dont need to make 5mm version

 

[Heartbang]

China is not producing high end semiconducters like Taiwan, Japan, Korea...

And they're not going to be able to, for a VERY long time, thanks to the US's meddling.

 

[B_A]

Not Chinese one but Taiwanese. China is not producing high end semiconducters like Taiwan, Japan, Korea...

I meant American is trying to destroy chinese one

Chinese had SMIC,which got technology from Taiwanese TSMC

American is trying ally with Taiwan and Japan and korea to destory chinese industry.

What i meant is that they can do same to us if we develop the high end semiconducters

 

[B_A]

Not Chinese one but Taiwanese. China is not producing high end semiconducters like Taiwan, Japan, Korea...

Even not as good as Taiwanese and Korean,Chinese SMIC reaches 7nm now

 

[AzeriTank]

Even not as good as Taiwanese and Korean,Chinese SMIC reaches 7nm now

Can they produce it on their own? As i know, they are good at designing it but not producing it.

 

[Zafer]

Reshuffling of cards in the global economy can bring opportunities to get some modern chip making technology to Türkiye. This is wishful thinking for the most part but it is not groundless. We do not need the cutting edge technology as we do not intend to compete in the high end consumer market. 28nm and 14nm technologies are becoming commonplace which are good enough for most applications. At the stage where the consumer electronics are now there seems to be not much need to aggressively look to improve upon. What could a few more iterations of technology bring to the table is questionable.

Breakthroughs can happen to change the picture once again negating the need to look for more powerful processes in continuation of current ones. Imagine chips can be made one at a time effectively or some other makers start making high quality optics or other components for chip-making machines. Light processors or quantum computers will possibly come into the picture one day and change the world as we know it once again or 6G 7G communications can yield to efficient mainframe computing and eliminate the need for personal computing altogether. Remember the IBM officials' initial estimation of the size of the world computer market, 5 computers.

 

[B_A]

Can they produce it on their own? As i know, they are good at designing it but not producing it.

SMIC launched by taiwanese engineers,maybe 5-10year behind TSMC but they can produce that with ASML machines

 

[Ryder]

No lithium and no cobalt.

Forget electric cars.

Find other resources try to experiment.

ICE wont be going anytime soon.

 

[bisbis]

Nice informative interview.

 

[No Name]

Thorium reactors produce 6/1000 of the waste produced by uranium reactors as it says in that twitter thread. Another huge benefit is its safety. Uranium reactors have Chernobyl-like accidents when the core melts down. But here you are already working with molten salt so there is nothing to melt down. You can also find thorium much more easily compared to uranium and it doesn't lead to nuclear weapons.

All in all, this is what we should be building with the entire budget of the energy ministry once it becomes viable. Solar and wind are not that reliable and solar panels in particular need a lot of hard to find raw material to build.

By the way, if there is no typo, 3000 MW is quite a strong reactor. The nuclear reactors we are building in Akkuyu are 1200 MW each.

This is all wrong.

The waste produced by Thorium reactors has more radioactivity than Uranium reactors which may make it harder to store safely.

The claim that Thorium reactors don't lead to nuclear weapons is incorrect. The fuel used in a thorium reactor is turned into Uranium 233 which is weapons-grade Uranium. thus the proliferation of Thorium reactors is dangerous as it means the proliferation of weapons-grade Uranium.

If Turkey is seeking energy independence it should not be wasting its resources on thorium reactors, especially since the pursuit will just get it sanctioned like Iran if it is success for.

 

[Knowledgeseeker]

President Erdoğan: "Next year, we are launching our İMECE Satellite and TÜRKSAT-6A, whose design, production, assembly, software and tests were developed entirely with domestic facilities. Thus, we will increase our total number of satellites in space to 10."