Israel Israeli Ground Forces,זרוע היבשה

Ryder

Experienced member
Messages
10,630
Reactions
5 18,317
Nation of residence
Australia
Nation of origin
Turkey

@500

Redeffect seems to be critical of the Merkava tank. Any chance of reviewing this. Which parts are right and which are wrong. Which parts is he exagerrating.
 

500

Contributor
Moderator
Think Tank Analyst
Israel Moderator
Messages
752
Solutions
1
Reactions
11 2,875
Nation of residence
Israel
Nation of origin
Israel

@500

Redeffect seems to be critical of the Merkava tank. Any chance of reviewing this. Which parts are right and which are wrong. Which parts is he exagerrating.
Basically everything he says is correct. I would only add that basic RPG-7V he showed in video is pretty much useless vs. Merkava from any side:

Cap5465654ture.JPG


U need something more powerful at least like RPG-VL.


TBsPG.jpg
 

Ryder

Experienced member
Messages
10,630
Reactions
5 18,317
Nation of residence
Australia
Nation of origin
Turkey
Basically everything he says is correct. I would only add that basic RPG-7V he showed in video is pretty much useless vs. Merkava from any side:

View attachment 19350

U need something more powerful at least like RPG-VL.


View attachment 19351

Merkava tank has its engine on the front.

What made the Israelis go with this new and different design. Most tanks have their engines on the back.

Its interesting how Israel went with a different approach.
 

Ecderha

Experienced member
Messages
4,552
Reactions
4 7,822
Nation of residence
Bulgaria
Nation of origin
Turkey
Merkava tank has its engine on the front.

What made the Israelis go with this new and different design. Most tanks have their engines on the back.

Its interesting how Israel went with a different approach.
Nothing special.
isreal want to have more ppl in there tank. So engineers offer to move engine on front in order to free space on back, where they have to put a DOOR for entrance/exit of extra soldiers.
At end you have tank+carrier
 

Ryder

Experienced member
Messages
10,630
Reactions
5 18,317
Nation of residence
Australia
Nation of origin
Turkey
Nothing special.
isreal want to have more ppl in there tank. So engineers offer to move engine on front in order to free space on back, where they have to put a DOOR for entrance/exit of extra soldiers.
At end you have tank+carrier

More like a hybrid am I right?
 

Ecderha

Experienced member
Messages
4,552
Reactions
4 7,822
Nation of residence
Bulgaria
Nation of origin
Turkey
More like a hybrid am I right?
You can called what ever you want.
For israel it was impotent that they can carrier soldiers with in tanks on battle field.
For good or bad who knows, but for sure it is nothing special
 

CAN_TR

Contributor
Messages
1,439
Reactions
15 5,037
Nation of residence
Austria
Nation of origin
Turkey
Does not have any benefits more like the opposite. I've read some comments that the engine is acting as another layer of armor but let's be real a AP/Sabot round would penetrate through the engine block like butter. Also a big no no is the fact that heat signature on the front is greater therefore easier to locate with thermal optics.

Overall it's more bad than good.
 
T

Turko

Guest
Nothing special.
isreal want to have more ppl in there tank. So engineers offer to move engine on front in order to free space on back, where they have to put a DOOR for entrance/exit of extra soldiers.
At end you have tank+carrier
They are cuny as fox. Merkava is MBT and APC 2in1.
However during long lasting missions , creating more space in the tank is comprehensible. We are not in the ww2 era when low silhouette was vital.
 

500

Contributor
Moderator
Think Tank Analyst
Israel Moderator
Messages
752
Solutions
1
Reactions
11 2,875
Nation of residence
Israel
Nation of origin
Israel
Merkava tank has its engine on the front.

What made the Israelis go with this new and different design. Most tanks have their engines on the back.

Its interesting how Israel went with a different approach.
Here the reasons why Israel chose this design:

1) Additional frontal protection vs. HEAT rounds.
2) Safe crew evacuation from rear.
3) You can transport injured, save crews from other tanks.
4) More ammo, ammo stored in fireproof containers, fast and easy ammo loading.
5) Small gun overhang.
 

500

Contributor
Moderator
Think Tank Analyst
Israel Moderator
Messages
752
Solutions
1
Reactions
11 2,875
Nation of residence
Israel
Nation of origin
Israel
Common claim against Merkava that its front engine is greatly increasing thermal signature and hinders firing directly.

Here a comparison of Merkava and Russian Armata through thermal imaginer with turned on engines (hot is black):

Merkava thermal1.jpg


and inverse colors (hot is white):

Merkava thermal.jpg


As we see only the exhaust point is hot, but many other tanks also have side exhaust point too.
 

500

Contributor
Moderator
Think Tank Analyst
Israel Moderator
Messages
752
Solutions
1
Reactions
11 2,875
Nation of residence
Israel
Nation of origin
Israel
187518759_3029254650641613_7997491230457101325_n.jpg
gettyimages-1232978643-2048x2048.jpg


Turret side and hull side armor modules exposed.
 

500

Contributor
Moderator
Think Tank Analyst
Israel Moderator
Messages
752
Solutions
1
Reactions
11 2,875
Nation of residence
Israel
Nation of origin
Israel
That's because the Israeli Air Force is Israel's strongest military asset.

Their ground forces? Mid-tier at best. Their navy? Slightly better but suffers from having been neglected for many years until they started making up for it.

Their air force though? Ace-tier. Which is why Israel is always focused on air superiority. They lose air superiority, they aren't exactly screwed but their odds don't look that good anymore.

Really how many countries have better in terms of quality and experience?

A few - US, UK, France, Italy, Netherlands, etc. Canada used to be pretty good too until politics completely cucked their military.

Mind you, I am not saying that Israel's ground forces are bad. But their regular infantry units seem about on par with the average middle-tier-nation army, which makes sense because the IDF is a heavily conscript-oriented army due to their specific demographics. Now granted, the situation has likely substantially improved since, say, 6-7 years ago but it seems like Israel's land forces are the weakest aspect of their land/navy/air force trifecta.

So first you say that IDF ground forces are mid-tier at best and then you admit that very few countries in the world have better trained and experienced ground forces.

IDF ground forces have very successful experience in different kinds of warfare: Blitzkrieg operations (1956 and 1967), largest tank battles since WW2, crossing canal, enemy army encirclement (1973), swift advance in mountain area against enemy armor and large number of ATGM teams (1982), urban warfare (2003)...

IDF often is criticized for 2006 war with Hezbollah, but 15 years later we see that goal was achieved: the border is calm Hezbollah does not attack Israel anymore.

Of course in each of this conflicts were done many mistakes, but IDF learns from these mistakes.

Today all active IDF tank brigades have Merklava Mk4 tanks equipped with Trophy APS, Israeli infantry has large numbers of 3rd gen Spike ATGMS, lots of heavy APC (with tank level protection), artillery is equipped with pinpoint accuracy rockets Acular, EXTRA, Spike NLOS... Both infantry and artillery units have modern UAVs (battalion and brigade level).
 

500

Contributor
Moderator
Think Tank Analyst
Israel Moderator
Messages
752
Solutions
1
Reactions
11 2,875
Nation of residence
Israel
Nation of origin
Israel
Damm! Is this thing still in service?

Or is it just for a photo shoot ?
This Centurion is standing there as monument. Centurions where phased out in 1990-es.

Currently on Merkava Mk3 and Mk4 remained in service.
 
Top Bottom