Korea KTX-II (T-50, TA-50, FA-50) program

[Gary]

The requirement is 36, expect repeat order for another 18.

 

[Afif]

Congrats Malaysia for selecting the worse bid. Hürjet would give them both more flexible configuration options and higher Malaysian industry participation.

Why it is the worst bid?
Technically it is the best solution out there as it is a proven platform and already in service with multiple air forces.
However, considering geopolitical aspect and the local industry participation Hurjet would've been a better choice.

But it is their airforce and they probably knows better what suits them.

 

[Gary]

Why it is the worst bid?
Technically it is the best solution out there as it is a proven platform and already in service with multiple air forces.
However, considering political aspect and the local industry participation Hurjet would've been a better choice.

But it is their airforce and they knows better.

Malaysia currently only has

x18 Su-30MKM
x8 F/A-18C/D
x10 Mk108/208

Adding ready and tested (and widely used) F/A-50 is always the wise thing to do. Because they will need it fast

 

[Chocopie]

Main arguments for FA-50:
- tried & tested bird since 2000s
- very high production quality
- integration of US, European, Israeli, Korean weapon and sensor systems
- international pilot training program
- excellent supply chain & customer service

Luckily we learned from the best in business: USAF and LockMart

 

[Bürküt]

They have made a good choice.It was a LCA tender.We do not even know whether trainer Hürjet will be able to enter mass production in the near future because of the American engine... It was already too ambitious for TAI to enter this tender without producing the aircraft.

 

[urban mine]

S. Korean defense chief attends contract signing event for FA-50 fighter export​

SEOUL, May 23 (Yonhap) -- Defense Minister Lee Jong-sup joined a contract signing ceremony for South Korea's export of FA-50 light attack aircraft to Malaysia during a visit to the Southeast Asian country Tuesday, calling the deal a "crucial" opportunity to elevate the bilateral defense partnership.

The ceremony came after Lee and his Malaysian counterpart, Mohamad Hasan, held talks on bilateral defense and arms industry cooperation earlier in the day. Lee was in Malaysia to attend the Langkawi International Maritime and Aerospace Exhibition in the country.

"Lee assessed that the export of FA-50 fighters to Malaysia served as a crucial chance to elevate the two countries' defense and arms industry cooperation, and expressed our government's interest and will for support regarding bilateral defense industry cooperation," the ministry said in a press release.

In February, Korea Aerospace Industries Ltd. (KAI), South Korea's sole aircraft manufacturer, signed a letter of acceptance with Malaysia to supply 18 FA-50 aircraft. Tuesday's ceremony marked the signing of a final contract on the export, according to the ministry.

After the ceremony, Lee visited an exhibition booth run by KAI. There, he pledged active support to expand the country's defense exports through the relaxation of regulations, financial support and other means.

During the talks with the Malaysian minister, Lee asked for his support to help South Korean firms expand their participation in Malaysia's future military reinforcement projects, including its push to introduce three 2,000-ton littoral mission vessels.

Hasan stressed the importance of cooperation and communication for regional peace and prosperity, while requesting South Korea play a constructive role in promoting stability in the Southeast Asian region, according to the ministry.

Lee also used the meeting to call for Malaysia's support for South Korea's bid to host the 2030 World Expo in its southeastern city of Busan and invited Hasan to attend his ministry's annual defense forum, called the Seoul Defense Dialogue, scheduled for October.

 

[Chocopie]

$920 million deal. Enjoy the ROKAF Black Eagles with their beautiful T-50 birds on world tour, also at LIMA 2023 in Malaysia.블랙이글스 팀워크!

 

[urban mine]

Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) unveiled the upgraded FA-50 Fighting Eagle with aerial refueling capability.
The upgraded FA-50 is now able to conduct aerial refueling via probe & drogue method, which will greatly enhance its operational range. Polish FA-50PL will be the first FA-50 to feature this upgrade, along with Sniper ATP, AIM-120 AMRAAM integration, and PhantomStrike AESA radar.
Future FA-50 exports will also include these upgrades.

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+ Boom-Receptacle

 

[MaciekRS]

Poland is already approved to buy Sniper ATP for future FA 50s.

Sniper advanced targeting pods approved for sale to Poland by US

Poland purchased 34 Sniper Advanced Targeting Pods with the permission of the US State Department for its FA-50 aircraft from South Korea.

www.airforce-technology.com

 

[Chocopie]

If KAI redesigns the FA-50 to a single seat F-50 with a more powerful GE F-414 like the Gripen E (new tail and air intakes) and a new nose radome-size for a bigger AESA radar it would practically become a F-16V Mini

 

[urban mine]

KAI's Managing Director Shin Dong-hak reveals the story behind Malaysia's Fighter Lead In Trainer-Light Combat Aircraft (FLIT-LCA) competition. As shown in Malaysia's RFP, the project was divided into the first and second phases, but the second phase was conducted with the same model as the first phase, so competition among participants was very fierce.(Uniquely, Malaysia makes competitors pay to buy RFP.....)

A total of 6 aircraft competed, but I'm wondering because it's different from the list I've known so far.

Anyway, FA-50 was selected in the competition and will be the first delivery in October 2026. Currently, FA-50M work progress is smooth at 26.7%. The size of the first phase is about $920 million, with $200 million currently paid under the contract.

So what are the strengths that FA-50 was able to win this competition? Malaysia wanted the aircraft to be equipped with airborne refueling capabilities under a wide operational environment consisting of mainland Malaysia and the island of Borneo. It was burdensome to invest KAI's own funds to equip this function, but the Korean government launched a program with airborne refueling capabilities and provided government funding for it. As a result, the first aircraft could be delivered in 2026.

It was also helpful to check performance and reliability from Southeast Asian countries (Indonesia, Philippines, and Thailand) that operated FA-50/T-50 and to see the smoothness of follow-up support.

Malaysia demanded not only the main contract but also industrial cooperation worth 1.2 trillion won. It's offset. The managing director said that the Korean government has offered a lot of cooperation in Malaysia, including palm oil purchase, Korean language education institutions, K-pop-related projects, and K-water's support for the Malaysian Water Supply Network.
https://koreajoongangdaily.joins.co...malaysia-southeastasia/20220317170912183.html

There was also a story about India's Tejas, which competed until the end. Tejas is an aircraft that also incorporates more relevant air armament than the FA-50 and has the advantage of its delta wing shape. However, in terms of FLIT, it is said that it is more disadvantageous than FA-50. It is said that it was difficult for an educated pilot to check the ground because of delta wing. He also said that even before the competition began, the Korean Air Force invited the leaders of the Malaysian Air Force to demonstrate the tactical data link system (Link-16), which also left an impressive memory for them.

 

[urban mine]

The KAI production line was shown in a Korean TV show. The T-50/FA-50 line is running non-stop, and it's been a while since we've seen news about the T-50i. I think it was filmed in August.

 

[Chocopie]

View attachment 70943 View attachment 70944 View attachment 70945 View attachment 70946
The KAI production line was shown in a Korean TV show. The T-50/FA-50 line is running non-stop, and it's been a while since we've seen news about the T-50i. I think it was filmed in August.

This video is from a popular Korean cooking show 백패커 (baekpaekeo/ The Backpacker Chef)
They visit interesting places (companies, military bases, navy ships, fire departments, schools etc.) and cook for the people there. Now apparently KAI.

The main chef is the Korean guy who filmed the “I‘m hungry, Istanbul“-clips where he‘s munching yummy Turkish food:
Post in thread 'Çay Bahçesi'
https://defencehub.live/threads/Çay-bahçesi.146/post-336345

The other guys are famous comedians and actors who work as assistant cooks in the TV show.

 

[urban mine]

KAI's T/FA-50 MLU Proposal announced in 2022. It was not officially created by the South Korean Ministry of Defense.

The T-50 family of aircraft has been in service for 18 years since it was first delivered to the Air Force and will reach mid-life (20 years) in 2025.

Why does the T/FA-50 require an MLU? In the meantime, aircraft components (IMDC, HUD, FLCC, CMFD, etc.) are being sourced overseas and manufacturers are discontinuing them. Last Time Buy (LTB) components are already reaching their limits.

Older avionics systems make it difficult to train pilots for the upcoming modernization of fourth and fifth generation fighters, which will lead to additional missions for combat squadrons and increased training costs, as combat units will have to designate fighters to complete limited tactical course training on trainers. Therefore, it is necessary to upgrade to the latest Avionics system and introduce a Embedded training system to fulfill the tactical training mission.

The FA-50, a light fighter, has the same problem. The L/M version of the AIM-9 series, the main weapon, has been discontinued, and the AGM-65 is too old to be used in the current battlefield. There is also the problem of the mission computer mentioned above, and the radar required for the future battlefield needs to be applied. Sensor pods for precision strikes, external fuel tanks to increase the mission radius, aerial refueling capabilities, and rear fuselage modifications are ways to improve this. It should also be capable of carrying Korean short- and medium-range air-to-air missiles, which were developed in the 30s.

This is the part that points out that overseas countries legislate the performance improvement cycle of the aircraft in operation and start the business when that time is reached, while Korea does not. In the end, the KT-1 missed the time for MLU and had to promote new development, and the T/FA-50 still has a chance, so we should not miss this time and promote MLU.

This part analyzes the requirements for improvements to the T/FA-50 by analyzing requirements from the KF-16 and the APT T-X program, a U.S. Air Force advanced training aircraft program. The KF-16 was upgraded to improve survivability, requiring protective equipment such as RWR/CMDS, GCAS, PARS, and TF, and to extend the life of the aircraft by modernizing aviation avionics, overhauling and reinforcing the airframe, while the APT T-X's requirements include aerial refueling capability, LAD, SFI, and integration of embedded training system capabilities.

Therefore, KAI proposed a plan to integrate aviation avionics, FLCC, and embedded training systems in common with T/FA-50 to improve internal fuel expansion of the 300G/L external fuel tank integrated fuselage for mission radius expansion, gas life extension, GCAS, TCAS, PARS, and individually apply specific performance improvement factors.

This is a detailed shape for each performance improvement element. I think it will be understandable just by looking at the picture without having to explain it separately.

 

[Chocopie]

KAI's T/FA-50 MLU Proposal announced in 2022. It was not officially created by the South Korean Ministry of Defense.

View attachment 71034
The T-50 family of aircraft has been in service for 18 years since it was first delivered to the Air Force and will reach mid-life (20 years) in 2025.
View attachment 71035
Why does the T/FA-50 require an MLU? In the meantime, aircraft components (IMDC, HUD, FLCC, CMFD, etc.) are being sourced overseas and manufacturers are discontinuing them. Last Time Buy (LTB) components are already reaching their limits.
View attachment 71036
Older avionics systems make it difficult to train pilots for the upcoming modernization of fourth and fifth generation fighters, which will lead to additional missions for combat squadrons and increased training costs, as combat units will have to designate fighters to complete limited tactical course training on trainers. Therefore, it is necessary to upgrade to the latest Avionics system and introduce a Embedded training system to fulfill the tactical training mission.
View attachment 71037
The FA-50, a light fighter, has the same problem. The L/M version of the AIM-9 series, the main weapon, has been discontinued, and the AGM-65 is too old to be used in the current battlefield. There is also the problem of the mission computer mentioned above, and the radar required for the future battlefield needs to be applied. Sensor pods for precision strikes, external fuel tanks to increase the mission radius, aerial refueling capabilities, and rear fuselage modifications are ways to improve this. It should also be capable of carrying Korean short- and medium-range air-to-air missiles, which were developed in the 30s.
View attachment 71038
View attachment 71039
This is the part that points out that overseas countries legislate the performance improvement cycle of the aircraft in operation and start the business when that time is reached, while Korea does not. In the end, the KT-1 missed the time for MLU and had to promote new development, and the T/FA-50 still has a chance, so we should not miss this time and promote MLU.
View attachment 71041
This part analyzes the requirements for improvements to the T/FA-50 by analyzing requirements from the KF-16 and the APT T-X program, a U.S. Air Force advanced training aircraft program. The KF-16 was upgraded to improve survivability, requiring protective equipment such as RWR/CMDS, GCAS, PARS, and TF, and to extend the life of the aircraft by modernizing aviation avionics, overhauling and reinforcing the airframe, while the APT T-X's requirements include aerial refueling capability, LAD, SFI, and integration of embedded training system capabilities.
View attachment 71040
Therefore, KAI proposed a plan to integrate aviation avionics, FLCC, and embedded training systems in common with T/FA-50 to improve internal fuel expansion of the 300G/L external fuel tank integrated fuselage for mission radius expansion, gas life extension, GCAS, TCAS, PARS, and individually apply specific performance improvement factors.
View attachment 71042 View attachment 71043 View attachment 71044 View attachment 71045
This is a detailed shape for each performance improvement element. I think it will be understandable just by looking at the picture without having to explain it separately.

I hope the government implements the proposed MLU plan. They‘re cheaping out on long-term defense R&D and upgrading outdated inventory through all branches.
Army and Marine Corps were always cash-strapped stingy but Air Force and Navy have to keep up with intense Chinese & Japanese arms race lately.

 

[urban mine]

I hope the government implements the proposed MLU plan. They‘re cheaping out on long-term defense R&D and upgrading outdated inventory through all branches.
Army and Marine Corps were always cash-strapped stingy but Air Force and Navy have to keep up with intense Chinese & Japanese arms race lately.

The T/FA-50s exported to overseas countries will also need to be MLU, so I think we should proceed with the plan next year or the next few years. First, we need to have our own IMDC so that we can integrate domestic air-to-air missiles in the future... We have already integrated ROTS (MDS tech) into an IMDC made by Intelics in 2007 and successfully flew it. However, I think we will not use it for future MLUs, but will make a new one and integrate it.

 

[Chocopie]

The T/FA-50s exported to overseas countries will also need to be MLU, so I think we should proceed with the plan next year or the next few years. First, we need to have our own IMDC so that we can integrate domestic air-to-air missiles in the future... We have already integrated ROTS (MDS tech) into an IMDC made by Intelics in 2007 and successfully flew it. However, I think we will not use it for future MLUs, but will make a new one and integrate it.
View attachment 71053 View attachment 71054
View attachment 71051

Exported T-50 variants are still a decade away to reach MLU age, besides Indonesia, Iraq, Thai or Philippines don‘t yet have budgets reserved for upgrades. They‘ll fly the old ones til they fall from the sky and order small batches of newer models right away.

But you‘re right we‘ve to replace discontinued sub-systems with domestic ones. Homegrown avionics, especially integration of AESA radar (LIG Nex1 ESR-500A?) with Korean air-to-air and air-to-ground missiles and guided smart bombs. Not sure if we‘re still working on smaller Taurus ALCM versions with the Germans.

As we see with the US stance to delay or deny weapon integration of AMRAAMs for FA-50 we‘ll have to use the ongoing KF-21 weapon projects to implement a Korean arms range on FA-50 as well.