TR Marine Mavi Vatan (Blue Homeland)

[Foulgrim]

I guess you claim that the island, which is within swimming distance from Turkey, is on the Greek mainland. As I said above, these claims are not resolvable unless the two countries have equal lines.

If an island (for example Chios, Rhodes) is part of a wider complex of islands then automatically the complex of these islands is considered part of the mainland. If Rhodes or Chios did not have a cluster of inhabited islands around them and were very close to the coasts of Asia Minor then Greece would not have the right to measure the Exclusive Economic Zone from these islands. This is the fundamental difference between the Spratly Islands and the Aegean. The islands do not all have the same rights. Equal lines should be measured from the mainland of the two states, even those of the mainland where islands are made up. If Turkey had a cluster of islands it could measure the Exclusive Economic Zone from this point as it would be considered part of the mainland. But Turkey does not have such a thing. I would also like to remind you that Turkey has extended its border with Russia to 12 nautical miles on the Black Sea island of Kefken, while it also has an Exclusive Economic Zone. Why shouldn't Greece have this right on its hundreds of islands? In Alaska, for example, the hundreds of islands that exist there normally have an Exclusive Economic Zone. Russia and the United States are bordering on this point, and despite their personal differences, they have found a solution to this issue. The issue is that there is an intention for a solution and Turkey does not seem to want to discuss these issues by taking unilateral piracy.

 

[Foulgrim]

Greeks invaded our city "Smyrna", They almost reached Ankara. we banished those agressors whose descendants would repeat same agression. We didn't forget the greek armies on our soil.
If Greeks were peaceful , would they have expanded their coastal from 3 to 6?
If they were peaceful , would they demand 12miles?

Greek agression need to be stopped.

It is not a matter of aggression to extend the territorial waters of Greece from 6 to 12 nautical miles but a right of the country. In the Ionian Sea, Greece extended them to 12 nautical miles and Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu came out and applauded this attitude of Greece. Why should Greece be able to extend its territorial waters to 12 nautical miles in the Ionian Sea and not be able to do so in the Aegean Sea? The Asia Minor Campaign (1918-1922) is another discussion, with the same logic and the Ottoman Empire attacked the Byzantine Empire occupying Constantinople in 1453. Not to mention the genocide of Greeks and Armenians in the first half of the 20th century. I do not claim that the Asia Minor Campaign was right, but 100 years have passed since then. By throwing responsibilities at each other we will never get an edge.

 

[Turko]

If an island (for example Chios, Rhodes) is part of a wider complex of islands then automatically the complex of these islands is considered part of the mainland. If Rhodes or Chios did not have a cluster of inhabited islands around them and were very close to the coasts of Asia Minor then Greece would not have the right to measure the Exclusive Economic Zone from these islands. This is the fundamental difference between the Spratly Islands and the Aegean. The islands do not all have the same rights. Equal lines should be measured from the mainland of the two states, even those of the mainland where islands are made up. If Turkey had a cluster of islands it could measure the Exclusive Economic Zone from this point as it would be considered part of the mainland. But Turkey does not have such a thing. I would also like to remind you that Turkey has extended its border with Russia to 12 nautical miles on the Black Sea island of Kefken, while it also has an Exclusive Economic Zone. Why shouldn't Greece have this right on its hundreds of islands? In Alaska, for example, the hundreds of islands that exist there normally have an Exclusive Economic Zone. Russia and the United States are bordering on this point, and despite their personal differences, they have found a solution to this issue. The issue is that there is an intention for a solution and Turkey does not seem to want to discuss these issues by taking unilateral piracy.

What are u telling? Now you seem to have remembered about continental shelf. Then give us all eastern islands which are part of anatolian continental shelf. Doublespeak wont work. When you are in advantageous position u remember international laws.

Remember there was earthquake in Samos, because of it Athena was shaken or Izmir city? Naturally Izmir city was shaken because Samos belongs to Anatolian continental shelf as other eastern island so that your claim " we have right expanding coasts 12 miles "failed , because your argument is absolutely based on anatolian continental shelf.

B.S.

No way to agressors we won't give our continental shelf to you. You just want expand your country. Be peaceful.

 

[Foulgrim]

You know, these are just Greek thesis.

It is not these Greek positions but the positions of Greece that derive from the Law of the Sea that he has voted. Something that Turkey has not done, so it is good to vote for the Law of the Sea first and then to say arbitrarily that these are Greek positions.

 

[Turko]

It is not these Greek positions but the positions of Greece that derive from the Law of the Sea that he has voted. Something that Turkey has not done, so it is good to vote for the Law of the Sea first and then to say arbitrarily that these are Greek positions.

Fabricating some rights a based on anatolian continental shelf , demanding land * from Turkey.* Although the land under the sea , it still remains as land of Turkish continental shelf.
Agressor Greeks never end dreaming about to expand their country.

 

[Foulgrim]

What are u telling? Now you seem to have remembered about continental shelf. Then give us all eastern islands which are part of anatolian continental shelf. Doublespeak wont work. When you are in advantageous position u remember international laws.

Remember there was earthquake in Samos, because of it Athena was shaken or Izmir city? Naturally Izmir city was shaken because Samos belongs to Anatolian continental shelf as other eastern island so that your claim " we have right expanding coasts 12 miles "failed , because your argument is absolutely based on anatolian continental shelf.

B.S.

No way to agressors we won't give our continental shelf to you. You just want expand your country. Be peaceful.

You take the conversation geologically while I place the conversation based on the Law of the Sea. There is no doubt that Samos, like other islands, is a geological extension of Asia Minor, but this argument contradicts the Law of the Sea itself.

 

[Turko]

You take the conversation geologically while I place the conversation based on the Law of the Sea. There is no doubt that Samos, like other islands, is a geological extension of Asia Minor, but this argument contradicts the Law of the Sea itself.

You just don't know or fabricate some laws. You can not expand your coasts to 12miles. All attempts will be considered as agression.

 

[Test7]

. I would also like to remind you that Turkey has extended its border with Russia to 12 nautical miles on the Black Sea island of Kefken, while it also has an Exclusive Economic Zone.

Yeah we have 12 nm EEZ in the Blacksea.

Because there is no conflict area. All countries in the Black Sea agreed with the middle line principle. 12 miles in the Black Sea does not restrict any country but 12 miles in the Aegea does restrict Turkey's right. If Greece declares 12 miles, a person fishing with a fishing rod on the shore of Turkey must get permission from Greece.. Because he benefits from the economic space of Greece. A person swimming in the Turkey coast will be swimming in the Greek EEZ.

For example This people are in Turkish city but they are hunting Greece's fish

These people are swimming in Turkey Coast, but they are in Greek water. The Greek coast guard can come and ask for a passport.

Do you think this makes sense? This is not a funny joke, it is a serious claim. Therefore, the Turkish parliament has officially declared war if 12 miles are declared.

 

[Melkor]

It is not these Greek positions but the positions of Greece that derive from the Law of the Sea that he has voted. Something that Turkey has not done, so it is good to vote for the Law of the Sea first and then to say arbitrarily that these are Greek positions.

A combined 18000 Sq km of Greek Aegean islands would give over 70% of 215000 Sq Km of sea to Greece based on her fallback on UNCLOS. Why would Turkey ratify this? 18000 Sq Km is about 135km by 135km - you get 150000sq km of sea because your islands combined barely make up the peninsula from canakkale to balikesir.

 

[Foulgrim]

You just don't know or fabricate some laws. You can not expand your coasts to 12miles. All attempts will be considered as agression.

That's what you say! The Law of the Sea is clear, if you are pirated (as with Oruc Reis for example) and do not want to vote for the Law of the Sea is your problem. Greece must extend its territorial waters to 12 nautical miles as the whole planet has done! Just because you are threatened with war does not mean that we should listen to you. You extended your territorial waters to 12 nautical miles in the Black Sea. Why can't Greece be in the Aegean? This is a world originality! Only the President of Turkey could think of this arbitrariness.

 

[Foulgrim]

Yeah we have 12 nm EEZ in the Blacksea.

Because there is no conflict area. All countries in the Black Sea agreed with the middle line principle. 12 miles in the Black Sea does not restrict any country but 12 miles in the Aegea does restrict Turkey's right. If Greece declares 12 miles, a person fishing with a fishing rod on the shore of Turkey must get permission from Greece.. Because he benefits from the economic space of Greece. A person swimming in the Turkey coast will be swimming in the Greek EEZ.

For example This people are in Turkish city but they are hunting Greece's fish

These people are swimming in Turkey Coast, but they are in Greek water. The Greek coast guard can come and ask for a passport.

Do you think this makes sense? This is not a funny joke, it is a serious claim. Therefore, the Turkish parliament has officially declared war if 12 miles are declared.

So as you put it you are not completely wrong but this is the morphology of the area. We can not change that. Greece has such a large area due to the complex of islands in the Aegean. To change this we must give you some of our maritime and territorial integrity. Is it possible to enter the discussion in such a context? So who is the attacker?

 

[Foulgrim]

A combined 18000 Sq km of Greek Aegean islands would give over 70% of 215000 Sq Km of sea to Greece based on her fallback on UNCLOS. Why would Turkey ratify this? 18000 Sq Km is about 135km by 135km - you get 150000sq km of sea because your islands combined barely make up the peninsula from canakkale to balikesir.

But this is the morphology of Greece. What should we do now? Can we give you any island to make you happy? Is it possible to put the whole discussion under such a framework?

 

[Sinan]

It is not these Greek positions but the positions of Greece that derive from the Law of the Sea that he has voted. Something that Turkey has not done, so it is good to vote for the Law of the Sea first and then to say arbitrarily that these are Greek positions.

If you are saying that the "Greek positions derived from UNCLOS" then please show me the article from unclos where you were saying " The islands are a mainland when they create a complex of many islands together. You will not measure the middle line from Athens or Thessaloniki to the coasts of Asia Minor but from the respective Aegean island to the coasts of Asia Minor using the midline method. "

 

[Turko]

That's what you say! The Law of the Sea is clear, if you are pirated (as with Oruc Reis for example) and do not want to vote for the Law of the Sea is your problem. Greece must extend its territorial waters to 12 nautical miles as the whole planet has done! Just because you are threatened with war does not mean that we should listen to you. You extended your territorial waters to 12 nautical miles in the Black Sea. Why can't Greece be in the Aegean? This is a world originality! Only the President of Turkey could think of this arbitrariness.

You cannot change the current situation unilaterally. According to international law: Aegean Sea inland and the two riparian states need to make a joint decision. So that we don't allow you expand to 12 miles.
All greek attempts will be agression. You can't change current situation. Keep your hand away from our continental shelf.

 

[Foulgrim]

If you are saying that the "Greek positions derived from UNCLOS" then please show me the article from unclos where you were saying " The islands are a mainland when they create a complex of many islands together. You will not measure the middle line from Athens or Thessaloniki to the coasts of Asia Minor but from the respective Aegean island to the coasts of Asia Minor using the midline method. "

Of course, I have no problem. The term used in UNCLOS III is "Archipelagic waters" and says, among other things:
The convention sets the definition of "Archipelagic States" in Part IV, which also defines how the state can draw its territorial borders. A baseline is drawn between the outermost points of the outermost islands, subject to these points being sufficiently close to one another. All waters inside this baseline are designated "Archipelagic Waters". The state has sovereignty over these waters (like internal waters), but subject to existing rights including traditional fishing rights of immediately adjacent states. Foreign vessels have right of innocent passage through archipelagic waters (like territorial waters).
UNCLOS III

 

[Test7]

So as you put it you are not completely wrong but this is the morphology of the area. We can not change that. Greece has such a large area due to the complex of islands in the Aegean. To change this we must give you some of our maritime and territorial integrity. Is it possible to enter the discussion in such a context? So who is the attacker?

So we will wait and see what will happen..

 

[Foulgrim]

So we will wait and see what will happen..

When you say that we should wait for what will happen what do you mean? Do you claim that we should give some islands to Turkey so that it does not protest? This is never going to happen. Greece's territorial and maritime integrity is very specific, it cannot be changed according to Turkey's demands because the President of Turkey wants to expand geopolitically in the Eastern Mediterranean.

 

[Foulgrim]

You cannot change the current situation unilaterally. According to international law: Aegean Sea inland and the two riparian states need to make a joint decision. So that we don't allow you expand to 12 miles.
All greek attempts will be agression. You can't change current situation. Keep your hand away from our continental shelf.

What I see is that everywhere you see enemies where they do not exist.

 

[GoatsMilk]

Greeks invaded our city "Smyrna", They almost reached Ankara. we banished those agressors whose descendants would repeat same agression. We didn't forget the greek armies on our soil.
If Greeks were peaceful , would they have expanded their coastal from 3 to 6?
If they were peaceful , would they demand 12miles?

Greek agression need to be stopped.

Would they have tried to annex cyprus and ethnically clense the muslim population? Their reward was a crushing defeat against the Turks.

 

[Test7]

When you say that we should wait for what will happen what do you mean? Do you claim that we should give some islands to Turkey so that it does not protest? This is never going to happen. Greece's territorial and maritime integrity is very specific, it cannot be changed according to Turkey's demands because the President of Turkey wants to expand geopolitically in the Eastern Mediterranean.

I meant, will 12 miles be declared by Greece? Will Turkey implement Casus Belli If Greece will declare 12 miles? I think we'll have to wait and see them..