cengaver
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They are on active duty, we need that ships.
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i think we will start upgrading those ships in January 2021 but now that tensions are slowly going down maybe they will take 1 of them to drydock.
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Greece welcomes Turkish survey ship's return to Med Sea port
The Greek government has welcomed a Turkish survey vessel’s return to port from a disputed area of the eastern Mediterranean at the heart of a stand-off between Greece and Turkey over energy rights
By The Associated Press
ATHENS, Greece -- The Greek government welcomed a Turkish survey vessel's return to port Sunday from a disputed area of the eastern Mediterranean that has been at the heart of a summer stand-off between Greece and Turkey over energy rights.
The Oruc Reis research ship returned to near the southern Turkish port of Antalya for the first time in more than a month after Turkey announced in July that it was dispatching a vessel to work in waters that Greece claims are its exclusive jurisdiction.
"This is a positive signal. We will see how this develops to make a proper assessment,″ Greek government spokesman Stelios Petsas told TV channel Skai.
The ship returned to Antalya after its Navtex, or international maritime safety advisory, for the waters between Turkey, Cyprus and the Greek island of Crete it had been in since Aug. 10 expired.
The dispute over potential oil and gas reserves has triggered a military build-up in the eastern Mediterranean. Nominal NATO allies Turkey and Greece both dispatched warships to the area where the Oruc Reis was engaged in seismic research and conducted military exercises to assert their claims.
NATO intervened, organizing talks between the two countries' militaries to prevent a potential armed conflict.
Turkish Defense Minister Hulusi Akar said Sunday in Antalya’s district of Kas that Turkey supports peace and dialogue “if our wishes and demands are fulfilled.”
Greek President Katerina Sakellaropoulou was visiting the Greek island of Kastellorizo, located directly across the Mediterranean from Kas, at the same time.
abcnews.go.com
The Greek government has welcomed a Turkish survey vessel’s return to port from a disputed area of the eastern Mediterranean at the heart of a stand-off between Greece and Turkey over energy rights
By The Associated Press
ATHENS, Greece -- The Greek government welcomed a Turkish survey vessel's return to port Sunday from a disputed area of the eastern Mediterranean that has been at the heart of a summer stand-off between Greece and Turkey over energy rights.
The Oruc Reis research ship returned to near the southern Turkish port of Antalya for the first time in more than a month after Turkey announced in July that it was dispatching a vessel to work in waters that Greece claims are its exclusive jurisdiction.
"This is a positive signal. We will see how this develops to make a proper assessment,″ Greek government spokesman Stelios Petsas told TV channel Skai.
The ship returned to Antalya after its Navtex, or international maritime safety advisory, for the waters between Turkey, Cyprus and the Greek island of Crete it had been in since Aug. 10 expired.
The dispute over potential oil and gas reserves has triggered a military build-up in the eastern Mediterranean. Nominal NATO allies Turkey and Greece both dispatched warships to the area where the Oruc Reis was engaged in seismic research and conducted military exercises to assert their claims.
NATO intervened, organizing talks between the two countries' militaries to prevent a potential armed conflict.
Turkish Defense Minister Hulusi Akar said Sunday in Antalya’s district of Kas that Turkey supports peace and dialogue “if our wishes and demands are fulfilled.”
Greek President Katerina Sakellaropoulou was visiting the Greek island of Kastellorizo, located directly across the Mediterranean from Kas, at the same time.
Greece, Turkey signal willingness to talk about sea dispute
After weeks of tension in the eastern Mediterranean, Greece and Turkey have signaled willingness to start talks about a long-standing sea dispute
Ghost soldier
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Oruç reis mission was from august to september, i think there's nothing to welcome because they will be another navtex coming but not in the same zone
Ghost soldier
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Meanwhile alarabiya propaganda channel spews BS saying that navtex stopped as a result of european pressure while navtex in reality it was from august to september,and they commited a stupid mistake by saying oruç reis is a drilling ship and it was doing drilling works
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Pompeo in Cyprus says US 'deeply concerned' over Turkey energy search
www.france24.com
Pompeo in Cyprus says US 'deeply concerned' over Turkey energy search - France 24
Pompeo in Cyprus says US 'deeply concerned' over Turkey energy search
www.france24.com
Skyfall
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Also:
www.dailysabah.com
Greek PM Mitsotakis says ready to discuss Eastern Mediterranean dispute with Turkey
The Greek prime minister on Sunday said he is ready to talk with the Turkish president if the tension between Greece and Turkey eased, as he welcomed the...
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He is in control of the Mavi Vatan strategy along with Cem Gurdeniz. Both of these men played a role in creating the Mavi Vatan initiative. After being "demoted" Cihat Yayci launched BAU DEGS, which is a maritime strategy centre. Have no doubt that both Cihat Yayci and Cem Gurdeniz have direct contact with the military. Both are advisers.
Here is Cihat Yayci's twitter (BAU DEGS): https://twitter.com/baudegs?lang=en
Skyfall
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Is there any chance of dialogue or are they playing games? The last few weeks have seen support to Greece coming from US via lifting of arms embargo to Cyprus as well as joint statement of support by Med 7. So they are not really under any pressure for dialogue unless NATO or Germany has got involved. Perhaps their financial situation has meant that they are not in a position for any adventures.
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What would the eastern Mediterranean look like if Turkey was in the EU?
The European Union would likely be a productive mediator and not an antagonist as it is now. But it's not too late for the bloc to play a positive role.
After German mediation efforts were torpedoed by Greece signing a maritime delimitation deal with Egypt a day before the planned joint Turkish-Greek declaration, Turkey decided to continue its drilling activities within its continental shelf.
Greece, pushed by France, continues to escalate the rhetoric and threatens Turkey with European sanctions if Turkey does not stop its activities. The escalation between the neighbours has led to minor incidents in the sea and the airspace over the eastern Mediterranean.
What currently is being described as a major escalation, can be resolved. To find a path forward, one can speculate over the hypothetical: how might the disagreement have evolved if Turkey was a member of the European Union?
In the early years of the AK Party government, Ankara's relationship with the EU was flourishing, and the acceleration process came to a point where the EU membership seemed well within reach for Turkey.
However, the leadership in Europe proved unwilling to accept Turkey as a member state. Since then, both sides drifted apart but have tried to preserve the relationship as much as possible. If Turkey had become a member, today's escalation in the eastern Mediterranean would seem less intractable.
In such a scenario, the EU would be within an equal distance from both of its member states, the possible oil and gas resources would be seen as a common interest to minimise Turkey's and southern Europe's dependence on Russian gas. The disagreement over maritime boundaries would be discussed in a fair manner, and most likely EU member states would argue based on international law and equity.
Most likely, the Greek claims for the island of Meis (Kastellorizo) would not find any genuine support in the EU. The issue could quite easily be solved through an informal meeting of European leaders.
French, Italian, Turkish and energy companies of other nations would compete for lucrative opportunities in the eastern Mediterranean, and by rapidly solving the crisis and joining hands, the EU would reduce its dependency on foreign energy imports. With gas and oil discoveries and the growing trend of moving to renewable energy, the EU's energy policy would be more independent than ever before.
Even though this parallel world sounds idyllic, the realities right now are on the opposite end of the spectrum. Out of solidarity with Greece, the EU member states are putting their weight behind Athens' maximalist approach.
France, which itself rejected the same claims that Greece is making today, in its own dispute with the United Kingdom over the Channel Islands, is now Athens' strongest advocate. The animosity from Paris towards Ankara due to disagreements in Syria and Libya, and the idea of solidarity within the EU, is playing a destructive role.
France has become more visible, but the entirety of the European Union now backs the irrational Greek claims and is condemning Turkish drilling activities. This is despite the fact that current drilling activities are taking place in an area where Greek claims are the weakest.
At the moment, the EU has threatened Turkey with sanctions to be declared on the next official summit between the EU member states. European Council President Charles Michel stated that the EU will not only use sticks but also carrots to convince Turkey.
Although this approach by the EU is better than the 'only stick' approach by the US, it likely won't succeed. Contrary to the past, Turkey now also has sticks and carrots to use against the EU in general, and specific member states within the EU in particular.
Additionally, there seems to be no stick long enough, and no carrot big enough, to prevent Ankara from gaining energy independence – a dream for Turks since the foundation of the Turkish Republic.
Turkey's threat perception in on high alert due to illegal Greek activities in the Aegean Sea, and the EU is ignoring that factor. In spite of several international treaties, the Greeks have militarised several islands and declared its intention to expand the territorial waters of its islands from 6 nautical miles to 12 miles.
Due to the high density of Greek islands, increasing the territorial waters regime in the Aegean Sea would cut off Turkey and its link between the Black Sea and the Mediterranean, the Red Sea, the Atlantic, and the Indian Ocean. This would be a massive blow to the economy of the region.
Despite the current escalation, it is still not too late to find a comprehensive solution, but for this, the EU has to change its attitude and act as a mediator and not a provocateur.
Imagining how different the EU would have reacted if Turkey had become an EU member state. Right now, the EU needs to build trust with Turkey and prove that it is willing to facilitate negotiations on an equal footing. For that purpose, the EU can organise an unofficial EU and Turkey meeting just as if Turkey was a member of the EU.
Genuine incorporation of Turkish interests on an equal basis into an informal discussion between EU states will help to solve the crisis without further escalation.
This major meeting can function as the framework for further Turkish-Greek negotiations to resolve the conflict and settle the disagreement. For this option to have any chance, more genuine actors such as Germany, Spain and Bulgaria could play a more active role instead of actors such as France and Austria who are partly motivated by domestic politics.
A joint unofficial meeting between the leaders or foreign ministers of the European Union and Turkey could change the entire atmosphere from one of antagonism and escalation to one geared towards resolution.
In the second step, depending on the terms of the agreement in the summit, an international court, direct negotiations, or mediation by the Swiss as a non-EU state could be a way forward to a win-win solution.
At the end of the day, the exploration of gas and oil in the Mediterranean would benefit both the EU and Turkey while undercutting Russia, Iran, and the Gulf states.
www.trtworld.com
The European Union would likely be a productive mediator and not an antagonist as it is now. But it's not too late for the bloc to play a positive role.
After German mediation efforts were torpedoed by Greece signing a maritime delimitation deal with Egypt a day before the planned joint Turkish-Greek declaration, Turkey decided to continue its drilling activities within its continental shelf.
Greece, pushed by France, continues to escalate the rhetoric and threatens Turkey with European sanctions if Turkey does not stop its activities. The escalation between the neighbours has led to minor incidents in the sea and the airspace over the eastern Mediterranean.
What currently is being described as a major escalation, can be resolved. To find a path forward, one can speculate over the hypothetical: how might the disagreement have evolved if Turkey was a member of the European Union?
In the early years of the AK Party government, Ankara's relationship with the EU was flourishing, and the acceleration process came to a point where the EU membership seemed well within reach for Turkey.
However, the leadership in Europe proved unwilling to accept Turkey as a member state. Since then, both sides drifted apart but have tried to preserve the relationship as much as possible. If Turkey had become a member, today's escalation in the eastern Mediterranean would seem less intractable.
In such a scenario, the EU would be within an equal distance from both of its member states, the possible oil and gas resources would be seen as a common interest to minimise Turkey's and southern Europe's dependence on Russian gas. The disagreement over maritime boundaries would be discussed in a fair manner, and most likely EU member states would argue based on international law and equity.
Most likely, the Greek claims for the island of Meis (Kastellorizo) would not find any genuine support in the EU. The issue could quite easily be solved through an informal meeting of European leaders.
French, Italian, Turkish and energy companies of other nations would compete for lucrative opportunities in the eastern Mediterranean, and by rapidly solving the crisis and joining hands, the EU would reduce its dependency on foreign energy imports. With gas and oil discoveries and the growing trend of moving to renewable energy, the EU's energy policy would be more independent than ever before.
Even though this parallel world sounds idyllic, the realities right now are on the opposite end of the spectrum. Out of solidarity with Greece, the EU member states are putting their weight behind Athens' maximalist approach.
France, which itself rejected the same claims that Greece is making today, in its own dispute with the United Kingdom over the Channel Islands, is now Athens' strongest advocate. The animosity from Paris towards Ankara due to disagreements in Syria and Libya, and the idea of solidarity within the EU, is playing a destructive role.
France has become more visible, but the entirety of the European Union now backs the irrational Greek claims and is condemning Turkish drilling activities. This is despite the fact that current drilling activities are taking place in an area where Greek claims are the weakest.
At the moment, the EU has threatened Turkey with sanctions to be declared on the next official summit between the EU member states. European Council President Charles Michel stated that the EU will not only use sticks but also carrots to convince Turkey.
Although this approach by the EU is better than the 'only stick' approach by the US, it likely won't succeed. Contrary to the past, Turkey now also has sticks and carrots to use against the EU in general, and specific member states within the EU in particular.
Additionally, there seems to be no stick long enough, and no carrot big enough, to prevent Ankara from gaining energy independence – a dream for Turks since the foundation of the Turkish Republic.
Turkey's threat perception in on high alert due to illegal Greek activities in the Aegean Sea, and the EU is ignoring that factor. In spite of several international treaties, the Greeks have militarised several islands and declared its intention to expand the territorial waters of its islands from 6 nautical miles to 12 miles.
Due to the high density of Greek islands, increasing the territorial waters regime in the Aegean Sea would cut off Turkey and its link between the Black Sea and the Mediterranean, the Red Sea, the Atlantic, and the Indian Ocean. This would be a massive blow to the economy of the region.
Despite the current escalation, it is still not too late to find a comprehensive solution, but for this, the EU has to change its attitude and act as a mediator and not a provocateur.
Imagining how different the EU would have reacted if Turkey had become an EU member state. Right now, the EU needs to build trust with Turkey and prove that it is willing to facilitate negotiations on an equal footing. For that purpose, the EU can organise an unofficial EU and Turkey meeting just as if Turkey was a member of the EU.
Genuine incorporation of Turkish interests on an equal basis into an informal discussion between EU states will help to solve the crisis without further escalation.
This major meeting can function as the framework for further Turkish-Greek negotiations to resolve the conflict and settle the disagreement. For this option to have any chance, more genuine actors such as Germany, Spain and Bulgaria could play a more active role instead of actors such as France and Austria who are partly motivated by domestic politics.
A joint unofficial meeting between the leaders or foreign ministers of the European Union and Turkey could change the entire atmosphere from one of antagonism and escalation to one geared towards resolution.
In the second step, depending on the terms of the agreement in the summit, an international court, direct negotiations, or mediation by the Swiss as a non-EU state could be a way forward to a win-win solution.
At the end of the day, the exploration of gas and oil in the Mediterranean would benefit both the EU and Turkey while undercutting Russia, Iran, and the Gulf states.
What would the eastern Mediterranean look like if Turkey was in the EU?
The European Union would likely be a productive mediator and not an antagonist as it is now. But it's not too late for the bloc to play a positive role.
www.trtworld.com
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What would the eastern Mediterranean look like if Turkey was in the EU?
The European Union would likely be a productive mediator and not an antagonist as it is now. But it's not too late for the bloc to play a positive role.
After German mediation efforts were torpedoed by Greece signing a maritime delimitation deal with Egypt a day before the planned joint Turkish-Greek declaration, Turkey decided to continue its drilling activities within its continental shelf.
Greece, pushed by France, continues to escalate the rhetoric and threatens Turkey with European sanctions if Turkey does not stop its activities. The escalation between the neighbours has led to minor incidents in the sea and the airspace over the eastern Mediterranean.
What currently is being described as a major escalation, can be resolved. To find a path forward, one can speculate over the hypothetical: how might the disagreement have evolved if Turkey was a member of the European Union?
In the early years of the AK Party government, Ankara's relationship with the EU was flourishing, and the acceleration process came to a point where the EU membership seemed well within reach for Turkey.
However, the leadership in Europe proved unwilling to accept Turkey as a member state. Since then, both sides drifted apart but have tried to preserve the relationship as much as possible. If Turkey had become a member, today's escalation in the eastern Mediterranean would seem less intractable.
In such a scenario, the EU would be within an equal distance from both of its member states, the possible oil and gas resources would be seen as a common interest to minimise Turkey's and southern Europe's dependence on Russian gas. The disagreement over maritime boundaries would be discussed in a fair manner, and most likely EU member states would argue based on international law and equity.
Most likely, the Greek claims for the island of Meis (Kastellorizo) would not find any genuine support in the EU. The issue could quite easily be solved through an informal meeting of European leaders.
French, Italian, Turkish and energy companies of other nations would compete for lucrative opportunities in the eastern Mediterranean, and by rapidly solving the crisis and joining hands, the EU would reduce its dependency on foreign energy imports. With gas and oil discoveries and the growing trend of moving to renewable energy, the EU's energy policy would be more independent than ever before.
Even though this parallel world sounds idyllic, the realities right now are on the opposite end of the spectrum. Out of solidarity with Greece, the EU member states are putting their weight behind Athens' maximalist approach.
France, which itself rejected the same claims that Greece is making today, in its own dispute with the United Kingdom over the Channel Islands, is now Athens' strongest advocate. The animosity from Paris towards Ankara due to disagreements in Syria and Libya, and the idea of solidarity within the EU, is playing a destructive role.
France has become more visible, but the entirety of the European Union now backs the irrational Greek claims and is condemning Turkish drilling activities. This is despite the fact that current drilling activities are taking place in an area where Greek claims are the weakest.
At the moment, the EU has threatened Turkey with sanctions to be declared on the next official summit between the EU member states. European Council President Charles Michel stated that the EU will not only use sticks but also carrots to convince Turkey.
Although this approach by the EU is better than the 'only stick' approach by the US, it likely won't succeed. Contrary to the past, Turkey now also has sticks and carrots to use against the EU in general, and specific member states within the EU in particular.
Additionally, there seems to be no stick long enough, and no carrot big enough, to prevent Ankara from gaining energy independence – a dream for Turks since the foundation of the Turkish Republic.
Turkey's threat perception in on high alert due to illegal Greek activities in the Aegean Sea, and the EU is ignoring that factor. In spite of several international treaties, the Greeks have militarised several islands and declared its intention to expand the territorial waters of its islands from 6 nautical miles to 12 miles.
Due to the high density of Greek islands, increasing the territorial waters regime in the Aegean Sea would cut off Turkey and its link between the Black Sea and the Mediterranean, the Red Sea, the Atlantic, and the Indian Ocean. This would be a massive blow to the economy of the region.
Despite the current escalation, it is still not too late to find a comprehensive solution, but for this, the EU has to change its attitude and act as a mediator and not a provocateur.
Imagining how different the EU would have reacted if Turkey had become an EU member state. Right now, the EU needs to build trust with Turkey and prove that it is willing to facilitate negotiations on an equal footing. For that purpose, the EU can organise an unofficial EU and Turkey meeting just as if Turkey was a member of the EU.
Genuine incorporation of Turkish interests on an equal basis into an informal discussion between EU states will help to solve the crisis without further escalation.
This major meeting can function as the framework for further Turkish-Greek negotiations to resolve the conflict and settle the disagreement. For this option to have any chance, more genuine actors such as Germany, Spain and Bulgaria could play a more active role instead of actors such as France and Austria who are partly motivated by domestic politics.
A joint unofficial meeting between the leaders or foreign ministers of the European Union and Turkey could change the entire atmosphere from one of antagonism and escalation to one geared towards resolution.
In the second step, depending on the terms of the agreement in the summit, an international court, direct negotiations, or mediation by the Swiss as a non-EU state could be a way forward to a win-win solution.
At the end of the day, the exploration of gas and oil in the Mediterranean would benefit both the EU and Turkey while undercutting Russia, Iran, and the Gulf states.
What would the eastern Mediterranean look like if Turkey was in the EU?
The European Union would likely be a productive mediator and not an antagonist as it is now. But it's not too late for the bloc to play a positive role.
Sorry but wasting time with "what ifs" are not doing us any good. In politics you need room for manouvering, and at the moment Turkey has none.
See how western countries make deals with GC, Greece, Bahrain, UAE and so on. While Turkey is stuck on our fronts, Syria, Libya, Iraq, Azerbaijan.
Behind the scene politics.... You can't rely much on behind the scene politics of notable value if time is against you.
What cards do we have to play ? Compromise on Mavi Vatan. That is what I see RTE and AKP will do in secret behind the peoples back.
Unless we find oil/gas in Mediterranean in the middle of our EEZ and decide to drill it. I don't see how we're going to stand firm as RTE claims.
Libya offered a lifeline to Turkey to drill for gas and oil in their sea, and I think it's a good move as they're trying to help alleviate some of the pressure we may feel.
We can keep saying Greece violates treaties day and night, but not acting upon it is the same as accepting the truth of not being able to act upon it.
So what, should we throw tantrums, won't help a bit. The biggest card in our hand was and is the refugees, but unless you can ensure they get into EU countries then that's just a burden on us.
Refugees shouldn't have been the only card in our hands. RTE is reduced to a puppet by his own schemes to his own backers.
T
As soon as the first Syrians crossed the border and entered Turkey, Turkey became involved in the Syrian conflict, but it choose to bury its head in the sand and tried to ignore it. Now it comes back 10 fold and hits Turkey back.
If Turkey intervened in 2013, Syria would've been pacified and democratized under the guardianship of Turkey adn there would be no Iran, Russia, hezbollah, PKK/YPD/YPG and ISIS. Syria would be an example for the entire post Arab-spring region and the Gulf tyrants would be on the defensive. Sisi would've not been able to pull off the coup and Libyan conflict would've been resolved. No refugee wave in 2015 would mean no Trump election and Turkey would be admitted in the EU or at the least in deep talks to be admitted.
Instead Turkey is being besieged on all fronts and in different ways. Though times ahead for Turkey for sure.
If Turkey intervened in 2013, Syria would've been pacified and democratized under the guardianship of Turkey adn there would be no Iran, Russia, hezbollah, PKK/YPD/YPG and ISIS. Syria would be an example for the entire post Arab-spring region and the Gulf tyrants would be on the defensive. Sisi would've not been able to pull off the coup and Libyan conflict would've been resolved. No refugee wave in 2015 would mean no Trump election and Turkey would be admitted in the EU or at the least in deep talks to be admitted.
Instead Turkey is being besieged on all fronts and in different ways. Though times ahead for Turkey for sure.
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No, that wouldn't have happened. Turkey would have been dragged into a nasty war.
Also because of bad governance Turkish leader made really bad decisions. The operations was a way to try fix those bad mistakes.
The biggest mistake was the refugee deal with EU and before RTE croaks, he needs to explain why he signed that agreement, it was not signed for 1-2 years, but then he decides to sign it ? and on top of that a coup!
T
Take your time to read my post and to digest it, pls.
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I did read it, and that is why I wrote as I did.
The only way we could do this:
Would be through military invasion. But that would have had far reaching consequences. It would even require that Russia and Iran didn't take military action. And no one would support Assad when we did that.
