TR Marine Mavi Vatan (Blue Homeland)

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I did read it, and that is why I wrote as I did.

The only way we could do this:



Would be through military invasion. But that would have had far reaching consequences. It would even require that Russia and Iran didn't take military action. And no one would support Assad when we did that.

:)

The Syrians were basically begging for any intervention against Assad, only Obama was reluctant. Turkey should've shown balls and used just one army corps and its air force to destroy the remaining Assad forces. Bear in mind there was no Russia and very little Iranian presence in Syria. Also the NDF didn't exist at that moment and the only thing standing in Turkey's way to Assad's palace would be a republican guard brigade.

If you really think that the aftermath of a Turkish invasion could've been worse than the situation post 2014 in Syria and Iraq, then I have nothing more to say than: Indeed Turkey doesn't need an aircraft carrier, the whole of Turkey is an aircraft carrier
 
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CAN_TR

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If we wouldn't have such bright minds like Admiral Yayci and Gürdeniz forget about Mavi Vatan, our leaders would keep mention Greek violations but without acting as usual. Those two men infused the "Mavi Vatan" doctrine to a whole country only with social media.
Where are the state institutes for such topics? Not existing but one build up just recently by Admiral Yayci --> BAU DEGS.

Our foreign policy is a joke, strong diplomacy nearly not existing. We are right in the Eastern Mediterranean with our claims by international law but still not able to present it to the world.
 

Mis_TR_Like

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If we wouldn't have such bright minds like Admiral Yayci and Gürdeniz forget about Mavi Vatan, our leaders would keep mention Greek violations but without acting as usual. Those two men infused the "Mavi Vatan" doctrine to a whole country only with social media.
Where are the state institutes for such topics? Not existing but one build up just recently by Admiral Yayci --> BAU DEGS.

Our foreign policy is a joke, strong diplomacy nearly not existing. We are right in the Eastern Mediterranean with our claims by international law but still not able to present it to the world.

These two men have done so much for the country. As you mentioned, without them we would have lost in the Mediterranean the same way we did in Syria.
 

Test7

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Turkey has issued a new NAVTEX. NAVTEX says that Greece violated the unarmed island clause in the 1923 Lausanne Treaty

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Article 13

With a view to ensuring the maintenance of peace, the Greek Government undertakes to observe the following restrictions in the islands of Mytilene, Chios, Samos and Nikaria:

(1)No naval base and no fortification will be established in the said islands.

(2)Greek military aircraft will be forbidden to fly over the territory of the Anatolian coast. Reciprocally, the Turkish Government will forbid their military aircraft to fly over the said islands.

(3)The Greek military forces in the said islands will be limited to the normal contingent called up for military service, which can be trained on the spot, as well as to a force of gendarmerie and police in proportion to the force of gendarmerie and police existing in the whole of the Greek territory.

 

Saithan

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Turkey has issued a new NAVTEX. NAVTEX says that Greece violated the unarmed island clause in the 1923 Lausanne Treaty

View attachment 1373
View attachment 1374


Article 13

With a view to ensuring the maintenance of peace, the Greek Government undertakes to observe the following restrictions in the islands of Mytilene, Chios, Samos and Nikaria:

(1)No naval base and no fortification will be established in the said islands.

(2)Greek military aircraft will be forbidden to fly over the territory of the Anatolian coast. Reciprocally, the Turkish Government will forbid their military aircraft to fly over the said islands.

(3)The Greek military forces in the said islands will be limited to the normal contingent called up for military service, which can be trained on the spot, as well as to a force of gendarmerie and police in proportion to the force of gendarmerie and police existing in the whole of the Greek territory.


What meaning does it hold to make a NAVTEX on this ? Shouldn't they take it to UN with proof and evidence ?
 

Test7

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What meaning does it hold to make a NAVTEX on this ? Shouldn't they take it to UN with proof and evidence ?

I think this is a pre warning, EU summit will be held on September 24-25. This Navtex will be a legitimate argument for Turkey. Greece while claiming that Turkey has to comply with international law, Turkey will put this violation on Greece's table.
 

Saithan

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I think this is a pre warning, EU summit will be held on September 24-25. This Navtex will be a legitimate argument for Turkey. Greece while claiming that Turkey has to comply with international law, Turkey will put this violation on Greece's table.

I think a UN document would be much more effective and powerful as we would tell the entire world with proof of the violation.

I would like to point out that in all arguments our western allies or neighbors are pretty much ignoring our point of view and just stick to one side of the story.

This becomes much harder to do if all nations are informed of our stance and rights.

The entire world especially Africa and other BRIC countries will look at how EU will deal with the issue. Sanctioning Turkey while we've documented the violations will just be another nail in EU's coffin.
 

Saithan

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The interview is about what Turkey can do about the violation of Treaty of Lausanne.

The guy is pointing out that the moment military personelle set foot on the islands the treaties with conditional surrender of the islands to Greece becomes void.

Turkey needs to take proper steps in all area especially UN.
 

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Test7

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Article by Foreign Minister Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu titled “Our Preference in Eastern Mediterranean is Diplomacy without Preconditions” published in Kathimerini


The Mediterranean has always been the cradle of civilization as well as a basin of constant cultural and economic interaction. In this geography our past, present and future are inextricably intertwined. Turkey and Greece have always had only two choices: lock horns in a way that hurts both of us or find a win-win formula to define a mutually beneficial way forward.

The logic of 'permanent neighbor' naturally entails mutual respect for each other's rights. Unfortunately, this does not seem to be the case for what we experience in Turkey face these days.

Such mutual respect in turn should be manifest in a sense of obligation to solve all pending issues or outstanding conflicts through peaceful means and dialogue. In such a spirit, neighbors do not seek escalation, but seek direct diplomacy and dialogue in good faith and with an aim for genuine dispute resolution.


Recently, governments like that of France are displaying an ill-advised yearning for their colonialist past. Did we really forget so quickly that the colonial period brought nothing but enormous pain and suffering for so many peoples?

The pattern of accepted behavior of the metropolitan masters imposing their will on the periphery is over. Our President is advocating that the World is Bigger Than Five to call for a more equitable international order. We designate our foreign policy as Enterprising and Humanitarian to underscore the values we want to prevail and our tirelessness and creativity in pursuing them, all in service of the dictum of Peace at Home, Peace in the World formulated by Atatürk, who was nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize by Venizelos. That is why we underscore mutual respect and equitable solutions to problems.


That is why Turkey supports NATO's initiative towards de-confliction and Germany's initiative for de-escalation with the ultimate aim of reviving the already established bilateral mechanisms between Turkey and Greece. We hope that Athens understand that those are two different things. Turkey respects Greece enough not to want to negotiate and agree with other parties over issues that must be settled directly between the two neighbors.


Our basic objectives in the Eastern Mediterranean are clear:

- fair and equitable delimitation of maritime boundaries;


- protection of our continental shelf rights against maximalist and excessive maritime boundary claims;

- protection of Turkish Cypriots’ equal rights over the off-shore resources of the island through the establishment of equitable revenue sharing mechanism;

- creation of a genuine, inclusive, fair and equitable off-shore energy cooperation mechanisms with the participation of all parties, including the Turkish Cypriots (proposals to this end are still on the table) in the Eastern Mediterranean.


A string of maximalist claims cannot be imposed upon Turkey through the EU which has no competence over maritime boundary delimitation. You don’t get to cut off Turkey’s access to high seas and to its own maritime zones by claiming 40 thousand square kilometers of continental shelf for a tiny island like Meis or Kastellorizo that is only 2 kilometres away from Turkey and 580 from the Greek mainland. No law nor logic nor a basic sense of fairness would allow an opposite argument.

Furthermore, attempts towards excluding a country like Turkey -with the longest relevant coastline in the region, a growing population, production capacity, and increasing energy demand - from the riches of its own neighborhood are not realistic either. As we said it several times- that shall not happen.


Therefore Turkey will naturally be firm in not allowing attempts to harm her fundamental interests. We maintain a naval presence in the region not for offensive ends, but for self-defence against interference with our seismic research activities within our own continental shelf (that was declared in accordance with international law as far back as 16 years ago, by the way!).

Dialogue and negotiations are indeed the first and foremost means in international law to address maritime boundary issues. We thus expect Greece to revive all dialogue channels with Turkey without any preconditions. Preconditions beget counter-preconditions (believe me, we could come up with quite a few of our own) and thus is not a good way to seek talks between two neighbors.


Every crisis may create an opportunity and we must seize it to move ahead peacefully. It is evident that any negotiation process should include an exercise of give and take. The alternative is sweeping the problems under the carpet and hope they go away or somebody else solves them for you. However, problems tend to get ever more complicated as time goes by, let alone disappear on their own. We need strong, effective and rational leadership in order to hand down peace and security to future generations. That exists on Turkish side. What we do today will define not only today but also tomorrow and you know all too well that Turkey can go whichever way Greece chooses. The choice is in fact not that of Turkey nor France nor anyone else for that matter but of the esteemed leaders and people of Greece.

 

Huelague

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Lets put GR for accomplished fact. Take back islands and West Trakya. Provoke an accident in Mediterranean and sink a GR ship.
 

Vergennes

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He wants to be the next Napoleon but forgets something,

Give me a Turkish army and I will conquer the world

Napoleon Bonaparte

No French sources ever reported this quote from Napoléon. I've already heard this one but Turks replaced with the Cossacks. Both seem pretty doubtful anyways.
 

TR_123456

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No French sources ever reported this quote from Napoléon. I've already heard this one but Turks replaced with the Cossacks. Both seem pretty doubtful anyways.
It is everywhere except in French sources,right?
Why Cossacks,Napoleon beat the sh!t out of them,only nature defeated him?
 

Huelague

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Lets play hardball. FR is on the verge of a civil war. Millions of Muslims are waiting for a "revolution", as Western do in Muslim countries. Of course, just to spread peace, freedom and democracy :)
 

Ryder

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As soon as the first Syrians crossed the border and entered Turkey, Turkey became involved in the Syrian conflict, but it choose to bury its head in the sand and tried to ignore it. Now it comes back 10 fold and hits Turkey back.

If Turkey intervened in 2013, Syria would've been pacified and democratized under the guardianship of Turkey adn there would be no Iran, Russia, hezbollah, PKK/YPD/YPG and ISIS. Syria would be an example for the entire post Arab-spring region and the Gulf tyrants would be on the defensive. Sisi would've not been able to pull off the coup and Libyan conflict would've been resolved. No refugee wave in 2015 would mean no Trump election and Turkey would be admitted in the EU or at the least in deep talks to be admitted.

Instead Turkey is being besieged on all fronts and in different ways. Though times ahead for Turkey for sure.

To be honest Turkeys allies are all cowards. A german politician once admitted that Erdogan wanted a no fly zone as assad was going to use his own planes to kill his own people but the Europeans all were relecutant did not want to get involved.

Turkish backed fsa already took 60% of syria until Isis and the ypg fcked it up so bad.

Remember this Isis and Al Nusra were allied with the FSA against a common enemy until isis backstabbed the FSA. Isis and assad boh backed each other to weaken the Syrian rebels which worked coupled with an Russian intervention. Fsa has all but lost intiative this allowed the USA to abandon them to support the YPG. Overall a shitty situation.
 
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To be honest Turkeys allies are all cowards. A german politician once admitted that Erdogan wanted a no fly zone as assad was going to use his own planes to kill his own people but the Europeans all were relecutant did not want to get involved.

Turkish backed fsa already took 60% of syria until Isis and the ypg fcked it up so bad.

Remember this Isis and Al Nusra were allied with the FSA against a common enemy until isis backstabbed the FSA. Isis and assad boh backed each other to weaken the Syrian rebels which worked coupled with an Russian intervention. Fsa has all but lost intiative this allowed the USA to abandon them to support the YPG. Overall a shitty situation.

Turkey could do it on their own with the help of the FSA back then. Remember this was before 2014, so before the rise of ISIS and Russian involvement in Syria. 3 army divisions (1 corps) with the air support of the TuAF and of course the rebels, the forces of assad would stand no chance.
 

Ryder

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Turkey could do it on their own with the help of the FSA back then. Remember this was before 2014, so before the rise of ISIS and Russian involvement in Syria. 3 army divisions (1 corps) with the air support of the TuAF and of course the rebels, the forces of assad would stand no chance.

Perfect time to intervene the problem is whole world would have been against us starting with embargoes also sanctions because to them we invaded a country.
 

TR_123456

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As soon as the first Syrians crossed the border and entered Turkey, Turkey became involved in the Syrian conflict, but it choose to bury its head in the sand and tried to ignore it. Now it comes back 10 fold and hits Turkey back.

If Turkey intervened in 2013, Syria would've been pacified and democratized under the guardianship of Turkey adn there would be no Iran, Russia, hezbollah, PKK/YPD/YPG and ISIS. Syria would be an example for the entire post Arab-spring region and the Gulf tyrants would be on the defensive. Sisi would've not been able to pull off the coup and Libyan conflict would've been resolved. No refugee wave in 2015 would mean no Trump election and Turkey would be admitted in the EU or at the least in deep talks to be admitted.

Instead Turkey is being besieged on all fronts and in different ways. Though times ahead for Turkey for sure.
You cant imagine how many times we have said this.
 

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