TR Military Operations in Northern Iraq

[TSKlove]

In this case it is most probably in result of a wrong decision. Read the message above.

Damn. Iraq is one hell of a country.
Twitter is filled with p*k trolls right now who celebrate this attack.

 

[Kartal1]

This is footage of the position... for God's sake. This is unbelievable.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1738299875991662665

 

[Nutuk]

Talk is easy, the terrorist usually come when there is fog or rain that makes visibility and detectability very bad and thanks to our "ally" they have the latest ATGM's or manage some lucky hit with mortar.

Best defense is attack, continuous hunt of those animals. And let us be honest about our situation, no any country in the world would let those animals into their parliament, we do! So before starting to blame commanders, those blames are far Furter up in the hierarchy

 

[Bozan]

This is footage of the position... for God's sake. This is unbelievable.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1738299875991662665

Why are soldiers deployed here in winter instead of somewhere more defensible? This is incompetence or treason

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1738287429956636785

 

[DBdev]

Unmanned helicopters that can carry 500kg ()Titra Alpin v2?) should drop and retrieve unmanned ground vehicles like havelsan Barkan. Instead of vulnerable APCs, helicopters sending someone's baby to be targets on a mountain to freakin terrorists while also becoming metal coffins themselves on the way. 10 helicopters and 1000 UGVs should suffice.

Turkish firm developing country’s first unmanned helicopter

Turkey's Titra said it plans to produce 10 Alpin uncrewed helicopters per year, in addition to 250 kamikaze drones.

www.defensenews.com

Turkey’s Havelsan readies unmanned ground vehicle for joint ops

Turkish defense firm Havelsan’s unmanned ground vehicle (UGV), Barkan, will soon be on the field, furthering the vision of the company's “digital...

www.dailysabah.com

 

[Maximilien Robespierre]

PKK in that area suffers lack of atgms actually most of the time they tend to use old SPG-9s.

Talk is easy, the terrorist usually come when there is fog or rain that makes visibility and detectability very bad and thanks to our "ally" they have the latest ATGM's or manage some lucky hit with mortar.

Best defense is attack, continuous hunt of those animals. And let us be honest about our situation, no any country in the world would let those animals into their parliament, we do! So before starting to blame commanders, those blames are far Furter up in the hierarc

 

[Maximilien Robespierre]

This is a footage of the gopro of one of the 4 terrorists neutralized in the area while trying to infiltrate. You can clearly see the terrible conditions in which our soldiers are forced to operate.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1738297167922507963

tweet is deleted is there any other source???

 

[Kartal1]

Talk is easy, the terrorist usually come when there is fog or rain that makes visibility and detectability very bad and thanks to our "ally" they have the latest ATGM's or manage some lucky hit with mortar.

Best defense is attack, continuous hunt of those animals. And let us be honest about our situation, no any country in the world would let those animals into their parliament, we do! So before starting to blame commanders, those blames are far Furter up in the hierarchy

Why are soldiers deployed here in winter instead of somewhere more defensible? This is incompetence or treason

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1738287429956636785

While I mostly agree with you this event is in result of a purely taken decision for deployment at a point which will bring absolutely no benefit in a tactical way. There are well established bases in the same area a bit further to the north that are so well established that terrorists couldn't even dare to get close to and the moment they try they get BBQ'ed. A decision comparable to this is the recent redeployment at the Matin mountain (the last time we had to retreat due to the vulnerability from multiple directions, we also retreated from the east part of Seri due to similar conditions to the one at Tatasara which is the place of the current event) and I hope this winter we don't hear bad news from there, but be prepared. Offensive in the mountains is very different from what most people imagine. These are processes taking years and not days or weeks. The biggest problem is the tunnel network which allow the terrorists inside to survive for ~6 months without any resupply. Resupplying is done in the winter where means of recon can't detect movement. Cleaning of this tunnels is not a child's play as they are kilometers long (not the usual caves most of the people here know) full of IED threats, tightened and lowered places, reinforced doors, anti-pressure openings and rooms. Soldiers are waiting at the exit points for months. There are bodies of martyrs that are still in the tunnels which we still couldn't evacuate till this day. You have the period between the spring and summer for establishing of new positions and offensive operations against tunnels. If you miss that windows and don't clean the tunnel for example you are starting again next year as the tunnel is being resupplied in the winter, there are terrorists reinforcements moving under the cover of bad weather conditions and limited surveillance capability.

The difference between Matin for example and Tatasara is that the Matin tunnel network's exits are bombed everyday as a preventive measure and hope that the pressure from the bombs will be able to neutralize the terrorists and the positions at Matin are better organized and protected by both TSK and newly established Peshmerga positions. There is also another problem and this is the heavy fog which is preventing UCAVs and helicopters to work in their full potential.

You can see the position in a video above and can decide for yourselves if this is a good position to be in the winter where there is less than 200m visibility in perfect conditions and two tunnels full of terrorists are under your nose waiting for their chance. Reinforcement of the Tatasara position is absolutely not possible under the current conditions and existential needs of the soldiers are not even fulfilled. They are living in tents there without proper heating, properly organized defensive positions or the technical means for proper surveillance. Don't be shocked if we see a retreat from this position and the demolition of the base area as there is absolutely zero logic in this deployment (as we saw earlier at the eastern part of Seri). I can surely tell you that the terrorists in the caves are living in better conditions compared to our soldiers at the Tatasara base.

Forget about the stories from the 90's, the operations in 4 meters snow, -40. Forget about the most known operations till the Claw series. The Claw series is absolutely different in every way you could imagine. We are not talking about 1 weak deployments or raids, we are talking about area control without logistic corridors on enemy territory reinforced and defended for 40 years by a terrorist organization which is using the most modern means that a guerilla force can use with developed infrastructure which is expanding even in this current moment. This is not Hakkari or Sirnak, this is totally different.

Unmanned helicopters that can carry 500kg ()Titra Alpin v2?) should drop and retrieve unmanned ground vehicles like havelsan Barkan. Instead of vulnerable APCs, helicopters sending someone's baby to be targets on a mountain to freakin terrorists while also becoming metal coffins themselves on the way. 10 helicopters and 1000 UGVs should suffice.

Turkish firm developing country’s first unmanned helicopter

Turkey's Titra said it plans to produce 10 Alpin uncrewed helicopters per year, in addition to 250 kamikaze drones.

www.defensenews.com

Turkey’s Havelsan readies unmanned ground vehicle for joint ops

Turkish defense firm Havelsan’s unmanned ground vehicle (UGV), Barkan, will soon be on the field, furthering the vision of the company's “digital...

www.dailysabah.com

Titra Alpin was used and tested in the area. According to rumors the operators didn't liked its performance.

Deployment of UGV at points like these will not bring any benefit as it can't keep up to the dynamic of the points. Heavier class UGV's are logical for bigger bases and static positions on which we usually deploy ACVs or Tanks as mobile cannons.

tweet is deleted is there any other source???

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1738294516937838722

 

[Sanchez]

An analysis and critique from our main source in these operations: https://twitter.com/hakikatlariniza

He's blown, his days are numbered now. Was a good source of osint for years, pity.

 

[DBdev]

UGV is not supposed to defeat PKK. It is supposed to draw fire and give the main base early warning. You know instead of sending soldiers to mountain tops at -50 degrees to draw fire like our oh so smart officers are doing for decades.

 

[Heartbang]

Nuke those mountains.

 

[Ryder]

Northern Iraq is full of mountains and hills.

Its easy to lose your guard in such a terrain. Also prime place for ambushes along with traps.

 

[Nutuk]

Why nuke mountains while the terrorists are in our meclis, it's like filling a bucket without a bottom

 

[Kartal1]

UGV is not supposed to defeat PKK. It is supposed to draw fire and give the main base early warning. You know instead of sending soldiers to mountain tops at -50 degrees to draw fire like our oh so smart officers are doing for decades.

At positions like these no UGV could be effective. Actually nothing could be effective. You just don't establish base at that point.

In better established bases there are radars, E/O systems and possibility for RCWS working, but we are talking about bases with established road connections or better overall position for resupply.

On places like these in Tatasara let alone UGV, even supplies of first need like, food, water and hygiene supplies are hardly delivered. If you look closely at the video you can see that there are even not properly established defensive positions, but just tents. The soldiers are taking very high risk by placing projectors on places like these at the heading of the approaching terrorists in order to limit their ability to see while coming up the summit and in the best case Aselsan Acar/Meteksan Retinar radar which are not always effective as there are blind spots. Fog and snow storms are just defeating any technology there and this is the best time for the terrorists to attack as they are acting like "inghimasi".

A UGV can draw fire if it is an actual threat and on a place like this it is a sitting duck and a low priority target as it is not working. You just throw 5-10 hand grenades (a full team can easily do it) in the area of these tents and wait for reaction which will be to change position. If somebody has to change his position while on defensive role on a mountain hill this means that the hill's defense is flawed and further infiltration will be imminent. The hardest thing for a defending guard is to control the urge to move. This is why the importance of guards and their proper placement is critical. If the guard is not doing his job properly, the position of the guard is flawed (not enough angle, blind spots, limited visibility) the terrorists can gain fire superiority over the position in the first moments of the opening and the rest is blood and tears. This is why the points of deployment must be chosen very carefully and further evaluation and analysis over the position must be done by the commanding officers on field. In this case even if such analysis occurred the measures could not be taken on time as strengthening the base in the winter, digging of positions and the deliveries of the needed materials is just impossible. This is why such initiatives are taken in the spring or summer at latest and the place is chosen firstly according to exposure and chance for resupply. This is the period where you see vulnerabilities and can fill the gaps, can maneuver and work.

 

[DBdev]

Resisting new technology is the bane of Turkish mind since Ottoman era. A knee jerk reaction, quick dismissal of anything new and useful is now in our genes apparently. Someone will say "Gavur icadı bu" / "this thing is made by unbelievers" and that will be the end of that new technology like printing press. Back to darkness...


Current products doesn't have to be flawless. Anyone can find a flaw in anything to dismiss it.

Point is: It can still be useful while it is being improved by constant feedback from the field without risking any more lives. If "foto kapan"/motion sensor battery operated forest camera is successfully used to track PKK and kill them later with drone operations why are we so against adding a gun to that camera? If you position motion sensing cameras around your BVR remote perimeter PKK can't infiltrate without waking up entire main base. Or you can use dozens of quadcopters from the main base for constant software controlled autonomous patrols. Anything, anything at all but this irrational insistence on the old ways that clearly doesn't serve us and keeps getting our boys killed.

As always technology is the answer not throwing more bodies to meat grinder.

 

[Kartal1]

Resisting new technology is the bane of Turkish mind since Ottoman era. A knee jerk reaction, quick dismissal of anything new and useful is now in our genes apparently. Someone will say "Gavur icadı bu" / "this thing is made by unbelievers" and that will be the end of that new technology like printing press. Back to darkness...


Current products doesn't have to be flawless. Anyone can find a flaw in anything to dismiss it.

Point is: It can still be useful while it is being improved by constant feedback from the field without risking any more lives. If "foto kapan"/motion sensor battery operated forest camera is successfully used to track PKK and kill them later with drone operations why are we so against adding a gun to that camera? If you position motion sensing cameras around your BVR remote perimeter PKK can't infiltrate without waking up entire main base. Or you can use dozens of quadcopters from the main base for constant software controlled autonomous patrols. Anything, anything at all but this irrational insistence on the old ways that clearly doesn't serve us and keeps getting our boys killed.

As always technology is the answer not throwing more bodies to meat grinder.

In the case of the photo traps it is actually a heavy OPSEC violation to share footage of them. The photo trap is set in a way to be as hidden as possible and not make the terrorist aware. It is used as an alerting system where a terrorist activity in an area can be confirmed, terrorists can be tracked and later neutralized at a different place. It is important for the trap to be well hidden in order for the terrorists to keep use the same route and make them feel safe. RCWS systems are placed at some base areas, but out in the open the silhouette is too big and they are an open target. There are also more limitations like power supply and communication with the station and this will make the system's silhouette even bigger. When you are out in the open the primitive properties of the man are sharpening. Eyesight, hearing, the nose starts to work differently and you start to hear, see, smell things easier and be more sensitive to change in the environment.

Don't think that there is no technology at our better established base areas. It is just that technology alone is not enough. You must establish the needed conditions so you can utilize technology in the best way possible. For example the bases a bit to the north didn't gave casualties for years because of the combination of good established positions, disciplined soldiers and technology. Sometimes it is just not possible as in this case.

TSK is out of the cold war mentality. New and innovative solutions are being implemented and tested on the field, but sometimes as in this case the decision taking human factor can do mistakes.

 

[TheInsider]

We need long-endurance under-cloud UAVs with SWIR cameras that can carry rockets/bombs.

 

[Sanchez]

Fuck opsec i guess

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1726926059310870997

 

[Kartal1]

Fuck opsec i guess

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1726926059310870997

There are many violations from top to the bottom at all levels. Sensitive information is shared by official sources and personnel like its nothing while terrorists exploit every chance. It is almost like these people are underestimating the capabilities of PKK in the social media while I think their media team did so much of a good work that we came to a state where we can't even explain to the public in allied countries that they are terrorists.

While I don't want to enter too deep so there is not much off topic I think there is a very big vulnerability in this regard. OPSEC/PERSEC rules must be revisited and new laws must be made for those who dare to share sensitive information as this is comparable to the level of espionage. All the defense related media content no matter if it is TSK or the industry must be controlled by a specially trained commission which approves content and unauthorized leaks of information must be punished according to the law in the harshest ways. The media team of the MoND must be replaced with people that were specially trained regarding these matters. They not only don't have a talent of sharing edited content that is pleasing to the eyes but also endanger the security of our soldiers. Send them to training under the Directorate of Communication or somewhere abroad but somebody must already put an end to this. The current state of affair is unacceptable.

 

[Aqerdf]

There was an report or something from US intelligence etc. regarding TR.

They were saying "OSINT data leakage from official / unofficial Turkish sources was covering our data gathering very much" or something like that.

Pfffff...