TR Military Operations in Northern Iraq

[Bozan]

Urbanisation? Really? Armenians, Greeks, Asyrians and others had all of that, it turned out for them as it did. Eventually something similar will happen to the Kurds . Not on such scale but what I am sure that the thing that they want will not happen.
This is not 40 years old , it is 150 160 years old problem. Not much in the root of thing changed.
To build a public toilet in some mountain village? That will solve the issue? Hahaha. By the way in the context of history, regular and recorded conflicts happen there for the last 5000 years. Afterall, Anatolia is nor Scandinavia where mostly nothing really happens, like forever.

Why do you think TSK are building so many roads ? It's not just for bases.

 

[mehmed beg]

Why do you think TSK are building so many roads ? It's not just for bases.

I don't think anything nor your question is related to what I wrote.
Anyway, I won't state directly what I think but few days ago , for God knows how many times, some Israeli guy yet again claimed Turkish territory . Also , he expressed the ambition that the Kurds be their tampon zone. We say in my country, what the clever one keeps in his chest, the stupid discloses.
For me war in Syria, primarily is war against Turkey. Seemingly all other " warring" parties live in the best possible enmity.
All those problems came about by creating the nations out of ethno groups. The promises were given a long ago and even if a fortune is given to certain parties it won't charge a thing.
The Armenians 1914 held 85% of all deposits in Van Banks , yet in June 1915 there were only 1500 Muslims left.
I tend to look at the habits, culture, mentality, folklor of given nations. In the Kurds, I see a lot what Armenians were and are Kurdish now ( not completely).
I see nowadays that for example that Asyrians want pretty large state ( haha since 607 BC) , Yezidis think that they are 6000 old separate entity Armenians think what always they have been thinking, . Kurds are extraordinary though. Black Sea , The Gulf, Kaspyan sea and Mediterranean sea are the borders of that ancient people, who don't even have the common language nor geography.
Well that kind of psychosis I saw in Balkans but now anywhere.
This war will last for a long, the only way to finish it is , if strong Sunni Arab entity arises and strong Sunni religious Kurds increas in numbers. Until such thing happens, the best direction for Turkey is to strengthen the relationship with people who are loyal to Turkey. Central Asia, Caucasus and Balkans.
I myself, given the opportunity, wouldn't hesitate for second to pick my stuff and go to fight in those tunnels.
I said it before, something like Tashkilat or Legion is needed.
The rest are just the enemies. They were 100 years ago , 50 years ago, now and in future.
I am well aware who are the Saudis, Iranians, Russians ,Isrealis, Americans , I am not a kid. For the compelled one is to ride bad horses. It is like that not since 1979 but somtime around 1840.
In UK , the Iraqi Kurds who are devoted are not the enemies of Turkey. For those people only is worth to build something. The res of them , F them

 

[Scott Summers]

I doNot to want to sound like terrorist organization propaganda, but previously the PKK could block highways and check IDs within the borders of Turkey. These are now over, thanks to these cross-border operations. In terms of security, currently Hakkari is not different from other Anatolian cities. Unfortunately, there is a scourge of terrorism and we are suffering martyrs. However, the benefits of these operations cannot be ignored. Military service is difficult. Even in Anatolia, we even have soldiers who freeze to death and become martyrs.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1745918668448440711

Retired General Osman Pamukoğlu: “I am against establishing bases across the border, we have nothing to do with land.

We are looking for the terrorist. We enter, destroy it in 3-4 days and leave.

I entered and exited Iraq 21 times. Why? I don't need to stay there.

There is only one formula in unconventional warfare: Search-find-destroy.

Just like an eagle pursuing its prey, you will soar and take it in an instant. You won't settle there.

The USA suffered 56 thousand deaths by raiding its bases in Vietnam.

Base means you are fixed, you are being watched, you are being followed.

If you have a base, you will be attacked when you are weak.”

Oh please, all those retired generals. In their times Turkish soldiers sometimes didnt get ammo on time to fight the PKK. Their only tactic was get the artillery and bomb empty deserts and mountains and then mission completed pull back.

PKK entering villages and killing civillians, kidnapping teachers and pedestrians and burning schools and the army arrived just days later because of bad communication and bad roads.

PKK controlling roads with checkpoints, the airforce bombing the wrong hotspots etc.

90% of the 40.000 martyrs Turkey lost in the time of these oldschool generals.

The TSK is much more succesfull now in the fight against terror.

 

[Sanchez]

Oh please, all those retired generals. In their times Turkish soldiers sometimes didnt get ammo on time to fight the PKK. Their only tactic was get the artillery and bomb empty deserts and mountains and then mission completed pull back.

PKK entering villages and killing civillians, kidnapping teachers and pedestrians and burning schools and the army arrived just days later because of bad communication and bad roads.

PKK controlling roads with checkpoints, the airforce bombing the wrong hotspots etc.

90% of the 40.000 martyrs Turkey lost in the time of these oldschool generals.

The TSK is much more succesfull now in the fight against terror.

I already said my piece on Pamukoğlu. Yeah, nah. We also had operational deficiencies in 90s, PKK was much more successful in recruiting and it had much more members in Turkey+Iraq. There was no thermal tech, we only had 9 attack helicopters we could rely on, used F-104s, F-4s and early F-16s without LANTIRN to do bombing raids. But in no point in 90s, we ever lost city centers to PKK. We not only beat them, we made them run away to Iraq, deep into Kandil and chased after them. This retired general did just that, his record speaks for himself. Had we went in Iraq in 2003 with US like army cadre actually wanted it to, PKK would be more or less dead today.

I won't let anyone tarnish the memories of those fallen and veterans by "we didn't even have refrigerators back then" rhetoric. After 1999, until 2005, numbers of martyrs per year went down to 2 digits, something we only come close to again once in 2013, when the "peace process" was started and in 2019.

 

[Kartal1]

This winter, we lost 9 martyrs in yesterday's Matin Mountain attack, 7 in the previous two different Matin Mountain attacks, 6 in Hakurk/Sur hill, 3 in Amedi hill, and 1 in Seri. A total of 26 martyrs. The number of martyrs is the same as the total of two major operations, Claw-Thunderbolt, Claw-Lightning. You can compare the situation.

Indicated the regions where we lost martyrs and the number of martyrs on the map. The common feature of these regions is that they were not kept last winter. There had been deployments to the remaining hills, except for Hakurk/Sur hill, but when winter came, withdrawal took place.

The harsh criticism we made regarding the establishment of a base on Hakurk/Sur hill close to winter remains. I don't need to write again. Now we will examine the other 3 regions separately. First we examine Amedi, then Seri and Matin.

There was deployment on Amedi hill in the first year of Claw Lock (2022). There were 2 tunnels in the area. The hills held for the winter were evacuated and there was a deployment again last year. The organization evacuated one of the two tunnels. 1 tunnel left. It is not a big and crowded tunnel either.

Things were going well on Amedi Hill. Many terrorists were neutralized. "Many" caves recently evacuated by the organization were destroyed. Good bases were also established towards winter. So things were going well. But in the end, we still lost 3 martyrs.

Since we're not in the area right now, it wouldn't be nice to talk about the situation. But we can say that the situation is better compared to other regions. It is much safer than the other 3 regions. We martyrs due to the road, the base area was not infiltrated.

Seri is the second region in Iraq where we had the most martyrs this year, after Matin. The withdrawal took place in the winter of 2022. In 2023, the operation started late due to the election. When the op started in the region, we also saw that the terrorists were waiting for the Turkish Armed Forces to come again.

Support was sent to the tunnel. New loopholes have been opened in the tunnel area. In 2022, the tunnel and its entrances were somehow taken under control. Terrorists were coming to the hill from the south. This year, tunnel entrances could not be taken under control.

As a result, they came out of the tunnel and carried out many attacks. The tunnel is also very big. There is no way it can be destroyed with current tactics. We continued to try the same things and we suffered martyrs. The situation continues the same way.

Let's come to Mount Matin. Mount Matin is the most difficult area for the Claw operation. There is a very large tunnel at the top. There is another large tunnel underneath. Think of it like a triangle with the base pointing sideways. Let the ends of the triangle be the tunnel entrances. As the corners of the triangle narrow, the risk increases.

Here, the safe zone is inside the triangle. Tunnel above, tunnel below. There is a possibility that they may come from both the right and the left. The place where the triangle is facing is Tepe Bahar. That's also a PKK base. Another issue is that the region remains above the civilian area.

It is a region we have never experienced before in claw operations. The organization is able to supply those terrorists below the hill. It can carry out surveillance work over civilian areas. They may come through civilian areas. So they have camouflage on them that we can't see until we they get to the walls of the base.

There is already a large group of PKK members right under the hill. There are still many terrorists at the top. It is quite disadvantageous for the Turkish Armed Forces. The two sides are very close to each other. This closeness benefits the PKK when weather conditions are bad. The weather conditions were the same both of the Matin Mountain attacks.

Under the current situation and conditions, I don't think there is anything the soldiers in the region can do. They cannot notice the PKK members until they open fire. Even after surviving the first fire, it is very difficult to recover from the shock and respond harshly to the attack. The terrorists are coming no stop anyway.

The terrorists who carried out the Amedi and Matin Mountain attacks come from Gara. Haki Armanc led the attacks. He was cornered in Turkiye before July 15. When the coup broke out, he somehow escaped to Iraq/Gara. Now he is leading the attacks on Claw Lock.

Solid intelligence is needed to prevent the supply coming from Gara. Because there is a civil zone between Gara and Zap/Metina regions. There is no strong order in this civilian area. PKK members come and go and do their business with the local people.

Let's return to Mount Matin again. There is 1 main base on Matin mountain. Next to the Peshmerga base. There are points holding the tunnels in front of this main base. The base was expanded rapidly in a really short time. We saw this both from satellite and from drone images shared by PKK.

But we still have to ask the question, was it enough for this winter? We also say this for the Matin Mountain region. Most of us here could barely believe that Mount Matin would be kept in winter. We were thinking that they would probably withdraw by November. But it's January and the construction equipment is still working.

There may be a logic that if we retreat here in winter, we will have a harder time next year. Because this happened in Seri. But you need to calculate if you have enough opportunities and suitable conditions to spend the winter there. If we lose 16 martyrs on just one hill in winter, we say neither the opportunity nor the conditions are suitable.

We did not lose 16 martyrs in Claw-Lightning. We cleared more than 10 hills in Claw Lightning. The area of the organization's Metina camp on the Turkish border was completely cleared. More than 100 terrorists were neutralized. Bases like castles were also established. They were not infiltrated for 2 years.

We don't understand what the Turkish Armed Forces is thinking here. There is a problem. TSK's solution to this problem is to push even harder. The problem persists, what should we do now? Let's push even harder. These are the consequences of pushing too hard.

For a good source on the operations in the north of Iraq: https://twitter.com/hakikatlariniza

 

[UkroTurk]

Guys this time is really different. PKK dogs were supplied with intelligence from some countries. How could those mountain monkeys have known about the motion of our soldiers if they hadn't been fed from foreign intelligences. Satellite images, thermal cameras etc had worked before those attacks.

Just intelligence agencies of global powers could have noticed vulnerabilities of our soldiers.

Need to increase diplomatic pressure on foreign supplies.

Cursing western block and jews doesn't help.

Need to change anti Israel rhetoric.

 

[Kartal1]

Guys this time is really different. PKK dogs were supplied with intelligence from some countries. How could those mountain monkeys have known about the motion of our soldiers if they hadn't been fed from foreign intelligences. Satellite images, thermal cameras etc had worked before those attacks.

Just intelligence agencies of global powers could have noticed vulnerabilities of our soldiers.

Need to increase diplomatic pressure on foreign supplies.

Cursing western block and jews doesn't help.

Need to change anti Israel rhetoric.

Abi, there is no need for intelligence services to obtain information on the situation of the bases. Firstly they managed to fly a drone where they managed to capture all of our bases at Matin including the ones of Peshmerga. More or less the bases are equipped with the same technology everywhere.

If we talk about intelligence right before the attack there are civilians in the area that work with PKK. A village is just below the base area. The terrorists are looking at the weather conditions and attack when the base is most vulnerable.

The reason why we say that PKK changed tactics is because they no more attack in small groups of 2-3 terrorists. The PKK especially in the area of Matin received hard critiques from the leader cadres in Qandil regarding the lack of effective attacks. They took the decision to increase the scope of the attacks by sending large specially trained teams from Gara of 20-30 people at once. Some of them climb from the village and other are attacking from the tunnels. After they gain the fire superiority it is very difficult for our soldiers to react. At the previous attack on Matin our soldiers managed to ambush a group of terrorists and disrupt the plan. We would've given even more casualties if it wasn't for the ambush.

While we don't see a change in the bases we see that TSK started to obtain intelligence on the logistic traffic to Gara (from there it goes to Matin). TSK took out two trucks full of supplies yesterday in unprecedented way. This is good as it is showing that TSK is aware of the logistics traffic and managed to obtain firm intelligence on shipments.

We said it many times. The real problem there are the big tunnels. The tunnels are the reason our soldiers are deployed there. We must find a way to destroy them. Some suggested MOAB like bomb, I suggested fiber-optic controlled UGVs. One way or another we must deal with these tunnels and all our tactical problems will be sorted out. By the looks TSK can not adapt to this threat (the tunnels are becoming bigger and more sophisticated with the depth) and this is why our critique at TSK is so harsh.

Some people even dream of entering Gara while Gara's tunnels will be even harder to defeat than the ones we are facing now. I really want our defence industry companies to start thinking intensely over this problem. We saw this in Vietnam, Afghanistan, Azovstal, Iraq, Syria, Gaza etc. Tunnels are very serious problem for the advancement of our armed forces in the contested areas and we face them everywhere. A good established tunnel network is almost impossible to be cleared with the current methods and tactics. Chemical weapons are out of question.

 

[Bozan]

I doNot to want to sound like terrorist organization propaganda, but previously the PKK could block highways and check IDs within the borders of Turkey. These are now over, thanks to these cross-border operations. In terms of security, currently Hakkari is not different from other Anatolian cities. Unfortunately, there is a scourge of terrorism and we are suffering martyrs. However, the benefits of these operations cannot be ignored. Military service is difficult. Even in Anatolia, we even have soldiers who freeze to death and become martyrs.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1745918668448440711

Retired General Osman Pamukoğlu: “I am against establishing bases across the border, we have nothing to do with land.

We are looking for the terrorist. We enter, destroy it in 3-4 days and leave.

I entered and exited Iraq 21 times. Why? I don't need to stay there.

There is only one formula in unconventional warfare: Search-find-destroy.

Just like an eagle pursuing its prey, you will soar and take it in an instant. You won't settle there.

The USA suffered 56 thousand deaths by raiding its bases in Vietnam.

Base means you are fixed, you are being watched, you are being followed.

If you have a base, you will be attacked when you are weak.”

This is a big problem. Even if I think you are the most wrong about this in terms of strategy or the interests of the country, you should not be afraid to share the opinion of a former military person because it might be used as terrorist propaganda. We can debate it and hopefully the outcome is a better way of thinking.

This is what I meant in my previous post, imagine how it is in govemrent when something goes wrong.

 

[Ryder]

Basically pkk being destroyed in the 90s and 2000s is nothing more than a bullshit myth.

They constantly used the mountains to nurse themselves back to health.

Constantly bombing then raiding them in Iraq then withdrawing back to Turkiye did nothing to destroy pkks capabilities.

Hence why I see that the Claw operation is much more effective than the 90s operations. Pkk is now being fought in their home ground.

Still mistakes upon mistakes are being repeated. Where are the upgraded bases? What is going on?

 

[Mis_TR_Like]

If we really want to defeat PKK once and for all I'm afraid we will have to takeover northern Iraq and clean up the cities the same way we cleaned up the Southeast. PKK doesn't just magically sprout out in the mountains... They gather their terrorists, weapons and supplies from the cities and villages of northern Iraq. We can't just continue to fight them in up in the mountains without considering the fact that they are basically freely using KRG towns to grow their forces.

As for tackling them in the mountains, I believe that this fight will require some unconventional solutions. We really need to think outside the box instead of using the same old tactics. We also need to develop new weapons specifically designed for this type of warfare.

• I hope we make heavy use of SAR and LiDAR to map their tunnels (TSK/MIT should already have an extensive understanding of their tunnel network)
• We should set up decoy bases to bait and ambush them. This would eventually have a psychological effect on them and they wouldn't attempt to raid any outposts.
• We should use chained aerostats to provide constant surveillance in critical areas
• Heavy use of UGVs
• Unmanned helicopters: In my opinion, we really should go forward with the T629 unmanned helicopter program (with a gas turbine engine instead of electric). They offer numerous benefits over fixed wing UCAVs. They can hunt terrorists in the mountains more efficiently as they would be better at detecting and targeting cave openings due to their ability to fly underneath the peaks of the mountains. They would also be great platforms for LiDAR. Imagine a dozen T629s constantly patrolling the mountains, investigating any sign of a cave opening and raining down hell on it. The psychological impact alone would make many PKK members regret their life choices. The constant sound of the turboshaft engines would be a nightmare for them.
• Unconventional munitions and UGVs: We should consider some new concepts such as UGVs which plant anti-personnel explosives/mines in their tunnels, kamikaze UGVs, as well as ways of deploying these from drones and helicopters (STM has hinted at concepts like this).

 

[Ryder]

Lets all be honest with ourselves KRG has done fck all to fight PKK.

Its stupid of Turkiye to rely on the Krg to do anything. Also its stupid to rely on Iraqi central government to do anything.

Turkiye only way they can clean this is a two front war in both Iraq and Syria.

What is Turkiye afraid of? Whole world turning against us?

Fck them

 

[Ryder]

Turkiye needs to dig in tell everybody that this war will take years to win.

No peace process.

Cyprus conflict has not been solved yet but who cares as long Turkiye defends its interest.

 

[Slayer]

I said i before, I'd say again. Those tunnels needs to be dealt with any which way, gas, poison. The PKK plays dirty so do we.

 

[CAN_TR]

A huge ass guided thermobaric bomb would heat up their tunnels really good, then move in and destroy the tunnels so that they can't be used again.

This is not a big deal for our Defence Industry and makes way more sense than trying to develop useless UGV's for tunnels.

 

[Kartal1]

Sources reported that at least 6 terrorists were killed in an attempted infiltration in Gapnerk Mountain. Gapnerk is area of critical importance as there is a tunnel network there.

 

[RMZN]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1746436674899366191

 

[Scott Summers]

This is a scandal. Wounded soldiers who could be saved are killed inside by PKK-sympathizers.

The militairy hospitals with only Turkish medics should come back. This stupid government is the most incompetent government Turkey ever has seen.

 

[Kartal1]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1746436674899366191

This is the result of the lack of military hospitals.

 

[Ryder]

This is a scandal. Wounded soldiers who could be saved are killed inside by PKK-sympathizers.

The militairy hospitals with only Turkish medics should come back. This stupid government is the most incompetent government Turkey ever has seen.

The problem is, its racist to mention the ethhic group that is doing it.

 

[YeşilVatan]

A huge ass guided thermobaric bomb would heat up their tunnels really good, then move in and destroy the tunnels so that they can't be used again.

This is not a big deal for our Defence Industry and makes way more sense than trying to develop useless UGV's for tunnels.

What if we had a cheap, reusable turboprop dive bomber which delivers very cheap but yuge, dumb thermobaric bombs? Just throwing it out there.