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YeşilVatan

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This is years old. PKK accounts have a few of these and put them in circulation every 6 months. Since drones were introduced in mid 2010s, PKK's main aim is not to curb military movement but produce propaganda videos. The initiative is completely with the Turkish side, because PKK can't even gather in groups of tens (because drones). They just do 2-5 person infiltration raids and try to film it for propaganda.

Search for "sarı torba" if you want to see a much common occurance.
 

Nutuk

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Don't blame the Kurds, they do their part.

Blame our politicians who are so soft to allow them even in our parliament. This is no way to fight terror.
 

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Shhh, the Islamists may hear you!

According to them Israel is the eternal enemy of Turkiye, they helped PKK come to the level they are today, they directed ISIS to attack us, they are the biggest evil that Turkiye faced and we should be in war with them, sending mujahids and suicide bombers to liberate the Palestinian State because we were kings and shiet and the Palestinians wet their panties when they hear that our Ottoman Sultan will rule them once again from Istanbul... I'm not joking!

These are the people that don't know or don't want to remember that we were in close coordination with Israel during our operations in Lebanon (the same places like the Bekaa Valley which Israel bombs today, hunting for Hezbollah commanders) and Syria, MOSSAD trained Turkish teams to conduct covert operations against HVTs in these countries and also MOSSAD played a role in the capture of Abdullah Ocalan. After the news came out Israeli and Turkish flags were burned in Palestine by fighters of the Palestinian Liberation Organization with the presence of world medias. In the same time PKK attacked the Israeli Embassy in Berlin, killing 3 and wounding another 14 people. I am talking about the fighters of the same PLO of which the members are fighting together with Hamas against Israel in Gaza.

Our only martyr in the sacred lands in the 21st Century came in result of a Palestinian bullet fired at us in Hebron. Little known and well covered fact by the Islamist media in Turkiye was the presence of Turkish military unit in Palestine under the Temporary International Presence in Hebron before the suspension of its activities in 2019. While on duty our forces were first attacked by protesters with rocks (both settlers and Palestinians were conducting these attacks) and then a vehicle belonging to the TIPH was attacked by a Palestinian Authority Police personnel, martyring Major Cengiz TOYTUNC, killing another Swiss national, Catherine Berruex and wounding one more Turkish officer which was on duty. Of course Islamists were fast to say that an Israeli SOF member attacked the car because the bullet holes in the bodies of the deceased were from a 5.56x45 round, while our wounded officer said that the man who attacked the vehicle wore a Palestinian Authority Police uniform. Right after the attack a fight between the IDF and Palestinian insurgents/Police erupted. Contrary to the bullshit these people are talking, yes the 5.56x45 is in the inventory of the Palestinian Authority Police. The whole situation is happening in an IDF controlled sector where any Palestinian force has nothing to do in.

Islamist propaganda was so strong in the last 20 years that the people forgot about the multiple fields of cooperation between Israel and Turkiye especially when it comes to maters of defence and national security.

Why am I saying this? Not because I want to discredit the Palestinian Cause and neglect the pain and genocide trough which the Palestinian people are going trough. I am saying this in order to remind how we managed to f*ck up things that could've been better with our own hands, managed to turn one of the strongest lobbies in the world against us, didn't change anything for the Palestinians and still manage to be best buddies with the same suicide bombers which are best buddies with Hezbollah and Iran who have the blood of tens of our soldiers on their hands while Turkiye is being ruled by an Islamist government. One may succeed at least in one thing, but we somehow managed to fail in everything.

Now while we should look at the importance to localize our disagreements with Israel to the situation in the sacred lands and expand cooperation with Israel in other regions like Iraq, Syria and the Caucasus, we are alienating even further the same people that bomb the organizations which bombed our bases before and may probably force our exit from Iraq and Syria, destroyed who knows how many weapons shipments that were going to HRE/PKK in Tal Rifat and Hezbollah in the Aleppo province.

While saying this I am not going to even touch upon the historical experience we got in Palestine, the opinion of Palestinians towards Turkiye apart from the bullshit pushed by the successful propaganda machine of the Muslim Brotherhood media and other realities. Cooperation with Israel in Iraq, Syria and the Caucasus is not an option, it is a necessity! Cooperation in the energy field between Israel and Turkiye in the Mediterranean is not an option, but a necessity! I may surprise some people with what I am going to say, but no, Israel will not suddenly cease to exist and we all should deal with this reality. We should support the two State solution, but not put the interests of totally foreign people to Turkiye in every way possible including religion (yes, you heard me right!), culture and language as a priority one before the national interest and security of Turkiye in the region. People should stop talking on repeat about these matters, blinded by Islamist propaganda. Turkiye should come first and whatever comes after is second! This is how this world works.

And before anyone tries to label me Zionist or whatever, no, I am a Muslim, I am proud of it and would never convert to another religion. I feel the pain of the innocent, I have a sensitivity towards the sacred places for our religion like the Al-Aqsa mosque, I would like to see a Palestinian State represented by the best and brightest Palestinian Government possible, so I am confident enough and trust the people who control these places. I am currently not satisfied with neither the Saudis, Israel or any other actor to rule over these places in the way we deserve as Muslims. No, I won't support suicide bombers, executors and butchers, don't feel right for such people to rule over our second most sacred place as a Muslim while in the same time they act as a direct representatives to the same terrorists who martyrs our boys in Iraq, Syria and is threatening my blood brothers without distinction between soldier, elder, women or children in Azerbaijan with annihilation and destruction.

What is happening in the sacred lands right now is no Jihad, it is fight with the participation of two oppressor regimes with the innocents being killed the most by the oppressor with the biggest bombs and/or sharpest mind. Nobody choses where he will be born.
This is no Islamist issue IMO

I believe none in this forum said that Turkey should fight for the Palestinians etc.... In fact, many including me, clearly stated that Turkey should watch both the Palestinians and Israelis burn to hell. The palestinians are reaping what they sow after betraying the Ottomans.... period!

However, what truly baffles me is how ppl still believe that Israel can be a friend! Israel as an entity is violent by nature, and is in a constant fight with its neighbouring countires.

Israel, believes that a major chunk of Eastern Turkey rigthfully belongs to Greater Israel, while have demonstarted clearly on numerous occassions that they woupd never allow a country stronger than it within the region. Israel has been one of the biggest critics for Turkey's participation in the F35 program, has been supporting Greece EEZ claims and PKK Kurdistan even before Erdogan came to power. Just open Youtube and watch older videos on Jewish Zionists talk about how PKK's kurdistan is a crucial step towards greater Israel etc...

Even the recent German-Turkish fiasco regarding the shadow embargo of Nuclear turbines is reported to be pushed forward due to jewish and greek lobbies in Germany......

Shall we rewing time back a bit, during the early 2000s when the Turkish-Israeli relations were at its peak, and remember when Israel used to sell defective drones to Turkey at dohble the price?

Many ppl seem to forget that Israel's foreign policy is based on absolute supremacy and this is directly threatened by Turkey. All the surrounding nations are being armed by the West which Israel controls but now Turkey emerges with its own domestic, high quality, NATO-standard, west independent, cheap weapons and ppl expect Israel to remain silent

Thus, I will say it again and again, the ones who created and supported the PKK for all those years were the US and Israel; the ones who gave Iraq to Iran were the US and Israel. The ones who supported radicalism in Syria (primarily Assad) were the US and Israel

and yet, after all this, ppl believe that this is an Islamist issue and that Turkey and Israel are best friends. Loooooool



 

Lool

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Don't blame the Kurds, they do their part.

Blame our politicians who are so soft to allow them even in our parliament. This is no way to fight terror.
The PKK infiltrated the local kurds forcing them to adopt anti-Turkish agenda

The law permits any party to have representatives in the parliament as long as they have certain number of votes and win certain areas etc...

What the PKK did is weaponising Turkish law against Turkey by brainwashing a decent chunk of the kurdish-origin population living in Turkey

For them to be kicked out, the basic rule of democracy in Turkey will be crushed and a dictatorial regime will eventually surface something that Turkey isnt ready for at all rn
 

Kartal1

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This is no Islamist issue IMO

I believe none in this forum said that Turkey should fight for the Palestinians etc.... In fact, many including me, clearly stated that Turkey should watch both the Palestinians and Israelis burn to hell. The palestinians are reaping what they sow after betraying the Ottomans.... period!

However, what truly baffles me is how ppl still believe that Israel can be a friend! Israel as an entity is violent by nature, and is in a constant fight with its neighbouring countires.

Israel, believes that a major chunk of Eastern Turkey rigthfully belongs to Greater Israel, while have demonstarted clearly on numerous occassions that they woupd never allow a country stronger than it within the region. Israel has been one of the biggest critics for Turkey's participation in the F35 program, has been supporting Greece EEZ claims and PKK Kurdistan even before Erdogan came to power. Just open Youtube and watch older videos on Jewish Zionists talk about how PKK's kurdistan is a crucial step towards greater Israel etc...

Even the recent German-Turkish fiasco regarding the shadow embargo of Nuclear turbines is reported to be pushed forward due to jewish and greek lobbies in Germany......

Shall we rewing time back a bit, during the early 2000s when the Turkish-Israeli relations were at its peak, and remember when Israel used to sell defective drones to Turkey at dohble the price?

Many ppl seem to forget that Israel's foreign policy is based on absolute supremacy and this is directly threatened by Turkey. All the surrounding nations are being armed by the West which Israel controls but now Turkey emerges with its own domestic, high quality, NATO-standard, west independent, cheap weapons and ppl expect Israel to remain silent

Thus, I will say it again and again, the ones who created and supported the PKK for all those years were the US and Israel; the ones who gave Iraq to Iran were the US and Israel. The ones who supported radicalism in Syria (primarily Assad) were the US and Israel

and yet, after all this, ppl believe that this is an Islamist issue and that Turkey and Israel are best friends. Loooooool



No, the PKK is not created by Israel and the US and claiming this serve against you as many people will read this and your whole post will be invalidated while you still made some good points. Israel is not actively supporting PKK out of its rhetoric. Israel supports other Kurdish groups connected to the KDP-I which are tightly connected to the people we also support in Iraq. The KDP-I is concentrating its efforts in Iran. They support both groups connected to the KDP-I and Balochi insurgents active in Iran and Pakistan, not PKK.

As for the US, the reason for their support for PKK is not Israel. It is the independent policies that we implement, the risk involved in th fact that we are no longer trusted "ally" (this means puppet in their language) so they got a chance in Syria and took it. From a strategic perspective they are in the search for a replacement for the center of the Big Middle East Project of which Mr. President Erdogan served as a director for many years. Whatever bad happened to Turkiye happened because of this project in which Diyarbakir was given extreme importance. As you said, we are no more the pawns we used to...

Israel input and cooperation within the fight against PKK and far left organizations (not going to touch upon the cooperation during the hunt for ASALA) in the 90s is unmatched. The country which sent the first field operatives during the hunt for Ocalan in Kenya for exploration activities was Israel.

I may give the counter-thesis about Great Israel by showing you the maps of the Ottoman Empire and say that all Turks support that, the maps of Great Albania, Great Bulgaria, Great Armenia and we can go on forever. Imaginary maps pushed by fanatics are not a factor trough which I am going to judge the international relations between countries. Other than that if we want to compare Erdogan's advisers to Netanyahu's I would say that both of these countries are racing with eachother on who to employ the most ridiculous man for their adviser. We have a pretty good chance in winning when I think about Adnan Tanriverdi... The guy was preparing us to join Mehdi's army and liberate Quds 😅😅😅

On the situation in the Mediterranean, the situation may have been different. I want to remind what would've happened if the Syrian Revolution was successful and what role Turkiye was destined to play in the whole process of exporting Israeli natural resources. The last time we normalized relationships with Israel, the same people that are currently calling for the annihilation of Israel were happy because there was the possibility of cooperation in the Mediterranean. So far there is no such chance with cooperation with Palestine because first of all their position is not as positive towards Turkiye as the Islamists think and second of all such a State will be Iranian pawn, the country that share no maps of Great Iran, but instead gets directly to the action of killing our soldiers both in Iraq and Syria, directly supporting PKK trough training and sophisticated weapons deliveries that costs us millions of dollars already and directly threatens that will "Delete Baku from the face of the earth".

On the situation with the selling of false military equipment I would say that the most capable tank in the Turkish Armed Forces, the only tank in our inventory that manages to take an ATGM to the face, keep the personnel alive and not explode to pieces came to this level after it went trough an Israeli modernization.

Yes, Israel's policy in the region is based on supremacy, but isn't our policy the same in the last 5-10 years?

Israel and Turkiye are neither friends nor enemies and we need eachother to contain bigger threats to both of our interests. I will say it again. We should localize the disagreements regarding Palestine, but continue expanding cooperation in Syria and Iraq.

What's so important in Syria and Iraq one may ask. The importance is that US armed terrorist organization with tens of thousands of fighters will go under Iranian control once again like it happened in Iraq with the PMU and while the US is so kind to give us soft warnings because we are still in NATO, Iran will not hesitate to bomb our bases till oblivion and this is the scenario we should be ready for after the US leaves Syria and unfortunately our capabilities are limited when it comes to containing this threat. This is where cooperation with Israel is important both for them as Iran is an existential threat to Israel and to our interests in the region. If the events that are happening right now happened in 2035 I would say "fuck it, we need nobody", but as I said earlier when I was thinking about this issue, unfortunately we are late to the game because Turkiye was destined to be a puppet, but it happens that suddenly we are no more and to be an independent country has its requirements which we couldn't meet just yet.

As @Sanchez rightly assessed in my opinion, the conjecture is pushing us to reconcile once again at least temporarily. We should leave aside emotions, look at the situation trough analysis based on undisputed facts, determine what we should do and what are our options realistically and realistically we have only one option. I personally am not happy with it, but we play with the cards we got.

I've come to the conclusion that there is no use in shedding tears on past mistakes. If life gives you lemons, you make limonata. If life gives you Israel, you make israelonata or whatever this shiet will be called 🤣🤣🤣
 

Sanchez

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Shall we rewing time back a bit, during the early 2000s when the Turkish-Israeli relations were at its peak, and remember when Israel used to sell defective drones to Turkey at dohble the price?
Heron drones weren’t defective. They needed modification to fit our Aselflir-300s, which were heavier than what they originally used so it hampered performance. Herons still to this day are operated by the air force under the name Gözcü-1.

and no, countries mostly do not have friends. My point stands. Just 20 days before the Oct 7 war, Erdoğan and Bibi met in US and shook hands to improve relations. War changed everything. All your points whether they are true or not were still present then, but it didn’t stop Erdoğan from meeting the guy to improve relations.
 

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HRE/PKK terrorists are making an infiltration attempt in the Harbel-Mare-Tel al-Buheyra axis, and SNA forces are responding.

HRE/PKK terrorists shot a vehicle belonging to the SNA Al Wakkas Brigade with an ATGM, there are injured.


This is the second infiltration attempt in the last two days. Last night we lost two SNA fighters to an HRE infiltration west of Al-Bab. Looks like we see the expected rising of tensions together with the Russian airstrikes and flights over Turkish controlled areas.
 

Lool

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Heron drones weren’t defective. They needed modification to fit our Aselflir-300s, which were heavier than what they originally used so it hampered performance. Herons still to this day are operated by the air force under the name Gözcü-1.

and no, countries mostly do not have friends. My point stands. Just 20 days before the Oct 7 war, Erdoğan and Bibi met in US and shook hands to improve relations. War changed everything. All your points whether they are true or not were still present then, but it didn’t stop Erdoğan from meeting the guy to improve relations.
Can you send your sources for such claims?
Mine came from the mouth of the Turkish minister of defense himself!!

Let me post the script for you👇👇
Turkish Defence Minister Nurettin Canikli has accused Israel of selling Ankara defective drones in a 2005 deal which affecting the country’s campaign against Kurdish militias in Iraq.

Canikli made the statements in an interview with Turkish newspaper Yeni Şafak, referring to ten Heron-model UAVs sold by Israeli Aerospace Industries (IAI) to Turkey as part of a $190 million deal signed in 2005. The deal is already a contentious issue, as Turkey had initially accused Israel of failing to provide spare parts alongside the equipment.

In 2008, Turkey froze the deal in protest of Israel’s bombing campaign in the Gaza Strip. The drones were finally delivered to Ankara in 2010.

“We paid many dollars for them, but we have never been able to effectively make use of them,” Canikli told the paper. “They [Israel] did it on purpose, so that we cannot use them. Israeli engineers sabotaged the intelligence systems of the drone. Afterwards we realized that we bombed rocks and most of the targets were missed.”

IAI released a statement denying the charges, terming them “delusional and deserve no response”.

Here is the source👇

These sources also works as a proof on how long the Israelis have been supporting the kurds against Turkey with blatant disregard to Turkish interests even when the relations were good back in 2005.

Israel, regardless of the narrative they take, will always view Turkey as an enemy! For the Zionists to be happy, they need to feel that they are the supreme power in the region and Turkey (in their eyes) is a pain in the ass towards such an ambition
 
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Tonyukuk

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Can you send your sources for such claims?
Mine came from the mouth of the Turkish minister of defense himself!!

Let me post the script for you👇👇
Turkish Defence Minister Nurettin Canikli has accused Israel of selling Ankara defective drones in a 2005 deal which affecting the country’s campaign against Kurdish militias in Iraq.

Canikli made the statements in an interview with Turkish newspaper Yeni Şafak, referring to ten Heron-model UAVs sold by Israeli Aerospace Industries (IAI) to Turkey as part of a $190 million deal signed in 2005. The deal is already a contentious issue, as Turkey had initially accused Israel of failing to provide spare parts alongside the equipment.

In 2008, Turkey froze the deal in protest of Israel’s bombing campaign in the Gaza Strip. The drones were finally delivered to Ankara in 2010.

“We paid many dollars for them, but we have never been able to effectively make use of them,” Canikli told the paper. “They [Israel] did it on purpose, so that we cannot use them. Israeli engineers sabotaged the intelligence systems of the drone. Afterwards we realized that we bombed rocks and most of the targets were missed.”

IAI released a statement denying the charges, terming them “delusional and deserve no response”.

Here is the source👇

These sources also works as a proof on how long the Israelis have been supporting the kurds against Turkey with blatant disregard to Turkish interests even when the relations were good back in 2005.

Israel, regardless of the narrative they take, will always view Turkey as an enemy! For the Zionists to be happy, they need to feel that they are the supreme power in the region and Turkey (in their eyes) is a pain in the ass towards such an ambition


I think your bias is clouding your judgment.

I can't bring it up now (I'll try to find it), but military officials at the time praised Herons and said that it made it significantly easier to carry out operations against PKK. The "evidence" you've provided is from a defence minister who served in 2017 and is from an Islamist newspaper that's known to spit lies.

Secondly, the most survivable tank in the Turkish inventory is the M60T Sabra, M60s modified by Israel. These have saved Turkish soldiers lives, surviving hits from ATGMs.

There's also this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel–PKK_conflict

Turkey and Israel are much better off cooperating than not. The relationship is only bad because of self sabotaging Islamists who only benefit Iran and Saudi Arabia.
 

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I think your bias is clouding your judgment.

I can't bring it up now (I'll try to find it), but military officials at the time praised Herons and said that it made it significantly easier to carry out operations against PKK. The "evidence" you've provided is from a defence minister who served in 2017 and is from an Islamist newspaper that's known to spit lies.

Secondly, the most survivable tank in the Turkish inventory is the M60T Sabra, M60s modified by Israel. These have saved Turkish soldiers lives, surviving hits from ATGMs.

There's also this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel–PKK_conflict

Turkey and Israel are much better off cooperating than not. The relationship is only bad because of self sabotaging Islamists who only benefit Iran and Saudi Arabia.
The wikipedia link you shared is the same as you saying that Israel and Iran are enemies. Pls tell me when did Israel suffer from Iranian attacks for the last 10 years? After firing thousands of rockets, none hit any sort of criticial infrastructure that caused any damage to israel in the long term. In fact, Turkey suffered from Iran more than what Israel suffered from them without even a single rocket being fired

Ppl need to wake up; Iranian shiite fanatics and the PKK are a US-funded, zionist-backed, project with Israel acting as an enemy to them in a 3rd rate play that is somehow fooling everyone

If you wanna know, ever since the Iranian shiite fanatics took power, the greatest benefitor from those idiots were Israel. It was only thx to them that Israel is able to exert its weight in the middle east. It was only thx to Iran weakening Iraq, Syria, Yemen, and spreading havoc within gulf countries like Bahrain that made the middle east so weak that they only thing they can do to survive is to rely on American blessing which can only be achieved by licking Israel boots

It also baffles me how ppl believe that the Israelis supports Iraqi kurdistan but not the kurdistan that the PKK envisions in Syria amd other Iraqi territories? The plans to break Turkey, Syria, and Iraq were already planned way too early mate. From wikipedia and I quote: "The earliest attested interaction between Israel and Iraqi Kurdistan was in 1931, when the future director of Israel's Mossad, Reuven Shiloah, visited Kurdistan in disguise as a Hebrew teacher and journalist. During his stay, he forged contacts and developed the foundation for an Israeli relationship with the non-Arab communities in the region." Just to let you know that the Mossad spent nearly 61 years from 1931 in order to realise a greater ambition of splitting the region. Why on earth would they work so hard if they wont get anything from it

And Iam sure that all of us know that Iraqi kurdistan were once strong supporters of the PKK before the US announced plans to depose of Barzani and replace him with a more loyal dog



Allow me to end this by sharing a video I shared before about an Ex-IDF soldier who clearly stated that Israel and Kurds are friends

 
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Tonyukuk

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Ppl need to wake up; Iranian shiite fanatics and the PKK are a US-funded, zionist-backed, project with Israel acting as an enemy to them in a 3rd rate play that is somehow fooling everyone


This should be extended to all Islamist entities, no matter where they are, they destroy what they claim to protect.

In fact Mossad supported Islamists within the Palestinian resistance because they knew it would weaken them.


It's a very simple cycle. Back cancerous Islamists > be anti Islamic > Islamists lash out and attack you > retaliate and defeat Islamists > rinse and repeat, effortless after first cycle.

Secularism is the only cure, something that the whole Muslim world needs to learn.
 

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You're sounding like a broken record. repeating the same things.

One of the most important aspects of journalism is to be able to find and deliver proof of claims. And the best way to keep things on the "agenda" is to fan the flames at right times.

Now if you want to prove claims, you need to deliver sources and if possible from multiple news outlets.

You actually need a gigantic news companies that spend time and resources to deliver these news and keep them alive.

You can't do that with government controlled newspapers because their braincells were left to rot from the moment they became a political tool for the ruling governments.

You need independent news company with a doctrin like ideology, and willing to find these "news".
 

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This should be extended to all Islamist entities, no matter where they are, they destroy what they claim to protect.

In fact Mossad supported Islamists within the Palestinian resistance because they knew it would weaken them.


It's a very simple cycle. Back cancerous Islamists > be anti Islamic > Islamists lash out and attack you > retaliate and defeat Islamists > rinse and repeat, effortless after first cycle.

Secularism is the only cure, something that the whole Muslim world needs to learn.
Agreed
All idiotic islamists in the middle east from Palestine, Egypt, Lebanon, and Islamic terror groups in Africa and Asia were were actually brought to power by the US. No questions about that

I also agree that secularism has numerous benefits compared to Islamism but at the same time; I would also question how much does "secularism" has in terms of control over the state

Too much of one thing is never a good thing in a lot of cases
 

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Guys, it's good to discuss these and all, but lets stick to the context of the thread which is revolving around developments in Syria.

Thank you!
 

Saithan

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Well, considering the issues at hand, I think my post was pretty spot on with regards to how bad they are at PR and proactively working towards better PR.

While we're so bad at it. the foreign news companies just need to stick 2-3 people to the task of further undermining and giving us bad PR.
 

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