TR Missile & Smart Munition Programs

[Philip the Arab]

I'd like to see a turret with 30 or 35 mm cannon in the middle and 4 omtas on the sides

That would make it into an IFV, is it an APC or an IFV?

 

[Tornadoss]

That would make it into an IFV, is it an APC or an IFV?

here they are testing itwith 30mm canon, there is even version with 105 mm gun. So, I guess we can call it ifv.

 

[CAN_TR]

Shouldn't be much of a problem to make a Spike NLOS equivalent out of OMTAS, is there any effort for a similar project? Azerbaijan made good experiences with it in Karabakh.

 

[Saithan]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1365218621627248643

Test completed, succesful hit on moving target

 

[Yasar_TR]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1365218621627248643

Test completed, succesful hit on moving target

If we can make this missile go 10-12 km with 8km max altitude, then we have a winner in our hands. Then we do not need RAM systems from US. It will be as good as the RAM block 2.
Honestly I don’t think why we shouldn’t. Because even the RAM missile is a derivative of a stinger missile. We produce stinger in house. We produce CIRIT missile in house.
Logically thinking performance wise, this missile is probably like a RIM116RAM block 2 already ; but not rotating with cold launch, and probably 10km minimum range and 8 km altitude.

 

[Anmdt]

If we can make this missile go 10-12 km with 8km max altitude, then we have a winner in our hands. Then we do not need RAM systems from US. It will be as good as the RAM block 2.
Honestly I don’t think why we shouldn’t. Because even the RAM missile is a derivative of a stinger missile. We produce stinger in house. We produce CIRIT missile in house.
Logically thinking performance wise, this missile is probably like a RIM116RAM block 2 already ; but not rotating with cold launch, and probably 10km minimum range and 8 km altitude.

RAM was built on sidewinder with stinger's IR seeker,later + with RF spectrometers.
RAM has effective range of 10 km with multiple maneuvers specifically designed to counter anti-ship missiles it was later upgraded to engage aerial targets with a software update but i don't think its range was published for that (definitely longer than CIWS variant).

So it can be an interim CIWS solution but not be good as RAM, without a passive RF sensor and inferior maneuverability. Bozdoğan (or Gökdoğan, whichever has the shorter range i am confused about the names) with its higher maneuverability is a better candidate with Sungur's IIR + a new RF.

Sungur itself will make most of the low profile naval assets deadlier. Add a larger booster specifically for naval platforms to increase range further to 16-17 km and that means something.

 

[Gary]

what is the annual production rate of typical Turkish guided munitions ??

 

[dustdevil]

Logically thinking performance wise, this missile is probably like a RIM116RAM block 2 already ; but not rotating with cold launch, and probably 10km minimum range and 8 km altitude.

The latest video at 00:30 shows that the missile is spinning after launch and during main rocket engine start. Not sure if it's for wing deployment for the initial portion flight or for stabilization/guidance purposes for the whole flight, too fast to see in the previous videos for the terminal phase and they don't show the missile during cruise flight.

 

[Blank1]

Bozdoğan (or Gökdoğan, whichever has the shorter range i am confused about the names)

B comes first so Bozdoğan is the shorter range one and G comes later on in alphabetic order so Gökdoğan is longer range one.
That will help ya! or at least helped me to remember.

 

[dustdevil]

Sungur = Don't know if it's the missile or the system
Aksungur = Twin engine UAV
Göksungur = Fast UAV
Gökdoğan = It was initially WVR missile, then changed into BVR missile name. ( a bigger bird than bozdoğan)
Bozdoğan = Reverse of above
Akdoğan = Codename of something unknown by SAGE head
Sungur = Doğan...

 

[Yasar_TR]

RAM was built on sidewinder with stinger's IR seeker,later + with RF spectrometers.
RAM has effective range of 10 km with multiple maneuvers specifically designed to counter anti-ship missiles it was later upgraded to engage aerial targets with a software update but i don't think its range was published for that (definitely longer than CIWS variant).

So it can be an interim CIWS solution but not be good as RAM, without a passive RF sensor and inferior maneuverability. Bozdoğan (or Gökdoğan, whichever has the shorter range i am confused about the names) with its higher maneuverability is a better candidate with Sungur's IIR + a new RF.

Sungur itself will make most of the low profile naval assets deadlier. Add a larger booster specifically for naval platforms to increase range further to 16-17 km and that means something.

Yes you are correct! It was built over sidewinder with stinger seeker components. As it rotates like stinger I got it mixed up.
The supersonic 5-inch RIM-116 RAM Missile was originally developed using existing AIM-9 Sidewinder components along with a STINGER infrared frequency seeker. The RAM Missile utilizes the Sidewinder fuze and solid propellant rocket motor. The guidance section consists of a passive RF Receiver and two RF Antennas along with a STINGER IR Seeker.

 

[Yasar_TR]

The latest video at 00:30 shows that the missile is spinning after launch and during main rocket engine start. Not sure if it's for wing deployment for the initial portion flight or for stabilization/guidance purposes for the whole flight, too fast to see in the previous videos for the terminal phase and they don't show the missile during cruise flight.

If you look carefully it is not spinning during flight. It is cold launched from it‘s canister and as it leaves the canister, it does a rotation until it’s fins open up. That opening of fins motion looks like spinning as the missile stabilises it self. But it is not spinning during flight.

 

[dustdevil]

If you look carefully it is not spinning during flight. It is cold launched from it‘s canister and as it leaves the canister, it does a rotation until it’s fins open up. That opening of fins motion looks like spinning as the missile stabilises it self. But it is not spinning during flight.

Probably it’s not spinning during the flight but I could not found any video footage of the missile detailed enough to confirm. Latest video shows it still spinning after rocket engine start, at this frame near the end of this sequence. Even at low missile speed, slow motion camera and close distance it’s already hard to see the spin. Sun reflections help a bit... could be just rotational inertia.

Probably this is the last spin detected in the sequence around 00:38, but not %100 sure:

 

[Saithan]

Sungur comprises of warhead+canister+rocket part, if a booster is added would that be added as a separate part after the rocket ? Would we need to recalibarate the rocket to ensure better fuel efficiency in the different stages.

A RAM option would surely require fins for adjusting and steering towards the target ?

 

[Combat-Master]

The latest video at 00:30 shows that the missile is spinning after launch and during main rocket engine start. Not sure if it's for wing deployment for the initial portion flight or for stabilization/guidance purposes for the whole flight, too fast to see in the previous videos for the terminal phase and they don't show the missile during cruise flight.

It's not a rolling airframe dude, this has been confirmed by @Defence Turkey

 

[dustdevil]

It's not a rolling airframe dude, this has been confirmed by @Defence Turkey

I read that article, that's why it's interesting to me. Could be wrong or right. Logic says the missile does not need to spin like Stinger due to IIR. Geometry also does not look like spinning is the best option with those surfaces.

Article says they did not see it spinning, yet I don't know what footage they talk about. Either they have different footage from the previous launches showing missile flight in detail which public did not see, have eagle eyes or have some insider information... could be all of them. If the source is not a video, in the article they have 4 photos, 2 of them looks like Porsav/Sungur but it's the same photo, maybe they have other photos?

 

[Combat-Master]

I read that article, that's why it's interesting to me. Could be wrong or right. Logic says the missile does not need to spin like Stinger due to IIR. Geometry also does not look like spinning is the best option with those surfaces.

Article says they did not see it spinning, yet I don't know what footage they talk about. Either they have different footage from the previous launches showing missile flight in detail which public did not see, have eagle eyes or have some insider information... could be all of them.

Perhaps they have bettter footage or they are analysing the footage more in depth - Remember the front fins also deploy

I hope this clears up the Rolling Airframe question - Also Cirit has a rolling airframe, so Turkey has experience with it - incase there's an issue on that point..

 

[Fuzuli NL]

 

[dustdevil]

Perhaps they have bettter footage or they are analysing the footage more in depth - Remember the front fins also deploy


I hope this clears up the Rolling Airframe question

Hey thanks. But there is still a problem for me.

There are multiple cameras. Only the high speed one/or the slowed down footage shows some kind of turn.

Either there is a shutter sync effect with other cameras or the high speed one has some artefact. Could you also convert that camera view like you did with the other two?

 

[Fuzuli NL]