TR Missile & Smart Munition Programs

[TheInsider]

Who produces the two-way data links in turkey ?

Several companies. Aselsan, Metaksan and Tualcom are the first 3 that came to my mind.

Tualcom - Data Link - L Band, S Band & C Band Data Link Systems

TUALCOM datalink product family provides power efficient units utilizing L, S, C bands. Custom solutions can be engineered by offering different modulations, crypto and ECCM functionality.

www.tualcom.com.tr

https://www.aselsan.com.tr/en/capabilities/military-communication-systems

https://www.meteksan.com/en/products/communication-systems

There are others like NETA Communications and Ctech too. There might be more the more i think the more i remember.

 

[TheInsider]

ATMACA needs to be high-supersonic like BRAHMOS, and pack (if possible) thermobaric warhead.

We have another project for it aka supersonic AShM. Atmaca is designed as a subsonic missile and can't be turned into a high supersonic missile unless it is redesigned from the scratch. High supersonic is Mach 4+ BTW and Brahmos is nowhere near that fast.

 

[Abdelaziz]

Several companies. Aselsan, Metaksan and Tualcom are the first 3 that came to my mind.

Tualcom - Data Link - L Band, S Band & C Band Data Link Systems

TUALCOM datalink product family provides power efficient units utilizing L, S, C bands. Custom solutions can be engineered by offering different modulations, crypto and ECCM functionality.

www.tualcom.com.tr

https://www.aselsan.com.tr/en/capabilities/military-communication-systems

https://www.meteksan.com/en/products/communication-systems

There are others like NETA Communications and Ctech too. There might be more the more i think the more i remember.

Are they different from tactical datalinks like kement product of meteksan ?

 

[TheInsider]

Are they different from tactical datalinks like kement product of meteksan ?

No they are not. Certainly, all of those companies can develop their own kement if not already.

Another company that produces datalinks.

Data Links & Messaging and Communication

www.milsoft.com.tr

 

[Cabatli_TR]

ATMACA needs to be high-supersonic like BRAHMOS, and pack (if possible) thermobaric warhead.

Supersonic era will also begin soon.

 

[kenny]

Head of Turkish Intelligence Hakan Fidan mentioned hypersonic missiles in his 2021 report. "Hypersonic missile tests accelerated in 2021, developing cyber technology, competition in space, cyber attacks, new risk areas brought by virtual reality, etc."

 

[Anmdt]

Atmaca family

• Atmaca Rf
• Sub-Atmaca with hybrid seeker tech
• Atmaca-VLS with hybrid seeker tech
• Atmaca-Coast with IIR seeker tech
• Atmaca-Kara Land Attack with IIR seeker tech

Later, we will list the bigger Gezgin and smaller Çakir family like that.

So far i know the Navy is not interested in launching Atmaca via the VLS. It is far an underachiever to occupy a VLS tube.

Either Roketsan is trying to introduce a large, Gezgin league long-range and bigger warhead carrying Atmaca (lets call Atmaca XL) to be VLed, or they are targeting some export customers via a compact VL system.

Navy likes oblique launchers. They have topped frigates and destroyers with 16 missiles (I and TF-2000 can be updated to 32 with minor modifications). Here, sparing a VL cell for Atmaca will require dropping a Gezgin or Siper, or quad-packed Hisar-RF. This alone shows why sparing a cell for Atmaca is useless within Navy's operational plans (also the increase in the complexity of replenishment, oblique launchers replenished far easier).

However could be useful for semi-submersibles, but requires a compact VL system.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Before developing a VLS capable Atmaca, it may be a wiser decision to perfect the submarine launched version to replace the Sub-harpoons we have on U209 submarines and also ready these missiles for the Reis Class to use.
Since a decision was taken earlier, to integrate Atmaca missiles to all naval combatant ships, it is imperative to have these on the submarines ready to use as well.

 

[Brave Janissary]

Before developing a VLS capable Atmaca, it may be a wiser decision to perfect the submarine launched version to replace the Sub-harpoons we have on U209 submarines and also ready these missiles for the Reis Class to use.
Since a decision was taken earlier, to integrate Atmaca missiles to all naval combatant ships, it is imperative to have these on the submarines ready to use as well.

Dual Seekered and sub launched atmaca is in key importance.

Once we are gain that kind of tech that means no one naval port safe in aegeand and mediterranien.

 

[TheInsider]

I expect the VLS version of the Atmaca and sub-Atmaca to be based on the land version. ~900kg launch weight, 500km range, and hybrid seeker. Premium product of the Atmaca family. Affordable deep strike capability compared to much longer ranged but also much more expensive Gezgin.

 

[Quasar]

I expect the VLS version of the Atmaca and sub-Atmaca to be based on the land version. ~900kg launch weight, 500km range, and hybrid seeker. Premium product of the Atmaca family. Affordable deep strike capability compared to much longer ranged but also much more expensive Gezgin.

This would be the most logical and meaningful explanation since wasting a VLS cell for an ASM does not sound like Turkish navy.

Most probably they want a cost effective land attack capability with land ATMACA variant and for land attack capability Imaging Infrared seeker + inertial navigation system+ global positioning + terrain referenced navigation is more than enough and land ATMACA have it all, however hard to say anything about range tough. And almost certainly Hybrid seeker is for standart ATMACA in ASM role.

 

[Heartbang]

I expect the VLS version of the Atmaca and sub-Atmaca to be based on the land version. ~900kg launch weight, 500km range, and hybrid seeker. Premium product of the Atmaca family. Affordable deep strike capability compared to much longer ranged but also much more expensive Gezgin.

if you could at least double pack it in MDAS it would be exceptionally useful. an I-class yeeting 32 Atmacas in a jiffy is a nightmare for the Greeks.

 

[Anmdt]

Most probably they want a cost effective land attack capability with land ATMACA variant and for land attack capability Imaging Infrared seeker + inertial navigation system+ global positioning + terrain referenced navigation is more than enough and land ATMACA have it all, however hard to say anything about range tough. And almost certainly Hybrid seeker is for standart ATMACA in ASM role.

Cost effective LACM -> Cakir
Entry level LACM -> Kara Atmaca
Premium LACM -> VL Gezgin

If you are sparing a VLS cell for a missile, it has to worth it. Or provide a great compactness as in the case of Quadpacking and beyond (ESSM, CAMM, Hisar-RF etc).

If they want to make some difference they may intend to quad-pack Cakir. Otherwise Navy would simply opt for Gezgin with a little more cost.

 

[Quasar]

KARA ATMACA, ATMACA, ÇAKIR with AKYA and ORKA

 

[Yasar_TR]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534626777879957505

According to latest news, we are getting ready to test UCAV launched versions of trg122 and trg230 artillery rockets.
This is great news. This will enable Anka, Aksungur and Akinci to launch ground attack from stand off distances. Although the advanced seeker heads used in these rockets push their cost up, since they are intrinsically and relatively more economical missiles, they can be expended very easily and effectively. Hence effective cost of these rockets will be very affordable.
Next step I hope, will be TRG300 from F16s. One can only hope!

 

[Tornadoss]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534626777879957505

According to latest news, we are getting ready to test UCAV launched versions of trg122 and trg230 artillery rockets.
This is great news. This will enable Anka, Aksungur and Akinci to launch ground attack from stand off distances. Although the advanced seeker heads used in these rockets push their cost up, since they are intrinsically and relatively more economical missiles, they can be expended very easily and effectively. Hence effective cost of these rockets will be very affordable.
Next step I hope, will be TRG300 from F16s. One can only hope!

View attachment 44670

Finally, we are getting somewhere with similar system to Rampage.

 

[Brave Janissary]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534626777879957505

According to latest news, we are getting ready to test UCAV launched versions of trg122 and trg230 artillery rockets.
This is great news. This will enable Anka, Aksungur and Akinci to launch ground attack from stand off distances. Although the advanced seeker heads used in these rockets push their cost up, since they are intrinsically and relatively more economical missiles, they can be expended very easily and effectively. Hence effective cost of these rockets will be very affordable.
Next step I hope, will be TRG300 from F16s. One can only hope!

View attachment 44670

+ Missiles are supersonic.

 

[Yasar_TR]

+ Missiles are supersonic.

Yes Exactly. That will make it very difficult to intercept.
Although theoretically they can be intercepted by modern AD systems, Israelis have made a point of their 300mm f16 launched Rampage missiles being very difficult to intercept. They have used these missiles many times in Syria in spite of the Syrian air defence systems.
quote:
With simple, fire-and-forget operation, this autonomous, stand-off weapon, boasts high-survivability at supersonic speeds. Its focal precision prevents collateral damage at a lower mission cost than other existing solutions.
Unquote.

“It can be detected, but it is very hard to intercept,” Amit Haimovich, director of marketing for IAI’s Malam engineering unit, told The Jerusalem Post.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/reboot/israels-‘rampage’-air-launched-ballistic-missile-even-better-advertised-198833

 

[Agha Sher]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534626777879957505

According to latest news, we are getting ready to test UCAV launched versions of trg122 and trg230 artillery rockets.
This is great news. This will enable Anka, Aksungur and Akinci to launch ground attack from stand off distances. Although the advanced seeker heads used in these rockets push their cost up, since they are intrinsically and relatively more economical missiles, they can be expended very easily and effectively. Hence effective cost of these rockets will be very affordable.
Next step I hope, will be TRG300 from F16s. One can only hope!

View attachment 44670

What is the estimated range of TRG-122 and TRG-230 when launched from the air?

 

[Yasar_TR]

What is the estimated range of TRG-122 and TRG-230 when launched from the air?

Russians exaggerate about ranges. They have a similar but slightly heavier rocket that is launched from air platforms, and they quote near 1200 km ranges.
But Israeli Rampage is estimated to have well over “hundreds of miles” of range. As stated by the above magazine. Hundreds meaning minimum 2-300 miles will give you 320km to 480km minimum range.
TRG122 with it’s 35km range and TRG230 with it’s 70km range when launched from ground will have shorter ranges than a Rampage if launched from air. Our TRG300 range is 120km. So one can do a pro rata range calculation. But it wouldn‘t be very accurate. Nevertheless one would expect 100km for trg122 and 200km for trg230. (But that is for f16 altitude and speed. With slower UCAVs it will be considerably lower).