TR Missile & Smart Munition Programs

[Quasar]

I have a question: Is it true that the Gökdogan has a range of over 100+ km, but that the Radar/Data Link of the F-16 Block 30 to Block 50+ limits the missile to 65+ km because it recognizes the missile as JDAM ammunition through emulation, and this is where the limitation lies?

And that this restriction will only be removed with the Özgür II upgrade?

-Data Link between launching F-16 and missile is only one aspect

-Guess you should take into account the fact that The F-16 and ''other assets'' on for instance the Link 16 network build a tactical picture, identifying targets at extended ranges.

-The F-16 identifies a target and uses the data from the network

-there is no fixed value for the range of data link since data links operates within the line-of-sight of the aircraft

-Therefore Altitude, Terrain and Atmosphere are also effecting factors

-More importantly, dont want to speculate about Gökdoğan and its future but it is a known fact that certain BVR missile variants can receive data updates from other platforms besides the launching aircraft.... to provide extended range targeting. Therefore, theoretically there is Still a chance for using full potantial of Gökdoğan regardless of F 16 blocks (highly speculative statement)

-Yet not just ÖZGÜR but national data link and Network-Centric Warfare architecture are vital

 

[Huelague]

More importantly, dont want to speculate about Gökdoğan and its future but it is a known fact that certain BVR missiles can receive data updates from other platforms besides the launching aircraft...

Best example was the shoot down of a Russian Jet by our F-16.

 

[Sanchez]

Best example was the shoot down of a Russian Jet by our F-16.

That's debatable, C5 and C7 models don't have two way datalinks. That's just a poorly supported claim.

 

[Quasar]

Best example was the shoot down of a Russian Jet by our F-16.

1-two-way data link allows a third-party platform, such as another aircraft or AWACS, to provide mid-course updates to the missile i.e sharing target data directly with the missile.

2- a third-party platform, such as another aircraft or AWACS provides target data and mid-course updates to the launching aircraft and then launching aircraft itself provides that mid-course updates to the missile through the data link between launching aircraft and missile.

so ours is the scenario number 2, yet still a speculation but since we have Peace Eagles most defintly we should be using them

 

[Quasar]

@Yasar_TR what is pulse-Doppler radars Doppler shift issue which may cause problems with tracking targets moving perpendicularly? sure have little idea but if possible need to hear it from you as well .....thanks

was just reading an article about SU 24 case in Syria

 

[Yasar_TR]

@Yasar_TR what is pulse-Doppler radars Doppler shift issue which may cause problems with tracking targets moving perpendicularly? sure have little idea but if possible need to hear it from you as well .....thanks

was just reading an article about SU 24 case in Syria

I am no radar expert. My radar knowledge is somewhat rudimentary. An expert on radars may explain it better. Somebody here had mentioned @Nutuk ?? Also @TheInsider seems to be well versed on radars.
What I know is that almost all radars work with Pulse-Doppler Shifting.
Radars send a pulse to target and measure the time it comes back in. This is a vital measurement.
But if the transmitter sending it is moving or the target receiving it is moving, then the waves coming back can be compressed or their wavelengths can be longer depending on the target coming closer or farther.
Also if the target has a close background that reflects signals back then it becomes difficult to read the position of the target. But through relative velocity of the signals, their position can be differentiated by Doppler Shifting techniques.
By measuring the Doppler rate, the radar becomes able to measure the relative velocity of all objects‘ returning echoes – whether planes, vehicles, or ground features - . Doppler filtering can be used to discriminate between objects moving at different relative velocities.

But if a target is moving perpendicularly, Doppler Shifting doesn’t work as the motion is tangential to wave motion. This gives zero value of Doppler Shift. It may appear as static clutter.
To overcome this the radars use certain techniques that can overcome the non existent signal of perpendicularly moving targets. A parallel processing channel radar and linear frequency modulated radar can detect zero Doppler Shift targets. How they work is beyond me. Like I said above an expert on radars should answer this.

 

[mTT]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1970408846729384125

 

[Sanchez]

Siper 1-D(N) launch from MIDLAS.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1971915580325212271

 

[Pokemonte13]

Siper 1-D(N) launch from MIDLAS.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1971915580325212271

Why blur the launcher

 

[Sanchez]

Why blur the launcher

Security is good.

 

[Oublious]

Hisar-D will not be quad packed, this is a huge failure. 16 vls with HISAR-D or 8 Siper and 8 Hisar?

 

[Oublious]

Or they should make Bozdogan naval version.

 

[Pokemonte13]

Hisar-D will not be quad packed, this is a huge failure. 16 vls with HISAR-D or 8 Siper and 8 Hisar?

Nothing new here roketsan said they’re developing a new missile for that GM-1 may use similar components but that’s just a feeling

ROKETSAN's MİDLAS VLS Being Prepared for Different Needs | TURDEF

During Euronaval 2024, ROKETSAN Launcher Systems Manager Mustafa Özdemir talked about versions of MİDLAS VLS being developed for different needs.

turdef.com

 

[Pokemonte13]

My guess would be that hisar d is going to be the cheapest medium range option for ad would make sense for adkg and for tf2000. I doubt navy would be satisfied with single pack hisar d

 

[zio]

Hisar D can not be a long term missile because its slow around 2 mach,thats why quad pack unnecessary.İts difficult to respond multiple anti ship missiles and also there is a trend for süpersonic even hypersonic missiles.Roketsan is on the right way in terms of Midlas to adapt for siper and atmaca missiles,so you can make two seperate 16 cell midlas on istif class total 32 cell, this gives more flexible mission profiles,and means you can fire multiple missles more quickly.

 

[Oublious]

Hisar D can not be a long term missile because its slow around 2 mach,thats why quad pack unnecessary.İts difficult to respond multiple anti ship missiles and also there is a trend for süpersonic even hypersonic missiles.Roketsan is on the right way in terms of Midlas to adapt for siper and atmaca missiles,so you can make two seperate 16 cell midlas on istif class total 32 cell, this gives more flexible mission profiles,and means you can fire multiple missles more quickly.

Wher do you want to put another vls on the ship?

 

[Yasar_TR]

Hisar D can not be a long term missile because its slow around 2 mach,thats why quad pack unnecessary.İts difficult to respond multiple anti ship missiles and also there is a trend for süpersonic even hypersonic missiles.Roketsan is on the right way in terms of Midlas to adapt for siper and atmaca missiles,so you can make two seperate 16 cell midlas on istif class total 32 cell, this gives more flexible mission profiles,and means you can fire multiple missles more quickly.

What source do you have regarding Hisar class missiles’ speeds?

This is a closely guarded secret, and never been openly discussed. When they were being developed it was mentioned that they were 3+ Mach missiles. (See below article.)
Some article somewhere may have mentioned 2mach speed and it stuck. Nothing concrete ever been declared about their speeds.
These are missiles with dual pulse motors. Similarly powered missiles reach speeds in excess of 3.5 Mach and more. In fact some like sky-ceptor may reach 5.5 Mach.

Turkey Is Breaking New Ground with the Hisar-D RF Air Defense Missile

During a recent test, a Hisar-D RF intercepted a UAV simulating an enemy attack, proving end-to-end functionality from detection to destruction.

nationalinterest.org

 

[Afif]

What source do you have regarding Hisar class missiles’ speeds?

This is a closely guarded secret, and never been openly discussed. When they were being developed it was mentioned that they were 3+ Mach missiles. (See below article.)

There were Roeketsan data sheets from a recent expo showing HISAR A+ having a speed of Mach 2.5 and HISAR O+ having a speed of Mach 3.5. I imagine HISAR O RF will have similar speed to that of HISAR O+.

In fact some like sea-ceptor may reach 5.5 Mach.

Very much doubtfull. Any source for that?

 

[Huelague]

Hisar D can not be a long term missile because its slow around 2 mach

Never ever.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Very much doubtfull. Any source for that?

My bad. Should have read the post again . It is a mistake.

Skyceptor missile produced by Raytheon not seaceptor

https://www.deagel.com/Weapons/Stunner/a000918

Can you share that data sheet please?
Because none of the Roketsan paperwork states any speed related to these missiles. Technically the dual pulse engines should give much higher speeds than a dual thrust version. Especially in terminal phase where it matters.