TR Missile & Smart Munition Programs

[Philip the Arab]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1385286312320720896

Slow-Mo.

It is a good concept for special forces and infantry.

 

[Combat-Master]

Troy Teknoloji Savunma developing 40mm Micro Rocket for Mini Drones

In the video and images of it, seems to me like a multi-mode warhead with armour penetration and anti-personnel
View attachment 18861 View attachment 18862

Launched from a drone

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1385279444991070209

 

[Philip the Arab]

Launched from a drone

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1385279444991070209

Do you need propellant? Wouldn't a glide weapon suffice?

 

[Combat-Master]

Do you need propellant? Wouldn't a glide weapon suffice?

Glide/free fall munition would require a drone to be at higher altitudes, which may not be suitable for smaller drones.
However, such capabilities already exist with SAGE Togan and larger drones

 

[Philip the Arab]

I just noticed Sage Togan, did it not go into production? I mention this because it is quite similar to a UAE concept but have not heard of it before at all.

 

[dustdevil]

MAM-T and Miniature Bomb (Turkish SDB) approximate scales (edit: added MAM-L too)
Miniature bomb: 1.8m length, 17cm diameter, 100km range from F-16, 139kg, penetration of hard targets, wing span ~1.5 meters based on photos
MAM-T: 1.4m length, 23cm diameter, 80km range from F-16, 94kg, wing span ~0.8-1.0 meters based on photos

 

[Cypro]

Launched from a drone

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1385279444991070209

I imagine this also on under Hurkus C, mass bombing PKK guys.. Anti-personnel bomber.. Also think about dropping smaller drones from Akıncı or even from a Transport Plane equipped with these bombs searching PKK dogs in the Kandil, you can control them from a mothership. With an AI that searches for human beings (holding a gun) autonomously.. That is how skynet will born

 

[Test7]

 

[Cabatli_TR]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1385645559516651524

 

[Alpagu]

AKINCI ARMED UAV and MAM-T: RUSSIAN PANTSIR
The response to the target of the Bayraktar TB2 armed UAV for the Russian kamikaze was the Pantsir Air Defense System
AKINCI armed UAV and MAM-T ammunition gave the message that it could hit Pantsir stronger and from a distance

 

[dustdevil]

Warning: speculation and guesstimates again....


MAM-T range is 30km from UAV, 60 km from light jet and 80 km from a fighter. Does not make sense to me, is it the speed?
MAM-L was 15km+ from (if) 18000 ft from TB2. If TB2 flew at 30.000 ft, it would be around 25+ kms.

So if Akıncı released MAM-L at 30.000 ft it would hit 25+ km too, if the range increases proportionally with altitude. MAM-T with the wings and better glide ratio should reach much better ranges. So I assume that 30 km limit is very conservative and comes from the laser designation limit.

MAM-L (18000ft to 15km, 5486 m to 15 km, glide ratio 2.73:1)

MAM-T glide ratios (if 30.000 ft to 30km, 9144:30000= 3.28, if 30.000ft to 60km , 60000:9144= 6.56)
MAM-T 80 km from fighter aircraft, assuming 40.000ft -> 80000:12192=6.56 again. Nice coincidence, during baseless estimations we found a magic number by chance...
Miniature bomb glide ratio is (100km from 40.000ft by F-16 = 100000:12192,= 8.2)

By reverse calculation MAM-T can reach 30km from 15000 ft.

------------------------------------

TLDR: If not a concidence the ranges for manned aircraft types of launchers were based on altitudes. MAM-T glide ratio is 6.56:1, Miniature Bomb glide ratio is 8.2:1, MAM-L glide ratio is 2.73:1. 30 km range for MAM-T is either for low flying UAV like TB2 or the limit of the illuminator.

The magic number is caused by the proportion of some estimates, it could be another pair of number's proportion... But Miniature Bomb altitude is 40.000 ft on the brochure: https://www.aselsan.com.tr/Miniature_Bomb_8826.pdf

So using this 40.000ft for the longest range of 80km looks reasonable. I don't know why there would be a distinction between fighter and light attack aircraft as supersonic separation of MAM-T with this wing is questionable..

The glide ratio is proportional to lift/drag ratios. MAM-L with 160 mm diameter small wings is 2.73:1, MAM-T with 230 mm diameter (more drag) with a bigger wing (much more lift and some drag) is 6.56:1, it is 2.4 times improvement but worse than miniature bomb (8.2:1) which has better aerodynamics...

 

[Philip the Arab]

TLDR: MAM-T glide ratio is 1:6.56, Miniature Bomb glide ratio is 1:8.2, MAM-L glide ratio is 1:2.73. 30 km range for MAM-T is either for low flying UAV like TB2 or the limit of illuminator.

Designation is the big limiter here bottlenecking the full use of standoff missiles which is why in my opinion TV/EO/IIR guided missiles are the best solution which will allow an Akinci to guide weapons much further with pinpoint accuracy not limited by GPS denied environments, or laser designation limitations.

 

[Zafer]

Warning: speculation and guesstimates again....


MAM-T range is 30km from UAV, 60 km from light jet and 80 km from a fighter. Does not make sense to me, is it the speed?
MAM-L was 15km (confirmed from footage of longest shot ) from (if) 18000 ft from TB2. If TB2 flew at 30.000 ft, it would be around 25 kms.

So if Akıncı released MAM-L at 30.000 ft it would hit 25 km too, if the range increases proportionally with altitude. MAM-T with the wings and better glide ratio should reach much better ranges. So I assume that 30 km limit is very conservative and comes from the laser designation limit.

MAM-L (18000ft to 15km, 5486 m to 15 km, glide ratio 2.73:1)

MAM-T glide ratios (if 30.000 ft to 30km, 9144:30000= 3.28, if 30.000ft to 60km , 60000:9144= 6.56)
MAM-T 80 km from fighter aircraft, assuming 40.000ft -> 80000:12192=6.56 again. Nice coincidence, during baseless estimations we found a magic number by chance...
Miniature bomb glide ratio is (100km from 40.000ft by F-16 = 00000:12192,= 8.2)

By reverse calculation MAM-T can reach 30km from 15000 ft.

------------------------------------

TLDR: If not a concidence the ranges for three types of launchers were based on altitudes. MAM-T glide ratio is 6.56:1, Miniature Bomb glide ratio is 8.2:1, MAM-L glide ratio is 2.73:1. 30 km range for MAM-T is either for low flying UAV like TB2 or the limit of the illuminator.

The magic number is caused by the proportion some estimates, it could be another numbers proportion (like 30.000 ft to 15.000 ft)... But Miniature Bomb altitude is 40.000 ft on the brochure. So using this 40.000ft for the longest range of 80km looks reasonable. I don't know why there would be a distinction between fighter and light attack aircraft as supersonic separation of MAM-T with this wing is questionable..

The glide ratio is proportional to lift/drag ratios. MAM-L with 160 mm diameter small wings is 2.73:1, MAM-T with 230 mm with a bigger wing is 6.56:1, it is 2.4 times improvement but worse than miniature bomb (8.2:1) which has better aerodynamics...

You need to factor in the plane speed.

 

[dustdevil]

You need to factor in the plane speed.

Yes, but how much...

Light jet 60km vs Fighter jet 80km?

F-5 vs Harrier?

See, does not make sense....

 

[Zafer]

Yes, but how much...

Light jet 60km vs Fighter jet 80km?

F-5 vs Harrier?

See, does not make sense....

Akıncı < Hürjet < F16
360 < 1592 < 1960 (?)
20 81 100

relative speeds; but we don't know how much the speed is reflected in the range.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Akıncı < Hürjet < F16
360 < 1592 < 1960 (?)
20 81 100

relative speeds; but we don't know how much the speed is reflected in the range.

Speed will definitely have role in range. But can winged ammo be released at supersonic speeds?
If memory serves right, Israelis were able to release their rampage missiles only at 0.85-0.90 Mach. And not any higher. Rampage is, our trg300’s Israeli version. MAM-T has wings. Ok at 40000ft , air will be thinner. But there must be a limit.

 

[dustdevil]

Akıncı < Hürjet < F16
360 < 1592 < 1960 (?)
20 81 100

relative speeds; but we don't know how much the speed is reflected in the range.

Yes, too much unknowns...

For example, SDB range is for more than 50 nautical miles (92.6km) at 40.000 ft at Mach 0.95.

ACC declares small diameter bomb initially operational

The Air Combat Command commander declared initial operational capability for the Guided Bomb Unit-39/B Small Diameter Bomb Oct. 2 and the weapon made its combat debut just three days later. Gen.

www.af.mil

I don't think MAM-T is better than SDB aerodynamically, but it should not be too bad either. So 80 km for MAM-T would be "too bad" if F-16 maximum speed of Mach 2.0 is used to calculate the range. I assume similar high subsonic speed would be used, "+" meaning if higher or faster the range will be more.

A light attack aircraft like Hürjet can also reach that number...

Maybe by light attack aircraft, they mean Hürkuş-C, tried to calculate stuff but did not make sense to me.... we will see..

As I wrote before, the 30 km range sounds too conservative for those wings while MAM-L can do 15 km from around 18000 ft (this altitude is a guess).

 

[dustdevil]

Original from: http://www.ausairpower.net/TE-GPS-Guided-Weps.html

60km 30.000 ft is a guess.
Miniature bomb did not fit, so use the extended line...
Note the general shapes of the munitions.
AGM-130 is interesting, it looks like a brick, but rocket powered version of GBU-15 and performs like JSOW...
Laçin datalink on any of our long range munitions would be nice for bad weather targeting and damage/target assessment...

 

[Zafer]

Speed will definitely have role in range. But can winged ammo be released at supersonic speeds?
If memory serves right, Israelis were able to release their rampage missiles only at 0.85-0.90 Mach. And not any higher. Rampage is, our trg300’s Israeli version. MAM-T has wings. Ok at 40000ft , air will be thinner. But there must be a limit.

Yes, of course, these figures are top speeds for comparison and you can not just drop a winged ammo at high speeds, but I can if there is anything called delayed wing deployment that is.

 

[Combat-Master]

@Turan Oguz Analysis of Bozdogan AAM