India Missiles and Guided Munitions

Lonewolf

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Pretty comprehensive look at the roles surrounding the two ships (INS Dhruv & INS Anvesh), which together comprise the DRDO Floating Test Range.

Thanks to Other Forum-PK aka GODOFPARADOXES on Twitter.

View attachment 30856

In addition, the INS Dhruv can independently work as a telemetry ship for non-BMD related tests (such as SLBMs).
Looks like ddg are taking shape .

Oss is a new hull with 10000ton plus displacement .

Can be useful for ddg ,also sls with vl form can be our uvls , radar is already tested , coastal surveillance radar are already ready for vlo target , secondary radar , satcom etc are required to complete electronic components , weapons will be vlastra , barak 8 , xrsam , brahmos , lrlacm , hstdv variant , ad 1 ,ad 2 , a booster variant of vlastra is possible to cater 10-60 km .
 

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India to conduct first user trial of Agni-V missile​

While single-warhead missiles are generally launched against one target, the MIRVed missiles can dispense warheads against multiple targets.

BHUBANESWAR: India is set to conduct the first user trial of nuke capable intercontinental-range ballistic missile (ICBM) Agni-V signalling its early induction in the armed forces. Elaborate preparation has started at a defence facility off Odisha coast for the mission by the Strategic Forces Command of Indian Army. As per the schedule learnt by TNIE, the 5,000-km range missile is likely to be flight-tested on September 23.

Initially planned to be inducted in 2020 after the hat-trick pre-induction trials in 2018, the process was reportedly delayed due to Covid-19 pandemic that affected some important tests of the missile with multiple independently targetable reentry vehicles (MIRV). The mission has been planned close on the heels of the successful trial of Agni Prime missile, the first of the new class of Agni series of missiles, developed by DRDO. The three-stage solid-fuelled weapon with advanced guidance and new generation propulsion was fired with multiple independently targetable reentry warheads on June 28.

Defence sources said the next trial of Agni-V missile assumes significance as it may be equipped with the MIRV capable of carrying multiple warheads. Though the MIRV capability of the missile was secretly tested during a multi-satellite launch, no live launch has been conducted so far. “For the first time, the indigenous MIRV technology was tested successfully in Agni P missile with the weapon delivering two manoeuvrable warheads at two separate locations. The MIRV capability of Agni-V will give India the much needed deterrence,” said the sources.

While single-warhead missiles are generally launched against one target, the MIRVed missiles can dispense warheads against multiple targets. The technology will minimise the requirement of a number of missiles providing an edge in battle preparedness.A senior defence official said the induction process of the most potent game changer Agni-V has begun and the successful user trial would pave the way for its serial production. The canisterised missile is equipped with a ring laser gyroscope based inertial navigation system and micro inertial navigation system.

Developed by DRDO, the missile is capable of hitting targets in all Asian countries and parts of Africa and Europe. With a wiring of around seven-km, the 17-metre long, 2-metre wide, three-stage, solid-fuelled missile can carry a payload of 1.5 tonne and weighs around 50 tonne. India is the eighth country to have intercontinental ballistic missiles after the US, UK, Russia, China, France, Israel and North Korea.
 

Nilgiri

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Wasn't the rumored ICBM called Surya?

Placeholder name when they hadn't quite figured out how Agni would evolve program wise.

It is subsumed now under Agni 6.

Honestly Agni 6 is low priority....as we do not really need that land-component w.r.t resource allocation....given Agni 5 covers pretty much we need already from land.

Far better for India to allocate and produce more in SLBM domain and MIRV those....and make the SSBNs as survivable as possible.

Saving money from Agni 6 and deploying there instead would be more optimal approach IMO.
 

Gessler

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Placeholder name when they hadn't quite figured out how Agni would evolve program wise.

It is subsumed now under Agni 6.

Honestly Agni 6 is low priority....as we do not really need that land-component w.r.t resource allocation....given Agni 5 covers pretty much we need already from land.

Far better for India to allocate and produce more in SLBM domain and MIRV those....and make the SSBNs as survivable as possible.

Saving money from Agni 6 and deploying there instead would be more optimal approach IMO.

Agni-6 is basically "Agni-5 Perfected".

Yes, A5 covers our currently required range envelope, but only with unitary warheads. Even this supposed MIRV test* is likely to only allow reduced-range.

We need A6 if we want to throw any kind of decent MIRV payload (like 6 x 500kg) over that same 5,000-km range. Against a country with an intent for established BMD capabilities + established intent for countervalue/counterforce arsenal like China, only a MIRVed missile (for both land & sea launch) is likely to provide true deterrence.

* I'll only believe it when I see it, not the first time media has been wrong about MIRV...though now is as good a time as any to begin the process of testing the MIRV bus (nevermind the reduced range) considering the range ship INS Dhruv is now fully operational.
 

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Agni-6 is basically "Agni-5 Perfected".

Yes, A5 covers our currently required range envelope, but only with unitary warheads. Even this supposed MIRV test* is likely to only allow reduced-range.

We need A6 if we want to throw any kind of decent MIRV payload (like 6 x 500kg) over that same 5,000-km range. Against a country with an intent for established BMD capabilities + established intent for countervalue/counterforce arsenal like China, only a MIRVed missile (for both land & sea launch) is likely to provide true deterrence.

* I'll only believe it when I see it, not the first time media has been wrong about MIRV...though now is as good a time as any to begin the process of testing the MIRV bus (nevermind the reduced range) considering the range ship INS Dhruv is now fully operational.

I partially agree and normally (if India was a higher tier nuclear power) I would fully agree with you.

But India is a warhead deficit and (relative) missile surplus country.

It has to make each warhead as survivable as possible....and nothing beats an SSBN for that.

I'm not saying scrap A-6 or something, but it should come 2nd to getting MIRV SLBM (given India is also SSBN deficit)....given the warhead numbers and what the survivability is for above water assets/facilities regarding them (ceterus paribus w.r.t opponents).

It is after that priority is addressed, further expanding MIRV capacity for land based missiles should be accomplished to have best chance to defeat any extensive BMD opponents may have.

As much of the triad should be underwater mobile as possible IMO for maximum deterrence given its apex survivability.

Now I am of course assuming everything "race circuit wise" is starting at same time (for sake of argument).

But in reality, if say A-6 is 90% done and needs 10% more for the finish.....and say the reverse for SLBM MIRV....of course it makes lot more sense to finish A-6 first and have it in hand.

This is probably much closer to the present situation in India...if one compares the current K-4 energy, #stages and volume envelope with its peers in other navies...to consider what might be timeline for K-5 and K-6 (MIRV I believe) and also considering the timeline for the SSBNs themselves.
 

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I partially agree and normally (if India was a higher tier nuclear power) I would fully agree with you.

But India is a warhead deficit and (relative) missile surplus country.

It has to make each warhead as survivable as possible....and nothing beats an SSBN for that.

I'm not saying scrap A-6 or something, but it should come 2nd to getting MIRV SLBM (given India is also SSBN deficit)....given the warhead numbers and what the survivability is for above water assets/facilities regarding them (ceterus paribus w.r.t opponents).

It is after that priority is addressed, further expanding MIRV capacity for land based missiles should be accomplished to have best chance to defeat any extensive BMD opponents may have.

As much of the triad should be underwater mobile as possible IMO for maximum deterrence given its apex survivability.

Now I am of course assuming everything "race circuit wise" is starting at same time (for sake of argument).

But in reality, if say A-6 is 90% done and needs 10% more for the finish.....and say the reverse for SLBM MIRV....of course it makes lot more sense to finish A-6 first and have it in hand.

This is probably much closer to the present situation in India...if one compares the current K-4 energy, #stages and volume envelope with its peers in other navies...to consider what might be timeline for K-5 and K-6 (MIRV I believe) and also considering the timeline for the SSBNs themselves.

True - SSBN/SLBMs should receive priority.

However, the enrichment activities in India have seen a massive expansion post-2013. Think about it, we need approx 200 new warheads just for the S-5 class.

There is no way this program is going ahead until & unless there has been an increase in production of both WG-U & WG-Pu.
 

Lonewolf

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Don't know where to Post but good news guys .

@Gautam @Nilgiri @Zapper @Gessler


Time to strap it on lch and induct them .

Soon the htse 1200 under testing will be installed (5yr later at least ). So that we will have a powerful engine and armament can be upgraded
 

Lonewolf

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True - SSBN/SLBMs should receive priority.

However, the enrichment activities in India have seen a massive expansion post-2013. Think about it, we need approx 200 new warheads just for the S-5 class.

There is no way this program is going ahead until & unless there has been an increase in production of both WG-U & WG-Pu.
I think we already have agni 6 or whatever you call it in advanced phase .


It isn't surya etc anything that's all rumors .

It's a missile with 3 ton payload for 5500 km with composite stage and mirv capabilities and most probably it is k 5 itself . K4 is a state of art missile in it's class , you can compare it to best in range vs weight , that's why agni 1p is a beast .

Our future ground based fleet would be

Prahar /pranash Upto 400 km ,
Pralay Upto 700 km
Shaurya and follow on 700-1500 km
Agni 1 p 2000 km
K5 based missile 5000-8000 km
Agni 3p for 2000-5000 km (if exist) otherwise K4 variant

Rest all including agni 5 are going to be like good ol'boys , above ones will be our tungsten arrows .

Sea based is K5 and K4 , sagarika is for intermittent role .
 

Nilgiri

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Don't know where to Post but good news guys .

@Gautam @Nilgiri @Zapper @Gessler


Time to strap it on lch and induct them .

Soon the htse 1200 under testing will be installed (5yr later at least ). So that we will have a powerful engine and armament can be upgraded

Any general missile/guided munition (like anti tank etc) goes in general missile thread (or you can just make a new thread on it if you want simple and it gets archived later).

Dedicated separate threads for now so far are: cruise, ballistic, scramjet I believe.
 

Lonewolf

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Thanks mate
Any general missile/guided munition (like anti tank etc) goes in general missile thread (or you can just make a new thread on it if you want simple and it gets archived later).

Dedicated separate threads for now so far are: cruise, ballistic, scramjet I believe.
 

Gessler

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Looks like ddg are taking shape .

Oss is a new hull with 10000ton plus displacement .

Can be useful for ddg

Not really. We built several hulls of 10k ton or above before this for a multitude of purposes (military or civilian).

DDG hull will be very different, plus it has to accommodate an entirely different propulsion setup (2 GT+2 DG or 4 GT, with 2 shafts as opposed to the OSS which has only 2 DG & only 1 shaft).
 

Lonewolf

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Not really. We built several hulls of 10k ton or above before this for a multitude of purposes (military or civilian).

DDG hull will be very different, plus it has to accommodate an entirely different propulsion setup (2 GT+2 DG or 4 GT, with 2 shafts as opposed to the OSS which has only 2 DG & only 1 shaft).
.I don't think It will have shaft ,but a iep will be there , reason ??

Look at lpd/lhd tender
 

Gessler

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.I don't think It will have shaft ,but a iep will be there , reason ??

Look at lpd/lhd tender

🤦‍♂️

Dude, an IEP will replace the conventional mechanical gearbox, it doesn't replace the shaft.

Without the shaft how will the power be transmitted from the engines all the way to the back of the ship where the propellers are?

This is the propulsion setup of the Zumwalt, currently the most advanced warship in the world (with IEP of course). See the shafts?

zumwalt shafts.JPG
 

Lonewolf

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🤦‍♂️

Dude, an IEP will replace the conventional mechanical gearbox, it doesn't replace the shaft.

Without the shaft how will the power be transmitted from the engines all the way to the back of the ship where the propellers are?

This is the propulsion setup of the Zumwalt, currently the most advanced warship in the world (with IEP of course). See the shafts?

View attachment 31596
What about a big electric motor at back , and connected with wires at front to move electricity
 

Gessler

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I mean the configuration used in submarine , the remove shaft direct contact by adding motor in some new gen submarine

Wrong thread to discuss this.

Direct contact doesn't happen here either. But there are a dozen other considerations as to where best to place the gearbox/IEP.
 

Nilgiri

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What about a big electric motor at back , and connected with wires at front to move electricity

If you size this motor, you will find the problem. Have to take into account where you want to place the heaviest stuff found on ship in the free body moment diagram.

You can get away with it somewhat more on a submarine, as the whole thing submerges and you can size/place the ballast tanks to compensate (somewhat) if there is benefit to placing something big and chunky extremely on one end (and you move around other heavy stuff as well to mitigate)

....but a surface ship only has the planar sea (which it is only partially submerged in) for reaction force. So keeping heavy things as near as possible the centroid is best (for best ship layout design envelope and also turning and response needs). Less heavy things (sensors, payloads, basic structure etc) are better for extremities.

This gets a lot worse in aviation discipline as you can imagine, where there is no steady reaction force provider other than the lift (only) generated by the motion itself.
 

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