Live Conflict Pakistan-India Conflict (2025)

Nilgiri

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Three terrorists involved in the Pahalgam terror attack have been neutralized

https://www.indiatoday.in/india/sto...foreign-terrorists-sources-2762404-2025-07-28Pahalgam terrorists killed in Srinagar encounter - India Today

I saw some of the preliminary (gore) footage and info regarding how they finally got tracked down (supposedly involving the re-activation of one of their "ultra" sat phone sets, that this time Indian forces were prepared for).

More information will be released soon officially. Stay tuned.
 

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How Pakistan shot down India's cutting-edge fighter using Chinese gear

By Saeed Shah and Shivam Patel

  • Intel failure on range of China-made PL-15 missile central to downing of India's Rafale jet-sources
  • Shootdown of Rafale had raised questions about effectiveness of Western hardware against Chinese alternatives
  • Pakistan claims successful electronic warfare assault though India disputes scale
  • Outcome of the battle ignites interest from other countries in purchasing Chinese fighter jets
ISLAMABAD/NEW DELHI, August 2 (Reuters) - Just after midnight on May 7, the screen in the Pakistan Air Force's operations room lit up in red with the positions of dozens of active enemy planes across the border in India.
Air Chief Mshl. Zaheer Sidhu had been sleeping on a mattress just off that room for days in anticipation of an Indian assault.

New Delhi had blamed Islamabad for backing militants who carried out an attack the previous month in Indian Kashmir, which killed 26 civilians. Despite Islamabad denying any involvement, India had vowed a response, which came in the early hours of May 7 with air strikes on Pakistan.

Sidhu ordered Pakistan's prized Chinese-made J-10C jets to scramble. A senior Pakistani Air Force (PAF) official, who was present in the operations room, said Sidhu instructed his staff to target Rafales, a French-made fighter that is the jewel of India's fleet and had never been downed in battle.
"He wanted Rafales," said the official.
The hour-long fight, which took place in darkness, involved some 110 aircraft, experts estimate, making it the world's largest air battle in decades.

The J-10s shot down at least one Rafale, Reuters reported in May, citing U.S. officials. Its downing surprised many in the military community and raised questions about the effectiveness of Western military hardware against untested Chinese alternatives.
Shares of Dassault (AM.PA), opens new tab, which makes the Rafale, dipped after reports the fighter had been shot down. Indonesia, which has outstanding Rafale orders, has said it is now considering purchasing J-10s – a major boost to China’s efforts to sell the aircraft overseas.

But Reuters interviews with two Indian officials and three of their Pakistani counterparts found that the performance of the Rafale wasn't the key problem: Central to its downing was an Indian intelligence failure concerning the range of the China-made PL-15 missile fired by the J-10 fighter. China and Pakistan are the only countries to operate both J-10s, known as Vigorous Dragons, and PL-15s.

The faulty intelligence gave the Rafale pilots a false sense of confidence they were out of Pakistani firing distance, which they believed was only around 150 km, the Indian officials said, referring to the widely cited range of PL-15's export variant.

"We ambushed them," the PAF official said, adding that Islamabad conducted an electronic warfare assault on Delhi's systems in an attempt to confuse Indian pilots. Indian officials dispute the effectiveness of those efforts.
"The Indians were not expecting to be shot at," said Justin Bronk, air warfare expert at London's Royal United Services Institute (RUSI) think-tank. "And the PL-15 is clearly very capable at long range."

The PL-15 that hit the Rafale was fired from around 200km (124.27 mi) away, according to Pakistani officials, and even farther according to Indian officials. That would make it among the longest-range air-to-air strikes recorded.

India's defense and foreign ministries did not return requests for comment about the intelligence mistakes. Delhi hasn't acknowledged a Rafale being shot down, but France's air chief told reporters in June that he had seen evidence of the loss of that fighter and two other aircraft flown by India, including a Russian-made Sukhoi. A top Dassault executive also told French lawmakers that month that India had lost a Rafale in operations, though he didn't have specific details.
Pakistan's military referred to past comments by a spokesperson who said that its professional preparedness and resolve was more important than the weaponry it had deployed. China's defense ministry did not respond to Reuters' questions. Dassault and UAC, the manufacturer of the Sukhoi, also did not return requests for comment.

"SITUATIONAL AWARENESS"​

Reuters spoke to eight Pakistani and two Indian officials to piece together an account of the aerial battle, which marked the start of four days of fighting between the two nuclear-armed neighbors that caused alarm in Washington. The officials all spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss national security matters.
Not only did Islamabad have the element of surprise with its missiles' range, the Pakistani and Indian officials said, but it managed to more efficiently connect its military hardware to surveillance on the ground and in the air, providing it with a clearer picture of the battlefield. Such networks, known as "kill chains," have become a crucial element of modern warfare.
Four Pakistani officials said they created a "kill chain," or a multi-domain operation, by linking air, land and space sensors. The network included a Pakistani-developed system, Data Link 17, which connected Chinese military hardware with other equipment, including a Swedish-made surveillance plane, two Pakistani officials said.
The system allowed the J-10s flying closer to India to obtain radar feeds from the surveillance plane cruising further away, meaning the Chinese-made fighters could turn their radars off and fly undetected, according to experts. Pakistan's military did not respond to requests for comment on this point.
Delhi is trying to set up a similar network, the Indian officials said, adding that their process was more complicated because the country sourced aircraft from a wide range of exporters.
Retired U.K. Air Mshl. Greg Bagwell, now a fellow at RUSI, said the episode didn’t conclusively prove the superiority of either Chinese or Western air assets but it showed the importance of having the right information and using it.
“The winner in this was the side that had the best situational awareness,” said Bagwell.



Read more articles the link.


@Sanchez @TR_123456 @TheInsider incredible if true that PL15 was fired from 200km away and still managed to bring down something as sophisticated as Rafale.
 

Nilgiri

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After the May 7 air battle, India began targeting Pakistani military infrastructure and asserting its strength in the skies. Its Indian-made BrahMos supersonic cruise missile repeatedly sliced through Pakistan's air defenses, according to officials on both sides.

On May 10, India said it struck at least nine air bases and radar sites in Pakistan. It also hit a surveillance plane parked in a hangar in southern Pakistan, according to Indian and Pakistani officials. A ceasefire was agreed later that day, after U.S. officials held talks with both sides.

So basically a ton of blah blah trolling on this got undercut too. That BDA disparity stands.
 

Afif

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So basically a ton of blah blah trolling on this got undercut too. That BDA disparity stands.

It does, may 10th events aren't up for debate as we have imagery as evidence. Though what happened on May 7th is still relatively more dubious. The number of aircrafts shot down by PAF and the nature of engagement. More and more info coming out on this whether accurate or not. Plus, areal battle has lots of tech warfare and operational complexity involved into it. That's why I am more interested in this aspect of the overall conflict.

Not sure, what are you referring to by 'trolling' here. The article is detailing what they could gathered from various sources. Some info may or may not be accurate but Reuters is generally credible in maintaining neutrality.
 

Nilgiri

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It does, may 10th events aren't up for debate as we have imagery as evidence. Though what happened on May 7th is still relatively more dubious. The number of aircrafts shot down by PAF and the nature of engagement. More and more info coming out on this whether accurate or not. Plus, areal battle has lots of tech warfare and operational complexity involved into it. That's why I am more interested in this aspect of the overall conflict.

Not sure, what are you referring to by 'trolling' here. The article is detailing what they could gathered from various sources. Some info may or may not be accurate but Reuters is generally credible in maintaining neutrality.

I mean in various "hyper online + bot fuelled" echo chamber reactions (selective be-all end-all narrratives and doubling down).

Put aside Tom Cooper, basic BDA output by Damien Symon attracted dumb trolling that he's Indian agent etc etc....simply because of the BDA disparity that has borne out in reality.

That's the kind of echochamber trolling that gets undercut (at least to neutrals) by this relatively neutral analysis by Reuters (quoting officials from both sides and taking a middle road overall). There is also equivalent jingoism that happens in Indian echochambers that pooh pooh PAF and make the drone + Brahmos stuff as be all end all.

Even ISPR was blabbing that Indian "BM launches" (though India didn't use BM's conventionally to begin with) were landing on own Indian cities in Punjab etc....ridiculous stuff like that. So it set the stage for the further puerile jingoism...in Indian case it was Indian media that fuelled lot of it compared to DGMO from what I saw, DGMO didnt make this level of absurd claims like ISPR, past the other claims that also have no BDA proof to back it sticking out like sore thumb now permanently.
 

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