TR Propulsion Systems

[Merzifonlu]

IMO, most important announcement here was that work is underway on the "TS-3000," which will deliver 3,000 hp or perhaps more. This means that, with the exception of the first 10 helicopters, we will not be purchasing any other engines for the T-925 from foreign countries.

 

[Shtr]

Is there any other need than TS-3000 for helicopters. He implicitly says like there are more projects apart from TS-3000.

 

[Sanchez]

Is there any other need than TS-3000 for helicopters. He implicitly says like there are more projects apart from TS-3000.

If they feel like it, a detuned TS1400 for lighter helicopters like AW119 at 900-1000bhp range could be interesting like the PT6B. Margins there are razor thin but much bigger market.

 

[mTT]

General Manager Prof. Dr. Mahmut Faruk Akşit:

The first prototypes produced are naturally expensive. The cost of the first TF6000 engine is $5 million.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1969308035907489794

 

[Samba]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1969308035907489794

How much a tf6000 level engine cost when and if you can buy it?

5mil sounds a steal to me

 

[Zafer]

How much a tf6000 level engine cost when and if you can buy it?

5mil sounds a stealth to me

$2 million

 

[Yasar_TR]

How much a tf6000 level engine cost when and if you can buy it?

5mil sounds a steal to me

Bro, it all depends on where it is being developed, and how much foreign input has been used.
According to unconfirmed estimates an engine like TF6000 should cost best part of 2 billion dollars when developed in Western countries. Having said that; According to again, unconfirmed estimates, India has already spent 400-500 million dollars on their Kaveri turbofan. So costbase plays a big part.

If you check that GE&RR partnership spent on F136 engine over 3billion dollars and needed more than another billion to finish it when they stopped development (With today’s money that would have been over 7billion dollars).

Now, if we are talking about buying an engine like TF6000 that is a different story.
Take Honeywell F124 non AB engine with similar thrust level; This engine in 2005 could have been purchased for 2.5 million. (That is 4.2 million dollars with today’s money)
Yet Israel bought 30 of these with very specific details and custom produced to their own specifications at an individual price of 24.5 million dollars in 2012.
TF6000 is going to be a more advanced engine than F124. So according to order quantity and the customer’s “needs” the price will vary.

Honeywell Secures Major Engine Contract From Israel Ministry of Defense

/PRNewswire/ -- Honeywell (NYSE:HON), as part of the International Turbine Engine Company LLC, has signed a contract to supply its F124-GA-200 turbofan engines...

www.prnewswire.com

Also cost price and sale price will be very different.
Even in a cost price, if you include development costs in individual engines, you will get a different price against if you don’t include.

EDIT:

P&W‘s latest price to Pentagon for F135 engines was 20.4 million a piece.
But remember that there are going to be over 3000 of these planes needing many replacements too.

New F-35 Engine Contract Puts Fighter’s Price Around $100 Million

The Pentagon and Pratt & Whitney have reached a $2.88 billion deal on new F-35 engines, putting the price per jet at around $100 million.

www.airandspaceforces.com

 

[Samba]

Bro, it all depends on where it is being developed, and how much foreign input has been used.
According to unconfirmed estimates an engine like TF6000 should cost best part of 2 billion dollars when developed in Western countries. Having said that; According to again, unconfirmed estimates, India has already spent 400-500 million dollars on their Kaveri turbofan. So costbase plays a big part.

If you check that GE&RR partnership spent on F136 engine over 3billion dollars and needed more than another billion to finish it when they stopped development (With today’s money that would have been over 7billion dollars).

Now, if we are talking about buying an engine like TF6000 that is a different story.
Take Honeywell F124 non AB engine with similar thrust level; This engine in 2005 could have been purchased for 2.5 million. (That is 4.2 million dollars with today’s money)
Yet Israel bought 30 of these with very specific details and custom produced to their own specifications at an individual price of 24.5 million dollars in 2012.
TF6000 is going to be a more advanced engine than F124. So according to order quantity and the customer’s “needs” the price will vary.

Honeywell Secures Major Engine Contract From Israel Ministry of Defense

/PRNewswire/ -- Honeywell (NYSE:HON), as part of the International Turbine Engine Company LLC, has signed a contract to supply its F124-GA-200 turbofan engines...

www.prnewswire.com

Also cost price and sale price will be very different.
Even in a cost price, if you include development costs in individual engines, you will get a different price against if you don’t include.

EDIT:

P&W‘s latest price to Pentagon for F135 engines was 20.4 million a piece.
But remember that there are going to be over 3000 of these planes needing many replacements too.

New F-35 Engine Contract Puts Fighter’s Price Around $100 Million

The Pentagon and Pratt & Whitney have reached a $2.88 billion deal on new F-35 engines, putting the price per jet at around $100 million.

www.airandspaceforces.com

All numbers you have given still make me think that 5 mil of production cost of the first unit is steal/bargain/cheap.

 

[Yasar_TR]

All numbers you have given still make me think that 5 mil of production cost of the first unit is steal/bargain/cheap.

There is no way that first engine cost TEI 5million dollars. The amount of engineer-hours spent on computers to design it in virtual world then the time and effort of tens if not hundreds of technicians is not cheap. Just look at how long TR-Motor has been designing and developing the KAAN motor and with how many engineers.
No matter how cheap your labour and cost base is, there is no way it can be that cheap.

Yes the actual physical building cost of the prototype may have been 5million dollars. They have to individually manufacture each part , sometimes with additive technologies, instead of mass produce them in casts and dies/presses. It is a slow costly, almost production under laboratory conditions. That is what it must be. Not the actual development cost of the engine.

 

[Samba]

There is no way that first engine cost TEI 5million dollars. The amount of engineer-hours spent on computers to design it in virtual world then the time and effort of tens if not hundreds of technicians is not cheap. Just look at how long TR-Motor has been designing and developing the KAAN motor and with how many engineers.
No matter how cheap your labour and cost base is, there is no way it can be that cheap.

Yes the actual physical building cost of the prototype may have been 5million dollars. They have to individually manufacture each part , sometimes with additive technologies, instead of mass produce them in casts and dies/presses. It is a slow costly, almost production under laboratory conditions. That is what it must be. Not the actual development cost of the engine.

I know that very well. The amount of money spent may be over 100mil just for production of a test unit. This is mandatory, acceptable, expected.

What i mean is the production cost for such a sample unit is still fine.

 

[mTT]

TEI-PD200 Turbodiesel Aviation Engine​

TEI - TEI-PD200 Turbodiesel Aviation Engine

www.tei.com.tr

 

[Zafer]

Baykar takes the max power as 195 hp as was written on their Teknofest stand TB3 poster.
1200hr overhaul and 162kg weight are fantastic numbers for such a powerful aviation diesel engine.

It is a good time to be an aviation entrepreneur as pretty much everything you need is already out there.

 

[Oublious]

We are now at a level that we can make from core materials to a engine, from Turkish mines. This is first time mentioned.

 

[begturan]

There are also studies on titanium technology used in body production, I think the desired level will be reached in the 2030/35s.

Ongoing projects

Project / Institution	Stage	Description
ETI Maden – Titanium Dioxide Development Project	R&D / Pilot	Works on extracting TiO₂ from ilmenite ores found in Kütahya and Balıkesir regions.
TR-Minerals (Energy Ministry + MTA)	Planning	A mid-term (2030 target) plan to establish domestic titanium metal production.
TÜBİTAK MAM – Titanium Powder Metallurgy Project	Pilot	Produces titanium powder for aircraft engine parts using laser melting and additive manufacturing.
Sakarya / OSTİM – Titanium Alloy Forging Line Project	Feasibility	Joint initiative by TUSAŞ and private sector to build a high-temperature forging line for titanium.

Türkiye’s Current Titanium Capability

Area	Status	Notes
Ore reserves	Available	Not yet exploited
Titanium oxide production	Pilot phase	ETI Maden and MTA involved
Titanium sponge	Not available	Planned by 2030
Titanium powder (3D printing)	Pilot production	TÜBİTAK and TUSAŞ projects
Machining & forging	Advanced	Aerospace-certified, uses imported materials
Aircraft parts production	Ongoing	Used in F-35, A400M, TFX, Kızılelma, Gökhan programs

Türkiye currently cannot produce aerospace-grade titanium, but it can machine and process imported titanium alloys domestically. The country aims to achieve titanium sponge production by 2030, and full domestic alloy production for aircraft fuselages probablu by 2030/35. This would enable future Turkish aircraft programs such as the National Combat Aircraft (TF-X) and Kızılelma UCAV to use entirely locally produced titanium.

Since Türkiye had stockpiled enough titanium for its current programs, I think 5/10 years ago, the current projects will not be negatively affected by the embargoes.

 

[Zafer]

There are also studies on titanium technology used in body production, I think the desired level will be reached in the 2030/35s.

Ongoing projects

Project / Institution	Stage	Description
ETI Maden – Titanium Dioxide Development Project	R&D / Pilot	Works on extracting TiO₂ from ilmenite ores found in Kütahya and Balıkesir regions.
TR-Minerals (Energy Ministry + MTA)	Planning	A mid-term (2030 target) plan to establish domestic titanium metal production.
TÜBİTAK MAM – Titanium Powder Metallurgy Project	Pilot	Produces titanium powder for aircraft engine parts using laser melting and additive manufacturing.
Sakarya / OSTİM – Titanium Alloy Forging Line Project	Feasibility	Joint initiative by TUSAŞ and private sector to build a high-temperature forging line for titanium.

Türkiye’s Current Titanium Capability

Area	Status	Notes
Ore reserves	Available	Not yet exploited
Titanium oxide production	Pilot phase	ETI Maden and MTA involved
Titanium sponge	Not available	Planned by 2030
Titanium powder (3D printing)	Pilot production	TÜBİTAK and TUSAŞ projects
Machining & forging	Advanced	Aerospace-certified, uses imported materials
Aircraft parts production	Ongoing	Used in F-35, A400M, TFX, Kızılelma, Gökhan programs

Türkiye currently cannot produce aerospace-grade titanium, but it can machine and process imported titanium alloys domestically. The country aims to achieve titanium sponge production by 2030, and full domestic alloy production for aircraft fuselages probablu by 2030/35. This would enable future Turkish aircraft programs such as the National Combat Aircraft (TF-X) and Kızılelma UCAV to use entirely locally produced titanium.

Since Türkiye had stockpiled enough titanium for its current programs, I think 5/10 years ago, the current projects will not be negatively affected by the embargoes.

I have been looking for this information since yesterday, thanks for sharing.
Türkiye has a respectable 90 million tons of titanium reserves while world reserves are at 1.23 billion tons.

https://turkbor.com.tr/titanyum-tozu/

 

[AzeriTank]

There are also studies on titanium technology used in body production, I think the desired level will be reached in the 2030/35s.

Ongoing projects

Project / Institution	Stage	Description
ETI Maden – Titanium Dioxide Development Project	R&D / Pilot	Works on extracting TiO₂ from ilmenite ores found in Kütahya and Balıkesir regions.
TR-Minerals (Energy Ministry + MTA)	Planning	A mid-term (2030 target) plan to establish domestic titanium metal production.
TÜBİTAK MAM – Titanium Powder Metallurgy Project	Pilot	Produces titanium powder for aircraft engine parts using laser melting and additive manufacturing.
Sakarya / OSTİM – Titanium Alloy Forging Line Project	Feasibility	Joint initiative by TUSAŞ and private sector to build a high-temperature forging line for titanium.

Türkiye’s Current Titanium Capability

Area	Status	Notes
Ore reserves	Available	Not yet exploited
Titanium oxide production	Pilot phase	ETI Maden and MTA involved
Titanium sponge	Not available	Planned by 2030
Titanium powder (3D printing)	Pilot production	TÜBİTAK and TUSAŞ projects
Machining & forging	Advanced	Aerospace-certified, uses imported materials
Aircraft parts production	Ongoing	Used in F-35, A400M, TFX, Kızılelma, Gökhan programs

Türkiye currently cannot produce aerospace-grade titanium, but it can machine and process imported titanium alloys domestically. The country aims to achieve titanium sponge production by 2030, and full domestic alloy production for aircraft fuselages probablu by 2030/35. This would enable future Turkish aircraft programs such as the National Combat Aircraft (TF-X) and Kızılelma UCAV to use entirely locally produced titanium.

Since Türkiye had stockpiled enough titanium for its current programs, I think 5/10 years ago, the current projects will not be negatively affected by the embargoes.

any idea which countries able to produce Titanium? i know that Russia is one of them

 

[TR_123456]

any idea which countries able to produce Titanium? i know that Russia is one of them

China is nr 1 i believe.

 

[Zafer]

Titanium miners 2024

 

[Zafer]

Isn't this unbelievable!

"To put the importance of titanium to the defense sector in context, consider the F-22 air superiority fighter. Generally considered the best fighter in the world, it uses more titanium than any other US Air Force aircraft, over 9,000 lb, or approximately 42% by weight."

 

[AzeriTank]

Titanium miners 2024
View attachment 77893

this is the mine deposits to make it probably, but its not like an iron, you need to have high tech to process and make it. obviously madacascar or Senegal not able to make it