Defence Q&A S-400 or F-35 for Turkey ? |Debate and Discussion

what

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Another embarassing and probably futile step by Hulusi Akar in Hürriyet. He proposed a Cyprus-Crete S300 kind of scenario to solve the S400 issue. The government fucked up so bad, they are now offering putting the 2bln € system somewhere else, in another place to get rid of the sanctions and access to F35.

 

mulj

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America alone may not survive the century
But dont ever forget that there are countries that depend on The USA as one of the largest markets in the world
Countries like Japan, France, and even China wont just sit down and watch USA collapse. The USA has the mighty dollar and profits from the USA is worth gold after all


Though at the end I do agree that they will fall, no doubt about that. Many countries are already forsaking the dollar and are beginning to trade with their respective currencies just like in the old days
It is not questionable at all that in next couple of decades they will further crumble, what is the issue how and in which way will that happen. Will they hang on firmly on dominance and further drain their credibility and resources or will they go in some form of isolationism as they did in past. Either way they are screwed and what is the biggest irony it is because of their technological achievements, those pimped up ride of their "enemies" and on the other hand created internal society conditions to be dealt in constant turmoil which does not leave to much space for influence exports.
 

BordoEnes

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İ DİSAGREE WITH U
FİRTS F-35 İS NOT COMBAT PROVEN & TOO EXPENSİVE ALSO ALL THE DATABASE İN THE USA SO THEY CAN LOCK UR F-35 THEY LAGGİNG SENDİNG SPARE PARTS ON PURPOSE
SECOND USA-ISRAEL DOESNT WANT ANY COUNTRY TO HAVE STRONG AİR FORCE THAN U.S.A' S 52 STATE ISRAEL
THİRD. MAİN İSSUE İS WİTH TÜRKİYE&U.S.A NOT F-35 or S-400 THE İSSUE İS SO CALLED OUR NATO ALLY U.S.A TRYİNG TO CREATE TERRORİST STATE pkk/ypg/sdf by supporting them RİGHT İN OUR BORDER TO DESTABİLİSE THE REAGİON BUT WHAT COMES AROUND GOES AROUND THATS THE BİGGEST İSSUE İTS SHOWS HOW TWO FACE U.S.A is
U.S WİLL FUCK OFF AS İT DİD İN AFGHANİSTAN & WE LL BE ALONE WİTH THEM
ALSO THANKS FOR SANCTİONS COZ WE MAKE OUR OWN NATİVE WEAPONS
STUFF U SEE İN MEDİA İTS JST %10 OF WHAT WE SHOW İN MEDİA
ALSO WE SAW HOW USELESS PATRİOT ADS &SAM-T ADS WHEN HOUTHİES DESTROY ARAMCO
WE GOT 3000+KM BALİSTİC MİSSİLES
ANOTHER STUPİD EXUCUSE U.S SAYS RUSSİANS WİLL COPY F-35 WHAT A JOKE ISRAEL USE THEM İN SYRİA THEY GOT THER S-300 S-400 PLUS POLAND FLİES NEAR RUSSİA BORDER
OUR S-400 READY TO FİRE İF ANY BRAİNLESS PEOPLE THİNK TO ATTACK US İT LL BE THEİR END

WE WANTED ADS FROM US WHİCH İS RUBBİSH SYSTEM THEY DDNT GİVE US
WHY WLDNT U SELL TO UR NATO ALLY ? İT MEANS U.S.A HAS İNTENTİON TO BOMB US
İF THEY DO THAT MİSTAKE İT LL BE THEİR DİSASTER
capslock.jpeg
 

the

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America is the one that won't survive this century. After Trump and Biden there's disaster after disaster and the people are extremely divided. The situation is ripe for a civil war. That whole country is a powder keg. All it takes is someone to light the match.

I am not a pro-Russia guy but with Karabakh issue over with: The biggest problem between Turkey and Russia is gone. This is a great victory for all involved. I believe in Syria and Ukraine, cooler heads could prevail and we could come to an arrangemenet. While I don't see them as a friend, we don't have to see them as an enemy either.
What are you talking about?

1. Syria - you could argue that the syrian regime is a puppet to Russia and Iran. + Russian Naval base in Tartus and Khmeimim air base. Denying Turkey's influence in the East Med.
2. Iraq - a somewhat marriage of convenience between Iran and Russia
3. Karabakh - you really think that Russia is going to pack its bags and leave in the next 4 years....... Armenia will insist on Russian forces for security.
4. Central Asia / Turkic Nations - Denying Turkish influence in central Asia.
5. Supporting the LNA in Libya

I don't think any problems between Turkey and Russia have been solved.
 

Anastasius

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America is the one that won't survive this century. After Trump and Biden there's disaster after disaster and the people are extremely divided. The situation is ripe for a civil war. That whole country is a powder keg. All it takes is someone to light the match.

I am not a pro-Russia guy but with Karabakh issue over with: The biggest problem between Turkey and Russia is gone. This is a great victory for all involved. I believe in Syria and Ukraine, cooler heads could prevail and we could come to an arrangemenet. While I don't see them as a friend, we don't have to see them as an enemy either.
Dude, as someone who actually lives in the US and interacts with Americans on a regular basis - it's not even close. America has had way worse crises in its history. Saying the country is doomed is like looking at Turkey during the second-half of the 20th century and saying that the Ataturk experiment is on its last legs because of all the crazy stuff going down every other day.

You are also incredibly mistaken if you think a) the Karabakh issue is finished, b) that Turkey trying to muscle in on Russia's domain didn't actually bring up even MORE points of conflict between the two and c) that Karabakh was ever one of the big points of contention between Turkey and Russia. Turkey barely gave a f**k about Karabakh until like 5 years ago and Russia's interest is to keep us and Armenians in perpetual conflict.
 

Anastasius

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We can take pain as we did in the many decades past but will our counterparts take the pain of bickering with Turkey. That is less likely.

Short-sighted, what are you talking about?
So you think millions of Turks dying to save the country from the brink of destruction AGAIN is some noble endeavor?

Being able to take the pain does not mean one has to actively seek out the pain.

Enough with this veneration of suffering as some unique Turkish trait.

Short-sighted means reacting emotionally to everything that occurs. Biden's administration went back to YPG support after Trump ditched it? OMG drop America immediately, Russia that openly bombs Turkish soldiers on a regular basis is my best friend now!
 
M

Manomed

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The only ruins we have is historical places that we keep for tourists.

I have been to university already but you need to grow up.

So you think millions of Turks dying to save the country from the brink of destruction AGAIN is some noble endeavor?

Being able to take the pain does not mean one has to actively seek out the pain.

Enough with this veneration of suffering as some unique Turkish trait.

Short-sighted means reacting emotionally to everything that occurs. Biden's administration went back to YPG support after Trump ditched it? OMG drop America immediately, Russia that openly bombs Turkish soldiers on a regular basis is my best friend now!
According to him we should go to war with everyone
 

Lool

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So you think millions of Turks dying to save the country from the brink of destruction AGAIN is some noble endeavor?
Not really. It depends on why is the country being destroyed! Invasion, civil war, independence from the mainland. The reason trully matters for it to be called a national endeavour.
But just so that you know, the west particularly France and USA were really butter up to this date for not colonising Turkey. Dont forget that they already had a massive plan to divide Turkey into 4 different states each with its purpose. If sacrifice were to prevent such scenarios then Yes it is a noble endeavour
Being able to take the pain does not mean one has to actively seek out the pain.
Agreed
Short-sighted means reacting emotionally to everything that occurs. Biden's administration went back to YPG support after Trump ditched it? OMG drop America immediately, Russia that openly bombs Turkish soldiers on a regular basis is my best friend
With all due respect, when did Trump ditch the PKK? Never! Trump retreated from the Turkish border because Erdo said that he is entering Syria whether he likes it or not and already gave a warning to all so-called "allied" US-troops before the operation. Trump saved his soldiers and that is it. The PKK were only pissed at Trump because he destroyed the 50 years of hardwork by the PKK to build the tunnels, and roads into Turkey. Pre the turkish operation, the PKK used to enter the long turkish border freely for the last 50 years to the point that they even used to bomb God damn Istanbul!
They want independence and it is not possible to give them so! They will resort to hard force then Turkey must nip them out one by one
 

Lool

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According to him we should go to war with everyone
If everyone wants to destroy Turkey then why not just fight with everyone. However, a smart person picks the time and place to fight and that is it.
Fight them all but individually or ally with their enemies
Try to put them in checkmate
Just like how Turkey plays with the US and Russia. Both wants Turkey gone but none wants the other party to be the winner
 
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LegionnairE

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What are you talking about?

1. Syria - you could argue that the syrian regime is a puppet to Russia and Iran. + Russian Naval base in Tartus and Khmeimim air base. Denying Turkey's influence in the East Med.
2. Iraq - a somewhat marriage of convenience between Iran and Russia
3. Karabakh - you really think that Russia is going to pack its bags and leave in the next 4 years....... Armenia will insist on Russian forces for security.
4. Central Asia / Turkic Nations - Denying Turkish influence in central Asia.
5. Supporting the LNA in Libya

I don't think any problems between Turkey and Russia have been solved.
1. Syrian regime certainly got weakened but any notion that Assad will go away anytime soon is wishful thinking. There isn't public support for a war against Assad and never will be so there's no other logical choice than to shake hands with him.

2. Iraq was an independent nation before Americans got involved and now they are closer to Iran than ever.

3. Doesn't matter. We got what we wanted in Karabakh. If the war resumed today, it would be even more one-sided. Woe to the vanquished.

4. and 5. are minor issues, not even close to US supporting PKK, YPG and others against Turkey.

USA is a much bigger existential threat. Because a strong and united Turkey is seen as an obstacle against greater Israel.
They want to break up Turkey into smaller more managable pieces.

After Trump, who was the most pro-Israel president in history, Biden's cabinet is entirely made up of jews.
We can see what's happening. We're not stupid.
 

Lool

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1. Syrian regime certainly got weakened but any notion that Assad will go away anytime soon is wishful thinking. There isn't public support for a war against Assad and never will be so there's no other logical choice than to shake hands with him.

2. Iraq was an independent nation before Americans got involved and now they are closer to Iran than ever.

3. Doesn't matter. We got what we wanted in Karabakh. If the war resumed today, it would be even more one-sided. Woe to the vanquished.

4. and 5. are minor issues, not even close to US supporting PKK, YPG and others against Turkey.

USA is a much bigger existential threat. Because a strong and united Turkey is seen as an obstacle against greater Israel.
They want to break up Turkey into smaller more managable pieces.

After Trump, who was the most pro-Israel president in history, Biden's cabinet is entirely made up of jews.
We can see what's happening. We're not stupid.
True 100%
 

TheInsider

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1. Syrian regime certainly got weakened but any notion that Assad will go away anytime soon is wishful thinking. There isn't public support for a war against Assad and never will be so there's no other logical choice than to shake hands with him.

2. Iraq was an independent nation before Americans got involved and now they are closer to Iran than ever.

3. Doesn't matter. We got what we wanted in Karabakh. If the war resumed today, it would be even more one-sided. Woe to the vanquished.

4. and 5. are minor issues, not even close to US supporting PKK, YPG and others against Turkey.

USA is a much bigger existential threat. Because a strong and united Turkey is seen as an obstacle against greater Israel.
They want to break up Turkey into smaller more managable pieces.

After Trump, who was the most pro-Israel president in history, Biden's cabinet is entirely made up of jews.
We can see what's happening. We're not stupid.
The US will be extremely friendly to TR by the end of this decade or the US might commit self suicide against China by turning Turkiye into an enemy and making NATO null and void.
 

Lool

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The US will be extremely friendly to TR by the end of this decade or the US might commit self suicide against China by turning Turkiye into an enemy and making NATO null and void.
Not really
It will mainly depend on the turkish administration! The administration is what will determine whether Turkey will shift towards the USA or not
What the US likes is a country that is completely dependent on it, follows orders, doesnt give it many headaches, doesnt follow independent policies, and aids it in its ambitions. It is something like Greece. Greece is truly the role model of what a country should be by the US standards
 

TheInsider

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Türkiye controls the endpoint of the Silk Road and also is a candidate to control the eastern Mediterranean where one of the important sea routes of one belt one road initiative passes. FYI Chinese bought one of the biggest ports in Greece, Pireus port. Türkiye also has considerable power and influence in the Indian Ocean, Africa, Pakistan, and Southeast Asia.
image.png
 

Anastasius

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I don't know what is going through your brain. Can you explain when and where such a thing happening.
You keep talking about how it doesn't matter how Turkey conducts itself in foreign policy, it can fight its way out of any quagmire. My point was that any time Turkey or any nation really, tried this, it resulted in massive loss of life to rectify a problem that shouldn't have existed to begin with.

Not really. It depends on why is the country being destroyed! Invasion, civil war, independence from the mainland. The reason trully matters for it to be called a national endeavour.
But just so that you know, the west particularly France and USA were really butter up to this date for not colonising Turkey. Dont forget that they already had a massive plan to divide Turkey into 4 different states each with its purpose. If sacrifice were to prevent such scenarios then Yes it is a noble endeavour

Agreed

With all due respect, when did Trump ditch the PKK? Never! Trump retreated from the Turkish border because Erdo said that he is entering Syria whether he likes it or not and already gave a warning to all so-called "allied" US-troops before the operation. Trump saved his soldiers and that is it. The PKK were only pissed at Trump because he destroyed the 50 years of hardwork by the PKK to build the tunnels, and roads into Turkey. Pre the turkish operation, the PKK used to enter the long turkish border freely for the last 50 years to the point that they even used to bomb God damn Istanbul!
They want independence and it is not possible to give them so! They will resort to hard force then Turkey must nip them out one by one
1) You really overestimate the extent to which the West cares about a failed endeavor from 100 years ago. It was important to Greeks and Armenians, not to the British and the French, who cared so little that they started pulling out as soon as Turkish nationalists scored a few victories. Hell, Istanbul was retaken pretty much without a fight because the British didn't really care about it all that much.

This goes double for the US, which had zero personal interest in what happened in Turkey and didn't care if it was ruled by Greeks, Turks or fish-people from Atlantis. In terms of oil and gas, the Entente forces already got everything they wanted - Turkey had virtually zero oil or valuable natural resources, all of that was in the lower Middle-East.

2) Trump agreed earlier to US withdrawal and it was part of his "leaving Syria" plan. Erdogan wouldn't have done s**t if the US refused to budge, he was merely reminding Trump of the agreement, which was getting blocked at every chance by traitorous elements within the administration. The mainstream media here went into a goddamn frenzy over "Trump abandoning the Kurds".

1. Syrian regime certainly got weakened but any notion that Assad will go away anytime soon is wishful thinking. There isn't public support for a war against Assad and never will be so there's no other logical choice than to shake hands with him.

2. Iraq was an independent nation before Americans got involved and now they are closer to Iran than ever.

3. Doesn't matter. We got what we wanted in Karabakh. If the war resumed today, it would be even more one-sided. Woe to the vanquished.

4. and 5. are minor issues, not even close to US supporting PKK, YPG and others against Turkey.

USA is a much bigger existential threat. Because a strong and united Turkey is seen as an obstacle against greater Israel.
They want to break up Turkey into smaller more managable pieces.

After Trump, who was the most pro-Israel president in history, Biden's cabinet is entirely made up of jews.
We can see what's happening. We're not stupid.

1) Whether Assad goes or not, there is no denying that he is overall a hostile element to Turkey in cahoots with Russia and Iran.

2) Iraqi people absolutely f***ing hate Iran. Iranian media mocks them at every turn and their influence is tolerated at best. Turkey should actually invest more in Iran, you could put a massive headache right on Iran's doorstep.

3) You got 60 peacekeepers and we got 80% of our territory liberated. Russians got 2000 men inside Azerbaijan and are openly assisting Armenians to rebuild and likely try again in the future. It is far from over and anyone saying that has zero clue about what's going on in the region.

4 and 5 are absolutely not minor issues. The US has specific lobbies interested in screwing over Turkey. Russia as an entire country is interested in screwing over Turkey as much as possible are openly killing your soldiers. Also, I have never commented on this before because I didn't want to start an argument but are you REALLY sure that PKK having NATO weapons means open NATO support? You do realize that there are NATO weapons all over the place in Syria and Iraq from all the various factions fighting? PKK even get their hands on Turkish equipment sometimes and I doubt TAF is freely giving it to them.
 

Ryder

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Dont forget in our Turkish independance war how the Americans bombed Samsun and had troops in Bandirma while Woodrow wilson tried to give a huge chunk of Turkey to Armenians. They only withdrew due to American public and the growing isolation in world affairs. As whatever happened in Europe the Americans no longer cared.

Usa will always will be an enemy to Turkiye.
 

Zafer

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You keep talking about how it doesn't matter how Turkey conducts itself in foreign policy, it can fight its way out of any quagmire. My point was that any time Turkey or any nation really, tried this, it resulted in massive loss of life to rectify a problem that shouldn't have existed to begin with.

A bunch of mafia states acting against us is not the big deal you think it is, we have very good relations with other nations.
 

PatrioticTÜRK

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Dont forget in our Turkish independance war how the Americans bombed Samsun and had troops in Bandirma while Woodrow wilson tried to give a huge chunk of Turkey to Armenians. They only withdrew due to American public and the growing isolation in world affairs. As whatever happened in Europe the Americans no longer cared.

Usa will always will be an enemy to Turkiye.
Not just usa russia as well they want İstanbul its holy for orthodox also İsrael arzı mevud plan
 
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