China South-China-Sea

Viva_vietnamm

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Doesn't change the fact that the PVA was able to push back the UN/US forces from it's borders and liberate entire North-Korea even below the the 38th parallel.
And the US wasn't willing to lose more man about this. As such a clear military victory for China, independent of N-Korea failed attempt towards reunification under communist rule.
Bcs N.Korea has No strategic value like Afganistan and CN, so US didn't wanna escalate the war.

US didn't even wanna help S.Korea , too bcs SK also has No strategic value and not worth to help.

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Factors in US intervention​

The Truman administration was unprepared for the invasion. Korea was not included in the strategic Asian Defense Perimeter outlined by United States Secretary of State Dean Acheson.[152] Truman himself was at his home in Independence, Missouri.[153] Military strategists were more concerned with the security of Europe against the Soviet Union than East Asia

 

Jagdflieger

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Bcs N.Korea has No strategic value like Afganistan and CN, so US didn't wanna escalate the war.

US didn't even wanna help S.Korea , too bcs SK also has No strategic value and not worth to help.

---------------

Factors in US intervention​

The Truman administration was unprepared for the invasion. Korea was not included in the strategic Asian Defense Perimeter outlined by United States Secretary of State Dean Acheson.[152] Truman himself was at his home in Independence, Missouri.[153] Military strategists were more concerned with the security of Europe against the Soviet Union than East Asia

:ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: come on, N-Korea has a huge strategic value.
Off course the US wanted - needed to help S-Korea and they suceeded by taking out the N-Korean attempt to reunify under communist rule. As such preserving the S-Korean "democratic" Republic.
 

Viva_vietnamm

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:ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: come on, N-Korea has a huge strategic value.
Off course the US wanted - needed to help S-Korea and they suceeded by taking out the N-Korean attempt to reunify under communist rule. As such preserving the S-Korean "democratic" Republic.
If CN-NK attack SK again, specially when US's economy is quite bad now, I bet that US will sit and watch SK die like Afganistan bcs US just don't see any different between SK and Afganistan :LOL:

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Factors in US intervention​

The Truman administration was unprepared for the invasion. Korea was not included in the strategic Asian Defense Perimeter outlined by United States Secretary of State Dean Acheson.[152] Truman himself was at his home in Independence, Missouri.[153] Military strategists were more concerned with the security of Europe against the Soviet Union than East Asia
 

Viva_vietnamm

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As for posts/statements like:
SCS( east VN sea) is not an ocean, big ships will be sunk by anti-ship missile easier. Thats why CN navy had to withdraw in the conflict and make the World laugh at how idiot CN's naval force is .

I am looking forward to future "interesting discussions" with you, based on sources and generally accepted information - so maybe you can find a way to "exclude" such statements? Maybe China wihdrew simply due to the fact that they did not want to escalate that particular incident? and not due to supposed military deficiencies? e.g. they could have maybe won, but took into account an international backlash? that might have caused more harm then a voluntary retreat?
Just saying ;)
So, no more question why CN had to withdraw in 2014 VN-CN conflict after deleting some of my post , bro ??

they could have maybe won
The chance to win against VN is alost Zero without support from US.
 

Jagdflieger

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If CN-NK attack SK again, specially when US's economy is quite bad now, I bet that US will sit and watch SK die like Afganistan bcs US just don't see any different between SK and Afganistan :LOL:

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Factors in US intervention​

The Truman administration was unprepared for the invasion. Korea was not included in the strategic Asian Defense Perimeter outlined by United States Secretary of State Dean Acheson.[152] Truman himself was at his home in Independence, Missouri.[153] Military strategists were more concerned with the security of Europe against the Soviet Union than East Asia
if so - would only proof to S.E.A. that the US would not be the partner to look for ;)
However S-Korea is a red-line for the USA - and China is not willing to cross a US red line.
The same goes for the Taiwan issue - it's a red line for China. And the USA is not willing to cross a Chinese red line either.

So both squabble for the South-China-Sea presently - until maybe one day China will declare the SCS a red line too.
 

Jagdflieger

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So, no more question why CN had to withdraw in 2014 VN-CN conflict after deleting some of my post , bro ??
No
The chance to win against VN is alost Zero without support from US.
if you make such a statement - you would need to back it up with e.g. economic and military sources and stats. - otherwise it's just a personal statement of yours.
Please feel free to show Vietnam's "superior military" in facts and figures - in regards to China.

Personally however I would regard it as a waste of your time - if you don't mind me saying so.
 

Viva_vietnamm

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No

if you make such a statement - you would need to back it up with e.g. economic and military sources and stats. - otherwise it's just a personal statement of yours.
Please feel free to show Vietnam's "superior military" in facts and figures - in regards to China.

Personally however I would regard it as a waste of your time - if you don't mind me saying so.
We don't have "superior military" cos we are small, but u should know that having "superior military" doesn't mean u will always win.

Mongol had much "superior military" against VN after they annexed CN succesully, but who won the war ?? Its VN, not Mongol (while CN still was much stronger than VN that time, but still was massacred and erased in the world map ).

1655978901395.png
 

Jagdflieger

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We don't have "superior military" cos we are small, but u should know that having "superior military" doesn't mean u will always win.
I see
Mongol had much "superior military" against VN after they annexed CN succesully, but who won the war ?? Its VN, not Mongol (while CN still was much stronger than VN that time, but still was massacred and erased in the world map ).

View attachment 45230
Please state your case in regards to today's situation in the SCS - no one really cares as to what Genghis khan and his boys achieved or not achieved in this thread. ;)
 

Viva_vietnamm

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However S-Korea is a red-line for the USA - and China is not willing to cross a US red line.
The same goes for the Taiwan issue - it's a red line for China. And the USA is not willing to cross a Chinese red line either.
SK is not red line , she was not included in the strategic Asian Defense Perimeter. Believing SK is red line is just like Afganistan is also US's red line. :lol:

btw, can u tell me why SK is more important than Afganistan ??

So both squabble for the South-China-Sea presently - until maybe one day China will declare the SCS a red line too.
CN can declare the Moon and Sun belong to CN , too, who cares ?? start the war if CN has the guts
 

Viva_vietnamm

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I see

Please state your case in regards to today's situation in the SCS - no one really cares as to what Gengis and his boys achieved or not achieved in this thread.
today's situation in the SCS (east VN sea )?? as I said, this sea is not an Ocean where u can win the battle with big ships and carriers. In this sea, anti-ship missile with the range of 300-400km is enough to blow up any ships and VN has 6 Kilos with good anti ship missiles. So, there is No chance to anyone to beat VN in this sea.

Not mentioning VN always has full support from big bro Russia.
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3M-54 Kalibr missile: The SHARP sword of the Vietnamese KILO submarine​

June 4, 2021

3M-54 Kalibr (Klub) missile is considered one of the weapons that give power to Russia’s Kilo-class submarines.​


The Kalibr missile weighs 2 tons, is launched from a 533mm torpedo tube on a Kilo-class submarine. 3M54 missile carries a warhead weighing 200 kg. The anti-ship version had a range of 300 km and a speed of up to 3,000 km/h in the last few minutes of the final phase. In addition, there are air-launched and surface-launched variants. The ground attack variant does not have high speed in the final stages, so can carry larger warheads up to 400 kg.
What makes the Kilo submarine’s Kalibr missile particularly dangerous is its final stage. At this time, the missile suddenly accelerated to an altitude of only about 30m. With a relatively high speed in the final stage, meaning that the missile travels the last 15 km in less than 20 seconds at extremely low altitudes, making it very difficult for enemy defenses to intercept the 3M54 missile.

Vietnam Navy
Vietnam Navy
The 3M54 is similar to Russia’s Cold War anti-ship missiles such as the 3M80 Moskit and the P-700 Granite. The Russian cruise missile lacks combat experience and has a reputation for being rather erratic. The real quality of this missile is still questioned by Western observers. Even so, Moscow still believes that the warships of some countries in the region do not have effective enough defense systems to defend against missiles like the Kalibr. Therefore, Kalibr is still a weapon that gives Vietnam an advantage.

With Kalibr missiles, Vietnam is the only military in the world besides Russia, possessing all 3 types of the world’s most advanced and fearsome anti-ship cruise missiles, including Kh-35E on surface ships and Su-30 fighters; Yakhont missile of the Bastion-P coastal defense missile system; and Kalibr of the Kilo submarine.

 

Jagdflieger

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SK is not red line , she was not included in the strategic Asian Defense Perimeter. Believing SK is red line is just like Afganistan is also US's red line. :lol:
you are citing past history e.g. Dean Acheson’s ‘Perimeter Speech’ on Asia (1950) In January 1950

Maybe it's time that you "update" yourself - e.g.
btw, can u tell me why SK is more important than Afganistan ??
feel free to tell me
CN can declare the Moon and Sun belong to CN , too, who cares ?? start the war if CN has the guts
China IMO isn't looking for a war - unlike others, preferably making use of proxies.
 

Jagdflieger

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today's situation in the SCS (east VN sea )?? as I said, this sea is not an Ocean where u can win the battle with big ships and carriers. In this sea, anti-ship missile with the range of 300-400km is enough to blow up any ships and VN has 6 Kilos with good anti ship missiles. So, there is No chance to anyone to beat VN in this sea.

Not mentioning VN always has full support from big bro Russia.
-------------------------

3M-54 Kalibr missile: The SHARP sword of the Vietnamese KILO submarine​

June 4, 2021

3M-54 Kalibr (Klub) missile is considered one of the weapons that give power to Russia’s Kilo-class submarines.​


The Kalibr missile weighs 2 tons, is launched from a 533mm torpedo tube on a Kilo-class submarine. 3M54 missile carries a warhead weighing 200 kg. The anti-ship version had a range of 300 km and a speed of up to 3,000 km/h in the last few minutes of the final phase. In addition, there are air-launched and surface-launched variants. The ground attack variant does not have high speed in the final stages, so can carry larger warheads up to 400 kg.
What makes the Kilo submarine’s Kalibr missile particularly dangerous is its final stage. At this time, the missile suddenly accelerated to an altitude of only about 30m. With a relatively high speed in the final stage, meaning that the missile travels the last 15 km in less than 20 seconds at extremely low altitudes, making it very difficult for enemy defenses to intercept the 3M54 missile.

Vietnam Navy
Vietnam Navy
The 3M54 is similar to Russia’s Cold War anti-ship missiles such as the 3M80 Moskit and the P-700 Granite. The Russian cruise missile lacks combat experience and has a reputation for being rather erratic. The real quality of this missile is still questioned by Western observers. Even so, Moscow still believes that the warships of some countries in the region do not have effective enough defense systems to defend against missiles like the Kalibr. Therefore, Kalibr is still a weapon that gives Vietnam an advantage.

With Kalibr missiles, Vietnam is the only military in the world besides Russia, possessing all 3 types of the world’s most advanced and fearsome anti-ship cruise missiles, including Kh-35E on surface ships and Su-30 fighters; Yakhont missile of the Bastion-P coastal defense missile system; and Kalibr of the Kilo submarine.

I see - so Submarines to you are invincible - I think you need to try much harder to convince anyone of Vietnam's ability to take on China.
 

Viva_vietnamm

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I see - so Submarines to you are invincible - I think you need to try much harder to convince anyone of Vietnam's ability to take on China.
WHy we need to convince anyone when we just gave CN a hard slap in 2014 conflict ?? Try to attack VN if CN has the gut to fight without support from US like in 1979.

We also had to defeat Mongol not only 1 time but up to 3 times to make them realized that Mongol cavalry forces can crush CN army easily, but small VN ambush forces had much more advantage when fighting in VN's soil and water. :cool:
 

Ravenman

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No, that is actually you (foreigners) bringing in that silly and meaningless argument.

Foreigner? And you are not a foreigner?

Busted. Glad to admit that you are a Chinese troll who pretends to be 'German' to give the Peoples Republic a whitewashing in the domain of the public opinion.

But it doesnt work that way becausr there is not one German in the world who's so fanatical pro-China, so nobody believes you. There goes your good work to win social credit points.

Oh and here are the arguments of your other co-worker in this topic giving arguments like China produces the most underwear and bycyles when someone states that China has no experience in warfare.

Screenshot_20220623-161746_Chrome.jpg
 

Viva_vietnamm

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you are citing past history e.g. Dean Acheson’s ‘Perimeter Speech’ on Asia (1950) In January 1950

Maybe it's time that you "update" yourself - e.g.

feel free to tell me
I don't see US commit to protect SK at all cost in your link.

China IMO isn't looking for a war - unlike others, preferably making use of proxies.
Even when CN is lookin for the war in SCS(east VN sea), she will still be a loser cos CN doesn't know how to destroy our Kilos (while CN's big ships will be easy targets to our anti-ship missiles ), just like Mongol cavalry failed to crushed VN's ambush forces and was defeated 3 times.
 
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Jagdflieger

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I don't see US commit to protect SK at all cost in your link.
You think that the US is just for the fun of it stationing and committing large contingent's towards S-Korea?
Even when CN is lookin for the war in SCS(east VN sea), she will still be a loser cos CN doesn't know how to destroy our Kilos (while CN's big ships will be easy targets to our anti-ship missiles ), just like Mongol cavalry failed to crushed VN's ambush forces and was defeated 3 times.
Feel free to state what military assets China in your opinion is missing to hunt and destroy a submarine - and quit this Mongol nonsense.
 

Viva_vietnamm

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You think that the US is just for the fun of it stationing and committing large contingent's towards S-Korea?

Feel free to state what military assets China in your opinion is missing to hunt and destroy a submarine - and quit this Mongol nonsense.

See ?? SK is completely Useless to US


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------​

Trump proposed complete withdrawal of U.S. Forces Korea: Esper​

All News 01:46 May 11, 2022
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By Byun Duk-kun
WASHINGTON, May 10 (Yonhap) -- Former U.S. President Donald Trump had repeatedly proposed completely withdrawing U.S. troops from South Korea, former Secretary of Defense Mark Esper said in a memoir released Tuesday.
The former U.S. defense chief also said Trump had made many of what he called "outlandish" proposals.
"Some of the things he was proposing were outlandish -- such as a "complete withdrawal of U.S. forces from South Korea" or the pullback of all military and diplomatic personnel from Africa," Esper said in the book, titled, "A Sacred Oath."


"
None of this was in our nation's interests, and as I calmly responded with facts, data, and arguments, I saw some irritation in him -- I was the "new guy" pushing back," he added.
The U.S. currently maintains some 28,500 troops in South Korea.


.
 

Viva_vietnamm

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Feel free to state what military assets China in your opinion is missing to hunt and destroy a submarine - and quit this Mongol nonsense.

What is missing in CN military ?? smart and brave men while too much useless men. Basically, Kilos is almost undetectable when she just sit quietly on the sea bed.
 

Jagdflieger

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Foreigner? And you are not a foreigner?

Busted. Glad to admit that you are a Chinese troll who pretends to be 'German' to give the Peoples Republic a whitewashing in the domain of the public opinion.

But it doesnt work that way becausr there is not one German in the world who's so fanatical pro-China, so nobody believes you. There goes your good work to win social credit points.

Oh and here are the arguments of your other co-worker in this topic giving arguments like China produces the most underwear and bycyles when someone states that China has no experience in warfare.

View attachment 45238
Bad luck for you - I am a foreigner in China, since I am a German national

So one of your statements already proves to be wrong
Your other statement also proves to be wrong - since neither xizhimen or me - wrote or posted anything about "the most underwear and bycyles"
Same goes for your statement of me being a Chinese troll

So three statements of yours, and all are utterly wrong.

So who is the troll? and try to kindly remember Trolls get banned sooner or later
 

Jagdflieger

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See ?? SK is completely Useless to US


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------​

Trump proposed complete withdrawal of U.S. Forces Korea: Esper​

All News 01:46 May 11, 2022
SHARE LIKE SAVE PRINT
FONT SIZE
By Byun Duk-kun
WASHINGTON, May 10 (Yonhap) -- Former U.S. President Donald Trump had repeatedly proposed completely withdrawing U.S. troops from South Korea, former Secretary of Defense Mark Esper said in a memoir released Tuesday.
The former U.S. defense chief also said Trump had made many of what he called "outlandish" proposals.
"Some of the things he was proposing were outlandish -- such as a "complete withdrawal of U.S. forces from South Korea" or the pullback of all military and diplomatic personnel from Africa," Esper said in the book, titled, "A Sacred Oath."


"None of this was in our nation's interests, and as I calmly responded with facts, data, and arguments, I saw some irritation in him -- I was the "new guy" pushing back," he added.
The U.S. currently maintains some 28,500 troops in South Korea.


.
Maybe you should take some time to find out as to what statements have which background.

Dumb Trump's political statement - in order to get elected also beheld the idea - (promise to his voter's) that the USA will no longer finance the defense of Nations who do not contribute a necessary share of their GDP towards their own defense capability.
E.g. Germany and S-Korea. Germany is still limping behind it's commitment promises - but S-Korea offered substantial sums in order to keep US protection.

AFAIK Dumb Trump did not reduce US presence in S-Korea and neither has Biden done so. - so the article and statements that you post do not reflect reality.
 
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