Live Conflict Terrorist activities in Papua, Indonesia

[trishna_amrta]

I've made this thread specially for discussion pertinent to terrorist activity in Papua, including socio-political, economy aspect, etc. And in case any of you ask why not just putting it inside Law Enforcement thread It's because the subject cover more narrow topic but also broader in its possible implications.

MOD @Madokafc can you be kind enough to make this thread sticky pls. That way any future discussion pertinent to the subject matter could be directed here.

Thanks Beforehand

 

[Madokafc]

Done

 

[Madokafc]

F16 nya using Lockheed Martin poster for Indonesian F16V

 

[Agha Sher]

Who's the terriost group and what are their goals?

 

[Madokafc]

Who's the terriost group and what are their goals?

They are separatist movements in Papua, their ultimate goals is to be independen from Indonesia

 

[Ravager]

OK . I try to reiterated what i'm trying to convey before things get heated and moved .
First ... Let's differentiate between statement from member of state actors and SJW one . While they do overlapped and twisted/exploited sometime . nobody sane enough in the Oz govs today were eager to do the Timor's charity work 2.0 . Between Indo 1998 and today there is whole different actor and ballgame we are playing now on .... Add that with the " Yellow surge " and need of solid ally you'll understand the gist of it ... SJW's voices and concerns be damned .
Second ... Do you ever wonder why the Oz as whole were seen to allergic on almost anything about port moresby ?? Do you ? Political toxicity aside their whole PNG society was so corrupted they literally riding on the proverbial tiger's back of downwarded political , economic and social discontent . As naived as Oz SJW could ever be even they knows better than to just freely wipe some aboriginal ass out of their good hearts and mind if that doesn't sound of hypocrisy to you than i don't know what it is .... And yeah , while i do look my own country as shithole . compared to the PNG atleast we are living in the proverbial havens .
Third .... Anybody who think the OZ were doing fine in the East timor these day must be living in the different world than the rest of us here . Wake up dude !! Their honeymoon was allready over years ago . They only waiting for the divorce paper by now literally ... After years of political Independence and shorter than my boxer of oil boom and yet not a single tangible and meaningfull progress were to be seen by the populace . the east timorese today were close to a boiling point and eager to leash anger on everybody no matter who ... And guess who they will blame when it come to their sole source of wealth thievery ?? ...


Things are never black and white bru ....never

 

[Madokafc]

OK . I try to reiterated what i'm trying to convey before things get heated and moved .
First ... Let's differentiate between statement from member of state actors and SJW one . While they do overlapped and twisted/exploited sometime . nobody sane enough in the Oz govs today were eager to do the Timor's charity work 2.0 . Between Indo 1998 and today there is whole different actor and ballgame we are playing now on .... Add that with the " Yellow surge " and need of solid ally you'll understand the gist of it ... SJW's voices and concerns be damned .
Second ... Do you ever wonder why the Oz as whole were seen to allergic on almost anything about port moresby ?? Do you ? Political toxicity aside their whole PNG society was so corrupted they literally riding on the proverbial tiger's back of downwarded political , economic and social discontent . As naived as Oz SJW could ever be even they knows better than to just freely wipe some aboriginal ass out of their good hearts and mind if that doesn't sound of hypocrisy to you than i don't know what it is .... And yeah , while i do look my own country as shithole . compared to the PNG atleast we are living in the proverbial havens .
Third .... Anybody who think the OZ were doing fine in the East timor these day must be living in the different world than the rest of us here . Wake up dude !! Their honeymoon was allready over years ago . They only waiting for the divorce paper by now literally ... After years of political Independence and shorter than my boxer of oil boom and yet not a single tangible and meaningfull progress were to be seen by the populace . the east timorese today were close to a boiling point and eager to leash anger on everybody no matter who ... And guess who they will blame when it come to their sole source of wealth thievery ?? ...


Things are never black and white bru ....never

Sometimes there is person who do thing according to his/her ideals, naivety, goals without regard to his/her own country National interest. Just take a look at Duterte, as the best example. I think it is true Oz National interest largely put Indonesia as a more important bulkwark and fortress against the rising threat of China, compared to giving support for OPM/terrorist scum, but Oz had traditional democracy system in which we don't know what kind of leadership they can bred every election years, though the same case can happened in Indonesia but not every sane leadership in Indonesia would shot her/his carreer by giving attention to the idea of Papua independen unless he/she ready to become a traitor and sinner for seven or more families generation.

This, i am more on the stand to always put wary attitude against any state with such background, Singapore i believe they are reasonably are a very trusted partner we ever had till now as they even declined the offer of FPDA to sent any contingent troops to Timor Leste post 1998 with background to preserved Indonesia-Singapore cooperation albeit our excelency deceased Presiden once called them as Red Dot at the time, but Australia? they had wronged us once, i don't think it is wrong to put them into our own wary list.

There is nothing we can do but keep building our economy, building our military, keep diplomacy channel available every where to put pressure against any actor or state who give support for the idea of Papua independence like Vanuatu and some Melanesian countries. SBY initiative to engage MSG is excellent idea actually and we can do more than that, and we should be more wary of intention of two Super power (China and USA) more and use the available cards more clever.

 

[NEKO]

Sometimes there is person who do thing according to his/her ideals, naivety, goals without regard to his/her own country National interest. Just take a look at Duterte, as the best example. I think it is true Oz National interest largely put Indonesia as a more important bulkwark and fortress against the rising threat of China, compared to giving support for OPM/terrorist scum, but Oz had traditional democracy system in which we don't know what kind of leadership they can bred every election years, though the same case can happened in Indonesia but not every sane leadership in Indonesia would shot her/his carreer by giving attention to the idea of Papua independen unless he/she ready to become a traitor and sinner for seven or more families generation.

This, i am more on the stand to always put wary attitude against any state with such background, Singapore i believe they are reasonably are a very trusted partner we ever had till now as they even declined the offer of FPDA to sent any contingent troops to Timor Leste post 1998 with background to preserved Indonesia-Singapore cooperation albeit our excelency deceased Presiden once called them as Red Dot at the time, but Australia? they had wronged us once, i don't think it is wrong to put them into our own wary list.

There is nothing we can do but keep building our economy, building our military, keep diplomacy channel available every where to put pressure against any actor or state who give support for the idea of Papua independence like Vanuatu and some Melanesian countries. SBY initiative to engage MSG is excellent idea actually and we can do more than that, and we should be more wary of intention of two Super power (China and USA) more and use the available cards more clever.

I agree about SG to a certain point.

 

[Nilgiri]

Indonesia will prevail, but it will be kind of persistent thing to some level for long time as this area is sufficiently far away (from "hearth" both distance and culture wise etc - even accounting for INA great diversity in its hearth), logistics are not great...and this area is very big and thick jungle all over the place (That make ideal place for such separatist/terrorist guerillas etc).

Indonesia (IMO) has to focus on:

A) Strict visible Law and order for towns and cities, so locals build trust in the system and see reward for engaging in honest commerce...and these draw in people from villages over time that spread this value system/credibility there too. It needs good local courts and police.

B) More smart sensoring and smart deployment in the contested areas, esp among tech it has far more access to compared to the separatists. EO/IR sensors optimised for this kind of jungle, and what are the best salient and efficient response to an accumulated threat somewhere.

C) Prioritising....i.e what is high, mid and low priority....to delineate well the sequence of resources spent. Secure Roots--trunk-branches-leaves etc in that order as you cannot accomplish whole tree overnight.

 

[Ravager]

[/QUOTE]

Sometimes there is person who do thing according to his/her ideals, naivety, goals without regard to his/her own country National interest. Just take a look at Duterte, as the best example. I think it is true Oz National interest largely put Indonesia as a more important bulkwark and fortress against the rising threat of China, compared to giving support for OPM/terrorist scum, but Oz had traditional democracy system in which we don't know what kind of leadership they can bred every election years, though the same case can happened in Indonesia but not every sane leadership in Indonesia would shot her/his carreer by giving attention to the idea of Papua independen unless he/she ready to become a traitor and sinner for seven or more families generation.

This, i am more on the stand to always put wary attitude against any state with such background, Singapore i believe they are reasonably are a very trusted partner we ever had till now as they even declined the offer of FPDA to sent any contingent troops to Timor Leste post 1998 with background to preserved Indonesia-Singapore cooperation albeit our excelency deceased Presiden once called them as Red Dot at the time, but Australia? they had wronged us once, i don't think it is wrong to put them into our own wary list.

There is nothing we can do but keep building our economy, building our military, keep diplomacy channel available every where to put pressure against any actor or state who give support for the idea of Papua independence like Vanuatu and some Melanesian countries. SBY initiative to engage MSG is excellent idea actually and we can do more than that, and we should be more wary of intention of two Super power (China and USA) more and use the available cards more clever.

To be honest .... I never mentioned Oz as a trusted partner . But i digress ... Grammar was never my strong suit after all

All in all we could only rely on our self . While in some degree Singapore as a state entity was the closest partner we have . Too much of their bussinessman heavily exploiting our resources human and materiel alike in reckless abandon . but in catch 22., we are too poor to be economically independent after all .
And Oz ..?? After timor gap brouhaha only an idiot will put their words to the heart . And in the kind of ironic twist of sense the East timor case provide us with the clear example on how much sincerity our treatment and vision toward the east timorese was . albeit it was full with bloods and deceits along it's course .
And none of it would be seen right now as today windows are still obscured by all of those tinted glass of so called Humanity rights and social justice dreams yet those dreams are neglecting the basic foundation of life that's called REALITY !!after 15 years of independence all they could afford was fixing the existing roads and school building we were building up for them in the first place . we were practically lifting the East timorese up from a stone age after spent years of neglect by the portuguesse colonizer .
At the end of the day i agree with your's ... Without economic power we all are tiger without tooths and claws ...

 

[Van Kravchenko]

If , if only papua region got into splited away. Just wait into the time when that country become second nauru.

From now on, counter intelegence and extinguish proxy war should be take into high account for the stakeholder.

 

[trishna_amrta]

Done

Thanks. Hopefully we can get real discussion rolling here rather than just posting sales brochure or propaganda piece

 

[trishna_amrta]

A) Strict visible Law and order for towns and cities, so locals build trust in the system and see reward for engaging in honest commerce...and these draw in people from villages over time that spread this value system/credibility there too. It needs good local courts and police.

That is extremely challenging. Most rural folks around here don't trust the police. While big city folk like me has always been living by "The Less Regulation & Tax, The Better" motto.

B) More smart sensoring and smart deployment in the contested areas, esp among tech it has far more access to compared to the separatists. EO/IR sensors optimised for this kind of jungle, and what are the best salient and efficient response to an accumulated threat somewhere.

Unfortunately the bad guys also aware the advantage of using rainforest jungle as concealment. And I don't see any practical way for any current technology will be able to effectively track a moving target in real time.

heck I personally could make myself an improvise multi spectral concealment system using day-to-day materials + commercial sport wear, and using the jungle environment as force multiplier. Luckily the bad guys isn't smart enough to do the same (at least for the moment)

 

[Required]

That is extremely challenging. Most rural folks around here don't trust the police. While big city folk like me has always been living by "The Less Regulation & Tax, The Better" motto.


Unfortunately the bad guys also aware the advantage of using rainforest jungle as concealment. And I don't see any practical way for any current technology will be able to effectively track a moving target in real time.

heck I personally could make myself an improvise multi spectral concealment system using day-to-day materials + commer

I just wondering, it will be very dangerous for our infantry units if they (OPM) had more advanced technology like RPG, ATGM, or AA weapon.

With ongoing conflict in south Philippines and Criminal in PNG, it's a miracle they don't have those weapon.

 

[trishna_amrta]

I just wondering, it will be very dangerous for our infantry units if they (OPM) had more advanced technology like RPG, ATGM, or AA weapon.

With ongoing conflict in south Philippines and Criminal in PNG, it's a miracle they don't have those weapon.

What will be most dangerous for our force is neither of those weapons, but something else entirely (of which I will not mention). Remember any kind of firearm or explosive for that matter is just another tool to achieve a goal. In battlefield across recorded history its always non weapon aspect that actually won a battle and eventually a war.

 

[Van Kravchenko]

What will be most dangerous for our force is neither of those weapons, but something else entirely (of which I will not mention). Remember any kind of firearm or explosive for that matter is just another tool to achieve a goal. In battlefield across recorded history its always non weapon aspect that actually won a battle and eventually a war.

I believe i catch you there, the result of war act like bargaining chip for its contenders.

So far, i think goverment still capable to handle this either smooth or rough way to handle the "non weapon" you've mentioned above

 

[NEKO]

nauru

Nauru? What about nauru?

 

[Van Kravchenko]

Nauru? What about nauru?

Sudden rich and sudden Bankrupt after its resources shoved away by foreign country.

Perhaps didnt even fair comparison, but timor leste has sown us the terrible of being independence but still poor.

 

[BBOn]

I just wondering, it will be very dangerous for our infantry units if they (OPM) had more advanced technology like RPG, ATGM, or AA weapon.

With ongoing conflict in south Philippines and Criminal in PNG, it's a miracle they don't have those weapon.

If they are going to use RPG,ATGM and AAG then it will be follow up by changing their offensive tactics and doctrin, which is the easiest way to confront the enemy rather than must sweap entire square meter of jungle.

 

[trishna_amrta]

timor leste has sown us the terrible of being independence but still poor.

Well keep them that way. So far they are still comfortable with Buying from Indonesia, and Hiring Indonesian expertise (I also still happy taking their $)