TR TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

Zafer

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F22-TFX nose comparison
View attachment 52339
F22 photo is taken from a distance with a telephoto lens and does not suffer from lens distortion whereas TFX photo is taken from close up distance and uses a wide angle and possibly a mobile phone camera which suffers from camera lens bulbous distortion. It will look somewhat different when photographed from a distance with a telephoto lens, FYI.
 

Umigami

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What contribution can they make? They can't financially support maybe except Indonesia? We are already cooperating on subsystems from these countries I guess. I don't want to be misunderstood I'm just worried.Would partnering with the wrong country in this project harm the mmu program? Will we have problems with the subsystems which supplied from other countries ?
For Indonesia: possible future market. Nothing more, nothing less.
 

Khagan1923

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Indonesia won't leave the KFX program to join TFX as it would destroy relations with Korea. And they won't join another program as it would strain their already strained Air Force budget. Do not forget Indonesia is buying Rafale, F-15EX and is in the KFX program and will be getting second hand Mirage-2000.

Malaysia could be an candidate but I would weigh their possible invitation after they have made an decision in their on going tender.

Pakistan. Sadly no, I think it would be detrimental towards the program and our own security to let an country join which has such close ties with China. And anyone thinking the chinese won't gain access to the TFX if it was sold to Pakistan or its tech if Pakistan became an partner is naive. Pakistan is better of waiting for the J-35 to become available which is most likely their goal anyway.

Azerbaijan. No brainer. Azerbaijan will most likely be the first costumer or partner in this case. Replacing its soviet-era Air Force.
 

Khagan1923

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For Indonesia: possible future market. Nothing more, nothing less.

Is it though? F-15EX, Rafale, KF-21,F-16, SU-27/30 and possible purchase of second hand Mirage-2000 from Qatar.

Where would be room for a possible TF-X in its inventory. Even if F-16, Su-27/30, Mirage-2000 are phased out by the time TF-X hits LRIP or FRP in the 30s. Good possibility you guys even could have your F-16 be modernized to Block 70/72 which would keep them active even longer.
 

Umigami

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Indonesia won't leave the KFX program to join TFX as it would destroy relations with Korea. And they won't join another program as it would strain their already strained Air Force budget. Do not forget Indonesia is buying Rafale, F-15EX and is in the KFX program and will be getting second hand Mirage-2000.
About that Mirage... ugh... No, we can't get it apparently.
And even after all those Boramae, Rafale and Eagle landed here, we still don't have 5th gen fighter 😬
So yeah... MMU still has a chance here. BUT Indonesia can only be a customer, not developmental partner or else.

Well MMU not really a 5th gen in term of engine but pretty close I guess.
 

Yasar_TR

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What contribution can they make? They can't financially support maybe except Indonesia? We are already cooperating on subsystems from these countries I guess. I don't want to be misunderstood I'm just worried.Would partnering with the wrong country in this project harm the mmu program? Will we have problems with the subsystems which supplied from other countries ?
Pakistan is the poorest among them all.
Pakistan:
230 million population
350billion dollar GDP
Malaysia:
33.5 million population
373billion dollar GDP
Indonesia:
274million population
1.186 trillion dollar GDP
Azerbaijan:
10million population
54 billion dollar GDP
Turkey:
85million Population
820billion GDP

Pakistan has an aircraft production line, albeit with extensive Chinese input. (Russian engines and Chinese technology) This close Chinese relationship is a deal breaker in a strategic project like this. Also whilst having a manufacturing line already, how much of a resource can they allocate for a project like TFX?

Indonesia has knowledge and certain know how about KF21 production. They have financial strength. But they are already in bed with S.Korea.

Malaysia has a good manufacturing base for electronics and automotive industry. Willing to establish a production line for fighter planes. But will they be the right partner for TFX, when they really want a small Hurjet class plane?

Azerbaijan’s contribution would be financial and a potential purchasing of a squadron or two of these planes.
 

Chocopie

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I am really tired of these jokes.
Security cooperation between nation states does not work like that, and we all know it.
What joke? It‘s a well known fact that Pakistan gives Chinese access to US and Western arms tech.

Only one prominent example:
„Perhaps the highest-profile episode of suspected U.S. aviation technology transfer to China by way of Pakistan happened in 2011: Following the raid on Abbottabad that killed al Qaeda head Osama bin Laden, U.S. intelligence officials charged that Pakistan's spy service granted Chinese military technicians access to a downed Black Hawk helicopter and permitted them to take samples of the aircraft's skin, which contained state-of-the-art stealth technology.“

 

Umigami

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Good possibility you guys even could have your F-16 be modernized to Block 70/72 which would keep them active even longer.
Yeah. The posibility is quite huge now for that. But even after Viper upgrade, all those birds need to be retired in 2040s. Flanker, in 2030s.

Some higher up here still aiming for 5th gen. If we still can't get F35, Turkiye opportunities will be quite high here.
 
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F22 photo is taken from a distance with a telephoto lens and does not suffer from lens distortion whereas TFX photo is taken from close up distance and uses a wide angle and possibly a mobile phone camera which suffers from camera lens bulbous distortion. It will look somewhat different when photographed from a distance with a telephoto lens, FYI.
And also from a different angle (above and to the side vs below and to the front), which some people previously didn't understand and thought the intakes had become tiny.

Still, being careful, we can still see some differences. The tip of the nose geometry is different, similar to the F-35 except friggin huge.
 

Khagan1923

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What joke? It‘s a well known fact that Pakistan gives Chinese access to US and Western arms tech.

Only one prominent example:
„Perhaps the highest-profile episode of suspected U.S. aviation technology transfer to China by way of Pakistan happened in 2011: Following the raid on Abbottabad that killed al Qaeda head Osama bin Laden, U.S. intelligence officials charged that Pakistan's spy service granted Chinese military technicians access to a downed Black Hawk helicopter and permitted them to take samples of the aircraft's skin, which contained state-of-the-art stealth technology.“


For Pakistan a partnership with China is vital. Anyone thinking Pakistan wont share tech with them if asked or pressured by the Chinese is fooling themselves. And for the Pakistani Government their partnership with China will always take precedence than their "brotherhood" with us.
 

Umigami

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What joke? It‘s a well known fact that Pakistan gives Chinese access to US and Western arms tech.

Only one prominent example:
„Perhaps the highest-profile episode of suspected U.S. aviation technology transfer to China by way of Pakistan happened in 2011: Following the raid on Abbottabad that killed al Qaeda head Osama bin Laden, U.S. intelligence officials charged that Pakistan's spy service granted Chinese military technicians access to a downed Black Hawk helicopter and permitted them to take samples of the aircraft's skin, which contained state-of-the-art stealth technology.“

Well, although in Pakistan defense, there is no agreement Pakistan has to protect that technology (Pakistan didn't buy those helos) and US did violate Pakistani sovereignty using that Hawks so....
 

Chocopie

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Well, although in Pakistan defense, there is no agreement Pakistan has to protect that technology (Pakistan didn't buy those helos) and US did violate Pakistani sovereignty using that Hawks so....
Well, while giving secret shelter for years to the global no. 1 terrorist they had no entitlement to any sovereignty. Fuck with America, America will fuck you up. Fair game.
 

BalkanTurk90

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Pakistan‘s Chinese creditors, ahem, friends would love to dismantle a TFX to the last screw 😁
and? China is superpower and dont have clash of interests with Turkiye .
Why need china to dismantle TFX ?!
China already have its own 5 gen fighters .
Turkiye national threat in syria YPG . Will china protect ypg or USA?
If Turkiye want to take its islands back from puppet greek will face USA or China?
If Turkiye want to rule Balkan Turks (bosnia, kosovo , albania, maxedonia) will face China or USA ?!
The time has come that CHINA RUSSIA have became the NATURAL ALLIES of Turkiye u like it or not .
Europe , USA never will love/like you , they only want from you to rule and use u like cheap condom , Both of them , people and goverments are extremist zionist that want to put u on your knees .
During FETO coup , who supported them China or USA ?
Where Prime Coupist Gulen pig live ? Shaigai or pensilvania?
 
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Agha Sher

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Well, while giving secret shelter for years to the global no. 1 terrorist they had no obligations to any sovereignty. Fuck with America, America will fuck you up. Fair game.

That’s a ridiculous logic. If a PKK member is located in SK, is Turkey then allowed to bomb your country?
 

Umigami

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Well, while giving secret shelter for years to the global no. 1 terrorist they had no entitlement to any sovereignty. Fuck with America, America will fuck you up. Fair game.
US fuck Pakistan, Pakistan fuck America.
Yeah, Fair enough.

Enough with OOT.
 

Chocopie

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and? China is superpower and dont have clash of interests with Turkiye .
Why need china to dismantle TFX ?!
China already have its own 5 gen fighters .
Turkiye national threat in syria YPG . Will china protect ypg or USA?
If Turkiye want to take its islands back from puppet greek will face USA or China?
If Turkiye want to rule Balkan Turks (bosnia, kosovo , albania, maxedonia) will face China or USA ?!
The time has come that CHINA RUSSIA have became the NATURAL ALLIES of Turkiye u like it or not .
Europe , USA never will love/like you , they only want from you to rule and use u like cheap condom , Both of them , people and goverments are extremist zionist that want to put u on your knees .
During FETO coup , who supported them China or USA ?
Where Prime Coupist Gulen pig live ? Shaigai or pensilvania?
China‘s J-20 is Chinese definition of 5 gen. There‘s always room for improvement with sophisticated Western block tech that Turkey is still an important strategic part of despite all political differences (NATO).

If you think an „alliance“ with states like Russia or China is more advantageous for Türkiye‘s future endeavors, so be it. But I think smart Turkish strategists think otherwise.
 

Bürküt

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Pakistan is the poorest among them all.
Pakistan:
230 million population
350billion dollar GDP
Malaysia:
33.5 million population
373billion dollar GDP
Indonesia:
274million population
1.186 trillion dollar GDP
Azerbaijan:
10million population
54 billion dollar GDP
Turkey:
85million Population
820billion GDP

Pakistan has an aircraft production line, albeit with extensive Chinese input. (Russian engines and Chinese technology) This close Chinese relationship is a deal breaker in a strategic project like this. Also whilst having a manufacturing line already, how much of a resource can they allocate for a project like TFX?

Indonesia has knowledge and certain know how about KF21 production. They have financial strength. But they are already in bed with S.Korea.

Malaysia has a good manufacturing base for electronics and automotive industry. Willing to establish a production line for fighter planes. But will they be the right partner for TFX, when they really want a small Hurjet class plane?

Azerbaijan’s contribution would be financial and a potential purchasing of a squadron or two of these planes.
Here is the comment I was looking for. When you look at this list you can say that Pakistan can not support this project financially and technologically. And there will be a price to make Pakistan partner in this project considering it's relations whit China.

Azerbaijan has a low GDP even for it's low population

As you said, Malaysia has a good manufacturing output for electronics , semiconductors and a good GDP for it's population but even when buying light combat aircraft, they are very careful with expenditures. Will they be able to make the necessary contribution in a project like tfx? (or will they want?)

I don't think any of these countries pottential partners...
 

Bürküt

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I wish cultural ties and relations between Türkiye-India-SK were appropiate. A consortium could be formed.Each country would run its own warplane program separately but subsystems with high external dependency, difficult to produce and expensive; will be produced jointly with this consortium...
 
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