TR Air-Force TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[boredaf]

This jet is going to be underpowered so terribly.. what a shame.

How do you know that?

The new engines won't fix this either

Why is that?

It's basically twin engine and larger than f-22 but slower, weaker, lighter and multirole to be like f-35 because they won't be able to make a single good engine

What is wrong with having two engine multirole plane? What makes you think they won't be able to make a single good engine?

Super inefficient.

Again, why? What about it makes it "super inefficient", in comparison to what?

Years have been past and still absolutely zero news about it's engines so far.

Tests are continuing TF6000, and TEI was working on afterburners for TF10000 in the meantime. Both of these projects are steps towards TF35000, which is yes still some time off. What kind of news were you expecting exactly?

No one is building a 30k+ dry trust engines in the world.

And? It matters why?

As a kid I grew up dreaming about this plane before it was even announced to the public but as you get older and understand Turkey, you know it was all just a dream.

The plane flew. Twice. And project is going on, hundreds of people are working on both engines and plane itself. What were you expecting? That everything would be done in a flash? It might not even fly with TF35k in 2028, frankly I don't expect it until early 2030s, but the project is still going. There isn't a single proof that it has stopped or even slowed down.

If you are going to start complaining about it already, even though Kaan first flew not even a year ago, you'll run out of breath before you see the production models. Some patience ffs.

 

[UcanTost]

tf35000 will not arrive

 

[IC3M@N FX]

tf35000 will not arrive

What kind of logic do you think we would not even be able to develop and manufacture a normal screws?
The development of an complex high performance engine takes 8-10 years on average, why should this period be different for Turkey?
Are you perhaps suffering from a feeling of inferiority that only the USA, EU and Asia can develop high technology and Turkey should not try?
Thank God there are more people who have the faith and the will to research develop, otherwise we would be a country of absolute backwardness like Afghanistan.

People like them who don't believe in their own abilities have hindered the country's self-esteem for decades. Nation and people alike become successful when they achieve things and this is achieved step by step. If you can't handle that, you shouldn't read any more news in the Defense Industry.

I don't know of any country in the world that hasn't had the same difficulties producing their own high performance engine and the key to the solution is time and perseverance.

 

[Yasar_TR]

A world leader in turbine engines, like Rolls Royce, still hasn’t got a working engine to fit in to the Tempest jet fighter.
The demonstrator plane will have two EJ200 engines powering it.
We need to give some slack to TEI and Tusas. You can not hurry these high end engine developments.

UK Advances Tempest Demonstrator Toward 2027 First Flight | Aviation Week

The UK is signaling Tempest’s lead over the European FCAS with advances in ground test rigs and engine aerodynamic work.

aviationweek.com

 

[hugh]

My man Mahmut Akşit has been saying the same thing every time he is asked about TF35K. He says the most difficult thing for them is to manage the expectations. People are assuming too much and utter unrealistic timelines. But he's down to earth and not falling for the cheap propaganda. He cites how many years did the major OEMs take for developing an engine this complex.

It would be the best for us to bury TF35K deep in our minds and don't ask about its progress for a few years. Just focus on the timely delivery of TS1400 and TF6000. If these projects gives fruit without much of a hiccup then we'd find our legs to be more inquisitive about the giant elephant, TF35K, that we're trying to swallow.

 

[TR_123456]

My man Mahmut Akşit has been saying the same thing every time he is asked about TF35K. He says the most difficult thing for them is to manage the expectations. People are assuming too much and utter unrealistic timelines. But he's down to earth and not falling for the cheap propaganda. He cites how many years did the major OEMs take for developing an engine this complex.

It would be the best for us to bury TF35K deep in our minds and don't ask about its progress for a few years. Just focus on the timely delivery of TS1400 and TF6000. If these projects gives fruit without much of a hiccup then we'd find our legs to be more inquisitive about the giant elephant, TF35K, that we're trying to swallow.

You dont get it or dont want to get it.do you?
It is a must not a choice we have to make it,it is of existential importance.
Doesnt matter what people say about the TF35K engine,it will be ready before 2030.

 

[hugh]

You dont get it or dont want to get it.do you?

did I wrote about it before?

It is a must not a choice we have to make it,it is of existential importance.

I didn't say it's trivial. The fact that it is a must does not necessarily correspond to technical or infrastructure readiness.

Doesnt matter what people say about the TF35K engine,it will be ready before 2030.

what does "being ready" mean in this context?

- is it the first firing?
- or the first integration with the aircraft?
- or the first flight?
- or the first delivery?
- or the serial production?

 

[guest12]

My personal assumption is that TRMOTOR started off with an F110 engine and they are adapting the latest tech to it, so basically KAAN's indigenous engine will be a heavily modified F110 engine.
The reason why i think this is that TEI assembled and tested many F110 engines in the past, which means they have a lot of experience with it. This would explain their confidence to build the indigenous engine in time.

https://www.tei.com.tr/en/projects/ait-mro/f110-engine

From what it read at past this is exatly what GE offered to TEI and our side refused because lifetime of engine would be reduced too much.

 

[TR_123456]

did I wrote about it before?


I didn't say it's trivial. The fact that it is a must does not necessarily correspond to technical or infrastructure readiness.


what does "being ready" mean in this context?

- is it the first firing?
- or the first integration with the aircraft?
- or the first flight?
- or the first delivery?
- or the serial production?

All tests done in 2 years(2028 to 2030).
End of 2030 first 12 KAAN's with the new domestic engine.


If i am alive till then we talk again.

 

[hugh]

All tests done in 2 years(2028 to 2030).
End of 2030 first 12 KAAN's with the new domestic engine.

the most optimistic timeline I could fathom is;

- CDR in 2026 and start of production of the first prototype
- first firing in 2027
- first flight in 2029
- first delivery 2031

but this is borderline impossible. TF6000 was fired this year and won't be delivered before 2028.

I do think that the testing phase of TF35K will stretch the calendar by a few years.

 

[TR_123456]

the most optimistic timeline I could fathom is;

- CDR in 2026 and start of production of the first prototype
- first firing in 2027
- first flight in 2029
- first delivery 2031

but this is borderline impossible. TF6000 was fired this year and won't be delivered before 2028.

I do think that the testing phase of TF35K will stretch the calendar by a few years.

We'll see,patience.

 

[2033]

We'll see,patience.

I have thought a lot about this. I estimate that the first delivery of a Kaan with a TF35K will be 2033.

The most tiring thing for us with this engine will be the long duration of the tests. It will take at least 4-5 years.

 

[UcanTost]

What kind of logic do you think we would not even be able to develop and manufacture a normal screws?
The development of an complex high performance engine takes 8-10 years on average, why should this period be different for Turkey?
Are you perhaps suffering from a feeling of inferiority that only the USA, EU and Asia can develop high technology and Turkey should not try?
Thank God there are more people who have the faith and the will to research develop, otherwise we would be a country of absolute backwardness like Afghanistan.

People like them who don't believe in their own abilities have hindered the country's self-esteem for decades. Nation and people alike become successful when they achieve things and this is achieved step by step. If you can't handle that, you shouldn't read any more news in the Defense Industry.

I don't know of any country in the world that hasn't had the same difficulties producing their own high performance engine and the key to the solution is time and perseverance.

You are dragging my comments somewhere else and making up assumptions.

There is a reason Korea went with the KFX program. If you create a airframe that is larger than the F22 with engines less powerfull than a tiny f16, you have created a very inefficient product. It takes countries 8-10 years to create good engines, this goes for countries that CAN make those(Russia/China failed btw). Countries that can't, don't. If Turkey wants a go at it, fine, but the package doesn't make sense.

The plane won't be ready for another 10 years and that is with the f110 engines. The tf35000 isn't guaranteed and wars like Ukraine show that warfare is rapidly changing. I am not even talking about the nepotism that has already rusted the defense industry and the very low funding the project has.

Turkey should build a Toyota Yaris GR and not a Bugatti with 1.6tdi engine.

 

[UcanTost]

All tests done in 2 years(2028 to 2030).
End of 2030 first 12 KAAN's with the new domestic engine.


If i am alive till then we talk again.

Yeah, not going to happen. I don't understand what you guys are smoking.

 

[hugh]

If you create a airframe that is larger than the F22 with engines less powerfull than a tiny f16, you have created a very inefficient product.

KAAN will be lighter than F22 and will use F110s for the first block. The rear IR signature will be a compromise and it won't supercruise. but it will be the best aircraft that a country can buy apart from the F35. does that make KAAN worthless to you? and what is your suggestion exactly?

 

[Turkic]

Can we just put a restriction about how much can we talk nonesensely ? Because let alone an argument, someone ( Yes, I'm talking about you @UcanTost ) is talking without telling why does he talk that way. This forum is not somewhere people share their thoughts without a reason. If you have no argument to talk over, don't tell it. If you will, just say "imo" and don't argue with people about it. And if someone doesn't stop talking none-sense, I think admins should take action then. Otherwise this forum would be full of 'not worth to read' posts.

 

[2033]

Yeah, not going to happen. I don't understand what you guys are smoking.

I am absolutely sure that Turkey will develop the TF35K engine. I don't have the slightest doubt.

Your criticism was about the plane being big and cumbersome, but then you started criticizing the engine. I guess you don't even know what you are criticizing.

TAI managed to develop the Hurjet flawlessly, even though it was the first time. Yes, some parts may be imported, but for a company building a jet aircraft for the first time, it is extraordinarily successful.

If TAI successfully developed the Hurjet, it will certainly succeed with the Kaan, on which it is working meticulously.

 

[blackjack]

A world leader in turbine engines, like Rolls Royce, still hasn’t got a working engine to fit in to the Tempest jet fighter.
The demonstrator plane will have two EJ200 engines powering it.
We need to give some slack to TEI and Tusas. You can not hurry these high end engine developments.

Forget about all the time they had to design a flat nozzle 3d thrust vectoring design. I already have doubts with the photos they are sharing because they don't even display round serrated nozzles most 5th gens display (excluding 2). I don't know about the world leader part if they have not shown the simplest stealth design in their engines like this.

The shitposting in the past on the Su-57 and KAAN nozzles will be long forgotten because it won't compare to a 6th gen(Tempest) flying around with round nozzles (not serrated with teeth even) is going to cause heart attacks if they really are flying a demonstrator in 2027 from what you have shown me.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Forget about all the time they had to design a flat nozzle 3d thrust vectoring design. I already have doubts with the photos they are sharing because they don't even display round serrated nozzles most 5th gens display (excluding 2). I don't know about the world leader part if they have not shown the simplest stealth design in their engines like this.
View attachment 72692 View attachment 72693
The shitposting in the past on the Su-57 and KAAN nozzles will be long forgotten because it won't compare to a 6th gen(Tempest) flying around with round nozzles (not serrated with teeth even) is going to cause heart attacks if they really are flying a demonstrator in 2027 from what you have shown me.

It seems you have not read the complete article. RR and IHI are developing the 6th generation engine that will eventually power the Tempest.

This engine is an industry demonstrator engine, that will fly the plane and give data to engineers in correcting and redesigning the plane should it need, until the correct engine is ready to power the plane. Similar to the F110 engine we are using for the KAAN.
In its current form the EJ200 engine delivers close to 14000lbf. RR has actually manufactured a 16200lbf dry thrust version of this engine and was confident to reach 17500lbf dry thrust. For testing purposes this is adequate.
But the actual engine of the tempest is going to be nowhere near this engine in terms of power and technology . For one thing it’s design particulars included adaptive cycle technology.
So I wouldn’t “judge a book by its cover” yet!

 

[Spitfire9]

A world leader in turbine engines, like Rolls Royce, still hasn’t got a working engine to fit in to the Tempest jet fighter.
The demonstrator plane will have two EJ200 engines powering it.
We need to give some slack to TEI and Tusas. You can not hurry these high end engine developments.

UK Advances Tempest Demonstrator Toward 2027 First Flight | Aviation Week

The UK is signaling Tempest’s lead over the European FCAS with advances in ground test rigs and engine aerodynamic work.

aviationweek.com

View attachment 72685

About RR (in conjunction with others) not having developed an engine for Tempest yet - GCAP has yet to be given the go ahead. It was in project evaluation and definition phase for the its first few years of existence. With the project on course to be launched in 2025, the nature of the engine design chosen should become more apparent. I hope the electrical generating capacity of the engine will be revealed. Little info about the aircraft has been released over the years but I have heard/read that 500Kw-1Mw generating capacity may be required from the engine.