TR Air-Force TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[Huelague]

Temel Kotil said a lot of things that were simply not true, there is a reason all of his timelines changed one after another. Has T929 been delivered to army last year? Because he also said that after that abomination flew for propaganda purposes; and that's just the one that pops in my head, there have been multiple things he said turned out to be bullshit.

Also, whatever happened in WWII or Cold War doesn't mean it can happen now. Complexity of the engine we are building is not same as engines in those times and we are trying to design and build it with minimal previous experience. It doesn't matter how much money you throw at it, unless you're willing to risk watching your 100+ million state of the art 5th gen fighter fall out of the sky, you simply cannot hasten the process beyond a certain point, even if you accept using an underpowered version.

You cannot rush the manufacturing process for the parts, and the time it takes to perfect those complex processes. You cannot rush the thousands of hours of ground testing the engine has to go through, taken apart and put back together again and again. You cannot rush the tests it has to go through in the air, at different altitudes and speeds before it is ready for widespread implementation. And, you cannot just create the necessary workforce out of thin air, there is a limit anyone can be pushed. Beyond that point they'll either break or leave.

Okay Buddy, you said don’t trust a recognized and international experienced engineer like Kotil and more in your words. We will try to do this.

 

[boredaf]

Okay Buddy, you said don’t trust a recognized and international experienced engineer like Kotil and more in your words. We will try to do this.

Lad, go back and read his statements about T929, Hürjet, Hürkuş and Kaan, check the timelines. His credentials mean fuck all when he acted as a propaganda mouthpiece and kept exaggerating things. Were the Gökbey delivered in 2022? Did TAI deliver 3 T929 in 2025? Was the second prototype of Kaan rolled off the line in 2024? These are all things he had said before. Him being an engineer means nothing in this context, he was a merchant hawking his product and government fluffer at the time.

 

[mehmed beg]

All mentioned air craft flew, so it is pretty clear that guy delivered, no?
Now it is different matter if it wasn't on someones birthday.
Of course, anyone can be critiqued but not to extent that person who has something in his CV can be presented as charlatans.
Oh yes, if someone makes something, he can flaunt it, maybe it is not to the best of taste but at least there's something to brag about.

 

[Tornadoss]

Okay Buddy, you said don’t trust a recognized and international experienced engineer like Kotil and more in your words. We will try to do this.

Kotil is a manager, appointed by the government and government using the development of defense industry as propaganda, so a manager can exaggerate things or give very optimistic timelines

 

[Fairon]

All mentioned air craft flew, so it is pretty clear that guy delivered, no?
Now it is different matter if it wasn't on someones birthday.
Of course, anyone can be critiqued but not to extent that person who has something in his CV can be presented as charlatans.
Oh yes, if someone makes something, he can flaunt it, maybe it is not to the best of taste but at least there's something to brag about.

Wasn't the point though. Point was you can't take his timelines as certain.

There was no doubt about the delivery, the doub't was on the dates.

I am fine about the delays though, I am not fine about the lack of transparency. Off course they can't share everthing but acting like there is no problem even after the delays are tiresome.

Nowadays until I see the product materialized, I don't take any given dates seriously and trying to not get excited about any news.

 

[mehmed beg]

Wasn't the point though. Point was you can't take his timelines as certain.

There was no doubt about the delivery, the doub't was on the dates.

I am fine about the delays though, I am not fine about the lack of transparency. Off course they can't share everthing but acting like there is no problem even after the delays are tiresome.

Nowadays until I see the product materialized, I don't take any given dates seriously and trying to not get excited about any news.

I understand but I have never seen " Well done, when things were delivered". Why is that?

 

[boredaf]

All mentioned air craft flew, so it is pretty clear that guy delivered, no?
Now it is different matter if it wasn't on someones birthday.
Of course, anyone can be critiqued but not to extent that person who has something in his CV can be presented as charlatans.
Oh yes, if someone makes something, he can flaunt it, maybe it is not to the best of taste but at least there's something to brag about.

Congratulations on missing the point completely. He had no trouble spouting stuff that had no basis on reality and did it again and again. And what he said about fast tracking the engine is the same, you simply cannot just rush through certain things. So, when he was talking about how things were rushed during WWII or Cold War, it had nothing to do with his CV at all. It was his propagandist side talking, just as when he told things that simply couldn't have been true and naturally didn't come to be.

 

[Fairon]

I understand but I have never seen " Well done, when things were delivered". Why is that?

I don't know because that is not what I experienced here. Everyone is cheering when something delivered.

Saying something might be wrong or raising their concerncs doesn't mean people don't like the defence industry. People doing that because they want it to get better or getting furious because things could be better.(At least in here)

 

[OPTIMUS]

Lad, go back and read his statements about T929, Hürjet, Hürkuş and Kaan, check the timelines. His credentials mean fuck all when he acted as a propaganda mouthpiece and kept exaggerating things. Were the Gökbey delivered in 2022? Did TAI deliver 3 T929 in 2025? Was the second prototype of Kaan rolled off the line in 2024? These are all things he had said before. Him being an engineer means nothing in this context, he was a merchant hawking his product and government fluffer at the time.

If you should see the TEI facilities, you will see more melting furnaces than engines. Everything conceivable was put under embargo.

You are not allowed to work on TF6000 or with TF10000 using a toolkit from F110 GE. any removal of an F110 tool, no matter what it is, must be approved and recorded. They had to first design their own tools, melt them with the right mixture and manufacture them. This is also one of the reasons why KAAN first receives F110 GE engines, because you are allowed to work on these engines with F110 toolkits.

The KOTIL could not foresee all these things, that he first had to spend most of the time on metallurgy. Enormous time, money, and work went into all the nuts, bolts, and toolkits.

That is why he is supposed to be a mouthpiece for the government...????

Just imagine it like this. I give you a Lego box. I tell you to build what is pictured on the box. You open the box. But it’s empty. Please start.

 

[Sanchez]

You are not allowed to work on TF6000 or with TF10000 using a toolkit from F110 GE. any removal of an F110 tool, no matter what it is, must be approved and recorded.

You don't seriously believe this came as a surprise to people up top. Of course you can't, they are literally American toolkits given to Turkey and TEI for a specific purpose, to license build F110s to be put on to F-16s or other contracted aircraft; it's export control in the most basic terms imaginable. Everyone should know this.

 

[OPTIMUS]

You don't seriously believe this came as a surprise to people up top. Of course you can't, they are literally American toolkits given to Turkey and TEI for a specific purpose, to license build F110s to be put on to F-16s or other contracted aircraft; it's export control in the most basic terms imaginable. Everyone should know this.

For politicians, yes. They sell us dreams, while technicians and engineers try to make them come true.

 

[OPTIMUS]

As a very important reason for delays in deliveries, I would dare to call it this: the compulsion and drive of perfectionism. I am absolutely convinced that TEI can deliver the TF6000 tomorrow. Even the TF10000 shortly thereafter.

Ladies and gentlemen,

unfortunately, Turkey is on another planet where the abnormal is unfortunately considered normal. Although the current government works with first-class technicians and bureaucrats, if they fail because a product is delivered and something happens, such as a crash due to a TEI product, hell breaks loose in Turkey. Not just TEI, even all defense projects suffer enormous damage.

Ultimately, we live in a country where our own industry, commercial products, and companies have been boycotted, something that has never happened in human history. Everything is done with absolute caution. Everything possible is criticized harshly and negatively.

For example: why only 3 Altay, really only 3??

I can post monthly production figures for the LEOPARD 2. That would surprise everyone, but no one would be ashamed of how the remarkable German tank industry has managed to achieve so little.

 

[OPTIMUS]

Here is an unofficial message from the German government to Krauss-Maffei:

How long do they need to rebuild the LEOPARD 2?

Answer:

One year for production line construction, another year to select competent suppliers and optimizing, then after one year 30 or 40 LEOPARDS ready for delivery.

 

[OPTIMUS]

 

[2033]

As a very important reason for delays in deliveries, I would dare to call it this: the compulsion and drive of perfectionism. I am absolutely convinced that TEI can deliver the TF6000 tomorrow. Even the TF10000 shortly thereafter.

Ladies and gentlemen,

unfortunately, Turkey is on another planet where the abnormal is unfortunately considered normal. Although the current government works with first-class technicians and bureaucrats, if they fail because a product is delivered and something happens, such as a crash due to a TEI product, hell breaks loose in Turkey. Not just TEI, even all defense projects suffer enormous damage.

Ultimately, we live in a country where our own industry, commercial products, and companies have been boycotted, something that has never happened in human history. Everything is done with absolute caution. Everything possible is criticized harshly and negatively.

For example: why only 3 Altay, really only 3??

I can post monthly production figures for the LEOPARD 2. That would surprise everyone, but no one would be ashamed of how the remarkable German tank industry has managed to achieve so little.

In your opinion, how many years does the defense industry need to reach a point of no return, where it becomes irreversible and independent of politics?

 

[OPTIMUS]

In your opinion, how many years does the defense industry need to reach a point of no return, where it becomes irreversible and independent of politics?

Something like that is impossible in Turkey.

As soon as this government is voted out, the dismantling of the arms industry will begin. Immediately...

This has also been said several times by the opposition.

 

[Sanchez]

For politicians, yes. They sell us dreams, while technicians and engineers try to make them come true.

It's hardly the layman's fault if the government appointed bureaucrats and the government appointed GMs of the state owned companies are unable to explain very, very simple export control contracts to the governments.

if they fail because a product is delivered and something happens, such as a crash due to a TEI product, hell breaks loose in Turkey. Not just TEI, even all defense projects suffer enormous damage.

Meh. Anka-3 crashed. What happened? Nothing. A private firm had a mishap the other day, one civilian worker died in an army test range. We don't even know which company he worked for. Government have full control over media; this is not Germany.

TF6000 is not flying today because making an engine is so much more than reaching the claimed maximum power number.

how many years does the defense industry need to reach a point of no return

There's no "no point of return". 8 of the 10 largest arms firms we have by revenue are state owned. This is not US, there's no MIC lobby in Turkey.

 

[TR_123456]

Something like that is impossible in Turkey.

As soon as this government is voted out, the dismantling of the arms industry will begin. Immediately...

This has also been said several times by the opposition.

Why would they do that and when it is said by the opposition??

 

[OPTIMUS]

It's hardly the layman's fault if the government appointed bureaucrats and the government appointed GMs of the state owned companies are unable to explain very, very simple export control contracts to the governments.


Meh. Anka-3 crashed. What happened? Nothing. A private firm had a mishap the other day, one civilian worker died in an army test range. We don't even know which company he worked for. Government have full control over media; this is not Germany.

TF6000 is not flying today because making an engine is so much more than reaching the claimed maximum power number.

There's no "no point of return". 8 of the 10 largest arms firms we have by revenue are state owned. This is not US, there's no MIC lobby in Turkey.

Let's wait and see. We will all see how quickly and hastily they get to work.

 

[boredaf]

As soon as this government is voted out, the dismantling of the arms industry will begin. Immediately...

Yeah, just this line is enough for me to disregard all of your opinions. Only brainwashed cultists believe something as illogical as this. There isn't a single shred of truth or proof of that, but do go on.