TR Air-Force TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[Yasar_TR]

Indonesia stalls on Turkey's Kaan fighter, demands zero US components before talks resume

The sea was glassy that morning off the coast of Sulawesi, the kind of calm that tricks you into thinking the world is at peace. Fishermen slipped across

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Indonesia ties KAAN fighter jet deal to removal of US components

Indonesia demands ITAR-free KAAN jets to avoid US export controls, pushing full independence and delaying delivery until at least 2036.

aerospaceglobalnews.com

According to these news pieces, Indonesia has put the brakes on the KAAN purchase project. They want solid confirmations that no US components are used in KAAN.

Inside these articles it is insinuated that there are many sub components in Kaan that carry US label. (So much for indigenousness).
Yet many times the officials have insisted that they have been using some foreign parts that can easily be obtained from more than one source.

It will be interesting how this obstacle is handled by Tusas.

 

[Saithan]

I am all for the handbreak. If subcomponents can be sourced from elsewhere. Then do it!

 

[Zafer]

7 years to finish line, looking at past performance only microchips is dicey

 

[Sanchez]

Indonesia stalls on Turkey's Kaan fighter, demands zero US components before talks resume

The sea was glassy that morning off the coast of Sulawesi, the kind of calm that tricks you into thinking the world is at peace. Fishermen slipped across

www.thecustomstudio.co.uk

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As the nurses wheeled me into the sterile operating room, the bright lights blurred my vision. My hand gripped Sarah's, her wedding ring pressing into my palm, until the very...

www.thesocialonmain.com.au

Indonesia ties KAAN fighter jet deal to removal of US components

Indonesia demands ITAR-free KAAN jets to avoid US export controls, pushing full independence and delaying delivery until at least 2036.

aerospaceglobalnews.com

According to these news pieces, Indonesia has put the brakes on the KAAN purchase project. They want solid confirmations that no US components are used in KAAN.

Inside these articles it is insinuated that there are many sub components in Kaan that carry US label. (So much for indigenousness).
Yet many times the officials have insisted that they have been using some foreign parts that can easily be obtained from more than one source.

It will be interesting how this obstacle is handled by Tusas.

First 2 is ai slop; 3rd doesn't add anything new.

We've known from the beginning that Kaan sale to Indonesia hangs on the aircraft being ITAR free; only known component that's under is the engines. We've heard from officials that the aircraft will be delivered to Indonesia with TF35000 from the first day. It's a gamble by TAI and SSB to get it ready for the deadline set out for the deal.

Other subcomponents that may or may not have been restricted under ITAR are all there for the prototypes. Kaan with its new engines will be ITAR-free; that's always been the goal.

 

[Pokemonte13]

They will also need an extensiv credit line for that purchase. Not sure who would provide that maybe the Qataris if it even ends in an actual contract as they are basically buying without money.

 

[Zafer]

Indonesia is one of the fastest growing economies, they can afford Kaan when payment is due.

 

[Huelague]

Inside these articles it is insinuated that there are many sub components in Kaan that carry US label. (So much for indigenousness).

Thats what I meant by micro or macro aspect.

 

[Yasar_TR]

3rd doesn't add anything new

As far as I can see the highlighted points do add a new perspective. Demiroglu and SSB have been blowing the trumpet that the 48 planes sale was a done deal. Well according to news coming in, it is not. In fact unless the Turkish side can give unequivocally the unquestionable proof that the plane is of all ITAR free produced parts, there is no deal.
It is not just the engine that is being questioned. There are some undisclosed sub systems In avionics and electronic equipment with US involvement and there may be parts we don’t know about.

It is suspected that:

Avionics and Electronics: Reports indicate that key systems, including various electronics and avionics, are derived from or manufactured with US technology.

Design and Components: The aircraft's development has utilized Western technology, with some subsystems subject to U.S. export controls, specifically International Traffic in Arms Regulations

Otherwise why are they still negotiating?

“According to reporting by Indonesia’s Cavok, Indonesia’s contract to purchase 48 Turkish KAAN fighter jets is conditional on the aircraft being completely free of components subject to US export controls.

Indonesia has reportedly made clear that it will only proceed with the acquisition if the KAAN is entirely free of components governed by the International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR). If that requirement is enforced strictly, it would effectively rule out deliveries before the mid-2030s at the earliest.

Indonesia’s proposed purchase of 48 aircraft remains under negotiation, and the export-control condition adds significant uncertainty to both timing and feasibility. “

May be our Indonesian members like @Umigami , @NEKO , @satria or @Mandala can enlighten us in more detail about what Indonesia still negotiating with Tusas.

 

[Sanchez]

As far as I can see the highlighted points do add a new perspective. Demiroglu and SSB have been blowing the trumpet that the 48 planes sale was a done deal. Well according to news coming in, it is not. In fact unless the Turkish side can give unequivocally the unquestionable proof that the plane is of all ITAR free produced parts, there is no deal.
It is not just the engine that is being questioned. There are some undisclosed sub systems In avionics and electronic equipment with US involvement and there may be parts we don’t know about.

It is suspected that:

Avionics and Electronics: Reports indicate that key systems, including various electronics and avionics, are derived from or manufactured with US technology.

Design and Components: The aircraft's development has utilized Western technology, with some subsystems subject to U.S. export controls, specifically International Traffic in Arms Regulations

Otherwise why are they still negotiating?

“According to reporting by Indonesia’s Cavok, Indonesia’s contract to purchase 48 Turkish KAAN fighter jets is conditional on the aircraft being completely free of components subject to US export controls.

Indonesia has reportedly made clear that it will only proceed with the acquisition if the KAAN is entirely free of components governed by the International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR). If that requirement is enforced strictly, it would effectively rule out deliveries before the mid-2030s at the earliest.

Indonesia’s proposed purchase of 48 aircraft remains under negotiation, and the export-control condition adds significant uncertainty to both timing and feasibility. “

May be our Indonesian members like @Umigami , @NEKO , @satria or @Mandala can enlighten us in more detail about what Indonesia still negotiating with Tusas.

I disagree; firstly piece mentions nothing. And apart from what any politician or gov appointed bureaucrat says, Indonesia and Turkey signed what is basically an enlarged MoU; not a direct sale. Turkey promised to deliver an ITAR-free aircraft matching Indonesian needs within 120 months, and Indonesia promised to buy 48 of them.

There's also issues about Indonesian bureaucracy about funding and their kinda archaic ways to make business that are to be clarified.

Re ITAR, Kaan does use "western" components; probably a Spanish stick, Brazilian support in landing gears, British chair, design software from Dassault etc. None of this places ITAR restrictions on Kaan; only engines do.

 

[Yasar_TR]

I disagree; firstly piece mentions nothing. And apart from what any politician or gov appointed bureaucrat says, Indonesia and Turkey signed what is basically an enlarged MoU; not a direct sale. Turkey promised to deliver an ITAR-free aircraft matching Indonesian needs within 120 months, and Indonesia promised to buy 48 of them.

There's also issues about Indonesian bureaucracy about funding and their kinda archaic ways to make business that are to be clarified.

Re ITAR, Kaan does use "western" components; probably a Spanish stick, Brazilian support in landing gears, British chair, design software from Dassault etc. None of this places ITAR restrictions on Kaan; only engines do.

I think we will have to agree to disagree. There is a a lot there that is mentioned. No one sits down re negotiating over a provisional sale if there weren’t problems there.
As I have said let us agree to disagree.

 

[Saithan]

I think you are both right, but at the end of the day it's politics and it is what it is.

I am still hoping for the 90+ Hürjet to TuAF to be delivered. I have no expectations of KAAN being delivered to TuAF the next 10 years.

 

[NEKO]

As far as I can see the highlighted points do add a new perspective. Demiroglu and SSB have been blowing the trumpet that the 48 planes sale was a done deal. Well according to news coming in, it is not. In fact unless the Turkish side can give unequivocally the unquestionable proof that the plane is of all ITAR free produced parts, there is no deal.
It is not just the engine that is being questioned. There are some undisclosed sub systems In avionics and electronic equipment with US involvement and there may be parts we don’t know about.

It is suspected that:

Avionics and Electronics: Reports indicate that key systems, including various electronics and avionics, are derived from or manufactured with US technology.

Design and Components: The aircraft's development has utilized Western technology, with some subsystems subject to U.S. export controls, specifically International Traffic in Arms Regulations

Otherwise why are they still negotiating?

“According to reporting by Indonesia’s Cavok, Indonesia’s contract to purchase 48 Turkish KAAN fighter jets is conditional on the aircraft being completely free of components subject to US export controls.

Indonesia has reportedly made clear that it will only proceed with the acquisition if the KAAN is entirely free of components governed by the International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR). If that requirement is enforced strictly, it would effectively rule out deliveries before the mid-2030s at the earliest.

Indonesia’s proposed purchase of 48 aircraft remains under negotiation, and the export-control condition adds significant uncertainty to both timing and feasibility. “

May be our Indonesian members like @Umigami , @NEKO , @satria or @Mandala can enlighten us in more detail about what Indonesia still negotiating with Tusas.

Because of our bitter experience in the past, Indonesia needs ITAR-free fighter.
That is also the reason we bought SU27/30.

With ITAR-free KAAN then Indonesia won't need to get stealth fighter from Russia or China (why China and Russia? Cause they likely won't listen to US if being ordered to embargoes Indonesia, not sure if China is willing to sell tho).

By around 2036 SU27/30 is also become granpa, thus good timing to replace it, and of course its good idea to replace ITAR-free with other ITAR-free. Btw by 2036, not only SU27/30 but Hawk and F16 also become old. Will need replacement.

So I think its pretty reasonable for Indonesia to specifically requested Turkiye for ITAR-free version, tho that mean for Turkiye they can't immediately secure orders from Indonesia.

But anyway there is still high posibility of Indonesia to purchase KAAN, and maybe more than just 48.

 

[alfonsvlora]

Guys, reading this article, it's clear we're in the midst of a geopolitical situation.
Let's let Turkish engineers do their best to build the aircraft and the TF36000 engine... "I believe in Turkey's perseverance and in achieving this goal"... After that, Jakarta will have to finalize the contract, whether they like it or not! The complexity of the subsystems is present in almost all manufacturers... and they know it…
This is just my humble opinion.

 

[Zafer]

Kaan will probably have a smaller infrared visibility than the F35 fortunately

 

[boredaf]

Kaan will probably have a smaller infrared visibility than the F35 fortunately

Based on?

 

[Huelague]

Kaan will probably have a smaller infrared visibility than the F35 fortunately

Where do you get this information?

 

[GoatsMilk]

Because of our bitter experience in the past, Indonesia needs ITAR-free fighter.
That is also the reason we bought SU27/30.

With ITAR-free KAAN then Indonesia won't need to get stealth fighter from Russia or China (why China and Russia? Cause they likely won't listen to US if being ordered to embargoes Indonesia, not sure if China is willing to sell tho).

By around 2036 SU27/30 is also become granpa, thus good timing to replace it, and of course its good idea to replace ITAR-free with other ITAR-free. Btw by 2036, not only SU27/30 but Hawk and F16 also become old. Will need replacement.

So I think its pretty reasonable for Indonesia to specifically requested Turkiye for ITAR-free version, tho that mean for Turkiye they can't immediately secure orders from Indonesia.

But anyway there is still high posibility of Indonesia to purchase KAAN, and maybe more than just 48.

When you see zionists placing bombs in pagers, it would be pure negligence for Turks to risk american parts in their national fighter without all of those parts being inspected from top to bottom.

So i can't really blame any nation, let alone Muslim majority nations worrying about these things.

 

[Zafer]

Where do you get this information?

F35 is powered by a single engine that runs hot. This engine had wear problems because of this. On the other hand Kaan is powered by twin engines which don't have to run that hot as their combined power is more than enough to power the plane. As both the plane and the engine are still in development they have a good chance of not going into too hot to conceal territory. It is not guarantied but being twin engined gives an advantage in this case.

On the other hand heat is also generated by friction with air on the fuselage. If infrared sensors are sensitive enough to detect friction heat which is probably smaller than engine heat then no plane has an advantage in higher speed flight unless it has an ultra frictionless body.

@Huelague

 

[NEKO]

KAAN with US engine = the exhaust nozzle in not stealth coated right?

Why not make it covered like F22 but without the thrust vectoring? Just for the covering.

KAAN with US engine is less stealthy same with KF21.

 

[Zafer]

KAAN with US engine = the exhaust nozzle in not stealth coated right?

Why not make it covered like F22 but without the thrust vectoring? Just for the covering.

KAAN with US engine is less stealthy same with KF21.

Hopefully Kaan engine will come sooner rather than later