TR Air-Force TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[Huelague]

It was never explicitly mentioned

It was mentioned by T. Kotil.

 

[Oublious]

FCAS is dead......

 

[Merzifonlu]

FCAS is dead......

It didn't surprise me. An arms partnership involving Germany is very difficult to sustain. Because Germany isn't an independent country. GCAP is next, that program will also collapse, you'll see. This time, the reason for the collapse will be Japan. Japan will change its mind halfway through and turn to the F-47.

If it were possible, things would have progressed much more smoothly in a Turkey+UK+Spain+Italy partnership. But this partnership will never happen because of UK.

 

[Oublious]

It didn't surprise me. An arms partnership involving Germany is very difficult to sustain. Because Germany isn't an independent country. GCAP is next, that program will also collapse, you'll see. This time, the reason for the collapse will be Japan. Japan will change its mind halfway through and turn to the F-47.

If it were possible, things would have progressed much more smoothly in a Turkey+UK+Spain+Italy partnership. But this partnership will never happen because of UK.

They want to use KSA as a money pit for ther project, what i have read about GCAP is that Japan do not want share ther 33% work. Japan told to Italians and British you can share your work with KSA . KSA can invest only, so if Germany goes to GCAP what will Japan say? The scenario what you write can happen to, ther is to much people involved thats why ther is only 1 captain needed. Partners with this scale projects is difficult.

 

[Sanchez]

It was mentioned by T. Kotil.

Its location?

 

[Merzifonlu]

Their is to much people involved thats why ther is only 1 captain needed. Partners with this scale projects is difficult.

The problem isn't the lack of "a captain" in these projects. The UK could be the captain for GCAP, and France for FCAS, if needed. The problem is that the other two main partners, Germany and Japan, are extremely unreliable. These countries are very vulnerable to pressure from the USA. The USA could easily sabotage both projects by co-opting them.

Oh, and by the way, these "captains" also have their own problem from our perspective. They are very arrogant towards us.

 

[Sanchez]

Oh, and by the way, these "captains" also have their own problem from our perspective. They are very arrogant towards us.

That's not all related to how the programs are run.

The UK could be the captain for GCAP, and France for FCAS, if needed. The problem is that the other two main partners, Germany and Japan, are extremely unreliable

Why would Germany fund development and pour billions into it to create a jet for French needs without answering German needs. This is the gist of the issue. They are supposed to be equal partners; why should France take the lead on a project and drive it towards a CATOBAR and nuclear capable jet when Germany doesn't need any of that.

 

[hugh]

It didn't surprise me. An arms partnership involving Germany is very difficult to sustain. Because Germany isn't an independent country. GCAP is next, that program will also collapse, you'll see. This time, the reason for the collapse will be Japan. Japan will change its mind halfway through and turn to the F-47.

If it were possible, things would have progressed much more smoothly in a Turkey+UK+Spain+Italy partnership. But this partnership will never happen because of UK.

what partnership model could we offer when we're so far in development? The aircraft's sensor suit is already developed, its engine is in CDR and we started printing KAAN prototypes. Time will tell but maybe having no partner was a blessing for us. Having one chef in the kitchen gives us tremendous speed of execution compared to european projects. It worked well for us so far.

 

[Huelague]

Its location?

He doesnt say anything about that.

 

[Huelague]

It didn't surprise me. An arms partnership involving Germany is very difficult to sustain. Because Germany isn't an independent country. GCAP is next, that program will also collapse, you'll see. This time, the reason for the collapse will be Japan. Japan will change its mind halfway through and turn to the F-47.

If it were possible, things would have progressed much more smoothly in a Turkey+UK+Spain+Italy partnership. But this partnership will never happen because of UK.

Dont forget Japan.

 

[Huelague]

what partnership model could we offer when we're so far in development? The aircraft's sensor suit is already developed, its engine is in CDR and we started printing KAAN prototypes. Time will tell but maybe having no partner was a blessing for us. Having one chef in the kitchen gives us tremendous speed of execution compared to european projects. It worked well for us so far.

He talked about a 6 Gen. aircraft , not Kaan.

 

[boredaf]

Any idea how fast jets are matured from prototype to serial production?

How is that relevant to the engine conversation? If you want to compare timelines, check how long does it take to design, build, test (both on the ground and in air) then start producing a jet engine, especially one that is supposed to power a 5th gen fighter, high enough numbers.

 

[Angry Turk !!!]

what partnership model could we offer when we're so far in development? The aircraft's sensor suit is already developed, its engine is in CDR and we started printing KAAN prototypes. Time will tell but maybe having no partner was a blessing for us. Having one chef in the kitchen gives us tremendous speed of execution compared to european projects. It worked well for us so far.

Im my opinion, Türkiye should do KAAN on its own, like it did for now. I'm absolutely against sharing Tech with anyone. Türkiye must do it alone.

 

[Sanchez]

Time will tell but maybe having no partner was a blessing for us. Having one chef in the kitchen gives us tremendous speed of execution compared to european projects. It worked well for us so far.

We need production partners and customers, not development partners. We most certainly need customers who can be production partners to bear the brunt of production costs.

 

[Huelague]

How is that relevant to the engine conversation? If you want to compare timelines, check how long does it take to design, build, test (both on the ground and in air) then start producing a jet engine, especially one that is supposed to power a 5th gen fighter, high enough numbers.

Because T.Kotil told some very interesting things about timeliness in aviation during WW2 and Cold War. They can accelerate the process if they want and if needed.

 

[Spitfire9]

It didn't surprise me. An arms partnership involving Germany is very difficult to sustain. Because Germany isn't an independent country. GCAP is next, that program will also collapse, you'll see. This time, the reason for the collapse will be Japan. Japan will change its mind halfway through and turn to the F-47.

If it were possible, things would have progressed much more smoothly in a Turkey+UK+Spain+Italy partnership. But this partnership will never happen because of UK.

I don't see GCAP dying soon, assuming it gets launched. Around 50 billion USD development funds are agreed and should already be guaranteed to allow development to proceed. The hold up is the UK needing to define its long term investment plans for military equipment before it will confirm its GCAP funding. That investment plan is running late.

Japan wants GCAP in production in time to replace its F-2 from 2035, so unless development problems seriously delay the project I don't see Japan leaving the programme and switching to buying F-47.

 

[boredaf]

Because T.Kotil told some very interesting things about timeliness in aviation during WW2 and Cold War. They can accelerate the process if they want and if needed.

Temel Kotil said a lot of things that were simply not true, there is a reason all of his timelines changed one after another. Has T929 been delivered to army last year? Because he also said that after that abomination flew for propaganda purposes; and that's just the one that pops in my head, there have been multiple things he said turned out to be bullshit.

Also, whatever happened in WWII or Cold War doesn't mean it can happen now. Complexity of the engine we are building is not same as engines in those times and we are trying to design and build it with minimal previous experience. It doesn't matter how much money you throw at it, unless you're willing to risk watching your 100+ million state of the art 5th gen fighter fall out of the sky, you simply cannot hasten the process beyond a certain point, even if you accept using an underpowered version.

You cannot rush the manufacturing process for the parts, and the time it takes to perfect those complex processes. You cannot rush the thousands of hours of ground testing the engine has to go through, taken apart and put back together again and again. You cannot rush the tests it has to go through in the air, at different altitudes and speeds before it is ready for widespread implementation. And, you cannot just create the necessary workforce out of thin air, there is a limit anyone can be pushed. Beyond that point they'll either break or leave.

 

[Huelague]

Temel Kotil said a lot of things that were simply not true, there is a reason all of his timelines changed one after another. Has T929 been delivered to army last year? Because he also said that after that abomination flew for propaganda purposes; and that's just the one that pops in my head, there have been multiple things he said turned out to be bullshit.

Also, whatever happened in WWII or Cold War doesn't mean it can happen now. Complexity of the engine we are building is not same as engines in those times and we are trying to design and build it with minimal previous experience. It doesn't matter how much money you throw at it, unless you're willing to risk watching your 100+ million state of the art 5th gen fighter fall out of the sky, you simply cannot hasten the process beyond a certain point, even if you accept using an underpowered version.

You cannot rush the manufacturing process for the parts, and the time it takes to perfect those complex processes. You cannot rush the thousands of hours of ground testing the engine has to go through, taken apart and put back together again and again. You cannot rush the tests it has to go through in the air, at different altitudes and speeds before it is ready for widespread implementation. And, you cannot just create the necessary workforce out of thin air, there is a limit anyone can be pushed. Beyond that point they'll either break or leave.

Okay Buddy, you said don’t trust a recognized and international experienced engineer like Kotil and more in your words. We will try to do this.

 

[boredaf]

Okay Buddy, you said don’t trust a recognized and international experienced engineer like Kotil and more in your words. We will try to do this.

Lad, go back and read his statements about T929, Hürjet, Hürkuş and Kaan, check the timelines. His credentials mean fuck all when he acted as a propaganda mouthpiece and kept exaggerating things. Were the Gökbey delivered in 2022? Did TAI deliver 3 T929 in 2025? Was the second prototype of Kaan rolled off the line in 2024? These are all things he had said before. Him being an engineer means nothing in this context, he was a merchant hawking his product and government fluffer at the time.

 

[mehmed beg]

All mentioned air craft flew, so it is pretty clear that guy delivered, no?
Now it is different matter if it wasn't on someones birthday.
Of course, anyone can be critiqued but not to extent that person who has something in his CV can be presented as charlatans.
Oh yes, if someone makes something, he can flaunt it, maybe it is not to the best of taste but at least there's something to brag about.