TR Air-Force TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[Yasar_TR]

What secrets would those be?

View attachment 83798

View attachment 83799

Those flaps primarily help control pitch; if the nose is to face upwards or downwards. Also gives aerodynamic stability to the plane.
Stealthy planes are inherently very unstable anyway. So they need very good fly-by-wire computer control programs to fly straight. To do that they will need very effective actuators that will respond with very high precision very quickly.

On Kaan these stabilisers are exceptionally large and hence heavy. Certain technologies can be applied (like carbon fibre composites to bring down weight.

In size they are not that much bigger than F22’s. But F22 uses 2D TVC to help with pitch control. In KAAN all the work is expected from these stabilators. Therefore much more excessive stress will be applied to them and to the actuators. But we are not privy to enough knowledge about what precautions Tusas has taken to overcome these difficulties. So unless Tusas states problems, we should not lose confidence in our engineers and Tusas.
As stated above KAAN is a work in progress. It will still be a work in progress when we have 20 or 40 of them in our inventory.

 

[Şok Tedavisi]

Those flaps primarily help control pitch; if the nose is to face upwards or downwards. Also gives aerodynamic stability to the plane.
Stealthy planes are inherently very unstable anyway. So they need very good fly-by-wire computer control programs to fly straight. To do that they will need very effective actuators that will respond with very high precision very quickly.

On Kaan these stabilisers are exceptionally large and hence heavy. Certain technologies can be applied (like carbon fibre composites to bring down weight.

In size they are not that much bigger than F22’s. But F22 uses 2D TVC to help with pitch control. In KAAN all the work is expected from these stabilators. Therefore much more excessive stress will be applied to them and to the actuators. But we are not privy to enough knowledge about what precautions Tusas has taken to overcome these difficulties. So unless Tusas states problems, we should not lose confidence in our engineers and Tusas.
As stated above KAAN is a work in progress. It will still be a work in progress when we have 20 or 40 of them in our inventory.

Yeah a new design will be needed to fix those sadly.

 

[Huelague]

So looks like Kaan is not going to shotdown any F35s like you were saying for years zafer

Does this information pleased you?

 

[Şok Tedavisi]

Does this information pleased you?

Yes, now you people learned how hard it is to produce a fighter jet, one mistake can cost you everything so lets say goodbye to 2030 plans, even If they fly them there will be crashes which is a bad publicity, TUSAS needs to redesign the KAAN so It will be safer for our pilots meanwhile they can produce the subsytems and test them for good not political stunts.

 

[Huelague]

you people

it seems and hoping the project must fail.

 

[Şok Tedavisi]

it seems and hoping the project must fail.

Yeah "not believing everything said by tusas"

 

[Samba]

What bad intent could i have here?
Why come up with lame excuses?
The whole world can see the dumb mistakes,even after being warned many times they did nothing.
Would you rather like it when the KAAN becomes a laughing stock,''the Turks with their decades in aviation couldnt produce a working fighter jet,made a rookie mistake''.
if we dont argue about it who will?
They need to fix it ASAP or be ridiculed.

I could not explain myself well enough I guess. If something is wrong, which is very possible, just saying "bla bla we told them", "bla bla they told them..." won't cut it. You need to be specific. I keep asking how is it fundementally different than F22 F35 SU57. It should be such an easy question for a guy with the knowledge and experience. I don't know it. He may be 100% correct. But this is not the way to present your claim. F22 also has very high stabilizers. Just because KAAN has 20cm higher ones means it is a huge problem? (numbers are fictional) or only F22 could solve the issue KAAN is trying to solve and it is deemed impossible? What is the case here? This is all I am asking.

 

[Samba]

Those flaps primarily help control pitch; if the nose is to face upwards or downwards. Also gives aerodynamic stability to the plane.
Stealthy planes are inherently very unstable anyway. So they need very good fly-by-wire computer control programs to fly straight. To do that they will need very effective actuators that will respond with very high precision very quickly.

On Kaan these stabilisers are exceptionally large and hence heavy. Certain technologies can be applied (like carbon fibre composites to bring down weight.

In size they are not that much bigger than F22’s. But F22 uses 2D TVC to help with pitch control. In KAAN all the work is expected from these stabilators. Therefore much more excessive stress will be applied to them and to the actuators. But we are not privy to enough knowledge about what precautions Tusas has taken to overcome these difficulties. So unless Tusas states problems, we should not lose confidence in our engineers and Tusas.
As stated above KAAN is a work in progress. It will still be a work in progress when we have 20 or 40 of them in our inventory.

This is what is called "Detailed Post"

 

[2033]

The flight delay is causing unnecessary arguments. I hope our KAAN can fly this week.

 

[Polat]

The flight delay is causing unnecessary arguments. I hope our KAAN can fly this week.

I blame the government for this one to be honest. I would rather hear them tell that the Prototype will fly somewhere in 2027, rather than constantly moving the date with the hope that its flight ready.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Yeah a new design will be needed to fix those sadly.

Bro, not necessarily!
We don’t know the details of this situation in full.

There is a post by @OPTIMUS that is as it stands -no disrespect to our member- no more than hearsay. But it is a valid technical concern that such a big stabilator will be difficult to manage and will be subjected to intense stresses under heavy manoeuvring. Finding correct actuators to move such large panels under heavy stresses is a difficult engineering problem to solve.

Delays in P1 flight naturally will bring to minds of many certain technical difficulties and hence various reasons are thought of. But as I said before, we do not know the whole story.

Outside sources that were supposed to deliver the correct actuators could easily find technical reasons, delay their delivery and/or reject delivery to stall P1 first flight. We have seen this before.

This doesn’t mean Tusas don’t have the solution. P0 flew with even bigger stabilators. But it did not have to perform a 360 degree roll or make a 9g turn at supersonic speed. This plane will have to do all that and more. The simulation computers will evaluate Altinay’s actuators and once it is given the green light first flight will take place. Altinay would not have taken on the responsibility to produce those actuators if they were not certain they could manufacture them.
Tusas too, will not jeopardise the flight if they are not sure those actuators and stabilators will work. Heck! TurAF won’t accept that plane if they can’t sort out such a major problem. We saw what happened with Hurkus.

My angle on it is, have confidence in Tusas and wait and see!

 

[Saithan]

So, any guess of what we might face ?

Are the stabiliser such a big problem that KAAN might never enter production. Or would it be prudent to say that the changes could be so big that KAAN would be just another 4,5 gen plane and not stealth. Maybe even just a 4th gen.

How much do they need to cut off to make it viable ?

 

[Yasar_TR]

Please stay on topic. Do not divulge in to unnecessary discussions.
Administration found @OPTIMUS ’s German post of value and had it auto translated and he has been informed to make sure posts are in English.

 

[Şok Tedavisi]

Bro, not necessarily!
We don’t know the details of this situation in full.

There is a post by @OPTIMUS that is as it stands -no disrespect to our member- no more than hearsay. But it is a valid technical concern that such a big stabilator will be difficult to manage and will be subjected to intense stresses under heavy manoeuvring. Finding correct actuators to move such large panels under heavy stresses is a difficult engineering problem to solve.

Delays in P1 flight naturally will bring to minds of many certain technical difficulties and hence various reasons are thought of. But as I said before, we do not know the whole story.

Outside sources that were supposed to deliver the correct actuators could easily find technical reasons, delay their delivery and/or reject delivery to stall P1 first flight. We have seen this before.

This doesn’t mean Tusas don’t have the solution. P0 flew with even bigger stabilators. But it did not have to perform a 360 degree roll or make a 9g turn at supersonic speed. This plane will have to do all that and more. The simulation computers will evaluate Altinay’s actuators and once it is given the green light first flight will take place. Altinay would not have taken on the responsibility to produce those actuators if they were not certain they could manufacture them.
Tusas too, will not jeopardise the flight if they are not sure those actuators and stabilators will work. Heck! TurAF won’t accept that plane if they can’t sort out such a major problem. We saw what happened with Hurkus.

My angle on it is, have confidence in Tusas and wait and see!

When It is politics army does accept faulty stuff sadly, lets not forget first batch of TB2s were faulty and couldnt work under heavy EW in Syria but they fixed it afterwards, I have my confidence on Tusas after seeing Hürjet and Hürkuş II but we all are mortals in the end shit happens you know, even americans had to deal with faulty designs etc. we shouldn't rush anything for the good of project and for our airforce

 

[Şok Tedavisi]

We can also calm down, even If it takes 10 years TurAF will and still going to be superior against any Neighbouring airforce thanks to our fleet of F16s, Typhoon jets and our sophiscated drone network (we just need to mass produce a lot of layered AD)