TR TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

borchadinho

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TUSAS's new Pakistani engineer from Michigan University.


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Is this normal? To publicly announce every detail of what you are working on for such a vital project?

Not trolling but I hope no under the table deals involved in this, pockets filled of certain family members, politicians and generals to open office, infrastructure, pay to train another countries work force and lose that brain power 5 - 10 years later when they move companies.

I have question marks, what do we get out of this outside of economy of scale with a country that is technology significantly behind us, will likely never join the project for political reasons, if it wanted to cant afford the jet and is very dependent on China and the Gulf. There is a reason the T-129 deal fell through, the country is known for duplicity and blackmail.

Also, judging by profile we could have employed these people brought them to Turkey instead. Where they can work with and train junior Turkish engineers.

I just hope they are not working on anything critical.
 

Zafer

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Is this normal? To publicly announce every detail of what you are working on for such a vital project?

Not trolling but I hope no under the table deals involved in this, pockets filled of certain family members, politicians and generals to open office, infrastructure, pay to train another countries work force and lose that brain power 5 - 10 years later when they move companies.

I have question marks, what do we get out of this outside of economy of scale with a country that is technology significantly behind us, will likely never join the project for political reasons, if it wanted to cant afford the jet and is very dependent on China and the Gulf. There is a reason the T-129 deal fell through, the country is known for duplicity and blackmail.

Also, judging by profile we could have employed these people brought them to Turkey instead. Where they can work with and train junior Turkish engineers.

I just hope they are not working on anything critical.
What country's brain-pool would you rather source engineers from instead?
 
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fire starter

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Is this normal? To publicly announce every detail of what you are working on for such a vital project?

Not trolling but I hope no under the table deals involved in this, pockets filled of certain family members, politicians and generals to open office, infrastructure, pay to train another countries work force and lose that brain power 5 - 10 years later when they move companies.

I have question marks, what do we get out of this outside of economy of scale with a country that is technology significantly behind us, will likely never join the project for political reasons, if it wanted to cant afford the jet and is very dependent on China and the Gulf. There is a reason the T-129 deal fell through, the country is known for duplicity and blackmail.

Also, judging by profile we could have employed these people brought them to Turkey instead. Where they can work with and train junior Turkish engineers.

I just hope they are not working on anything critical.
it was agreement signed between Turkey and pakistan to hire pakistani engineers , Anyways if u want your projects to be safe, secure and free from embargo then better keep Pakistanis out of it.
 

Yasar_TR

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It seems Mete Yarar was very impressed with the sight of the TFX in Tusas.
I wish he had shared few pictures too! (Mind you I don’t know how much background he has with aerospace engineering to comment on the plane itself, apart from looking at it and feeling impressed! He was a major in the Turkish land forces infantry)
I guess it is not long before I Demir or T Kotil making statements.
 
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Is this normal? To publicly announce every detail of what you are working on for such a vital project?
It is not, he shouldn't have shared the position and project he is working in. I am not sure what kind of clearance levels are provided by SSB to work in such projects for foreigners but i have had friends in US or UK who worked on projects which required a clearance level that forbid them from leaving the country for straight 5 years, some were only for a year, some were "3 years after project completion", i haven't seen anything such in TR. People work in top-secret projects and yet keep moving in and out during their involvement.

We should bump up those security measures.
 

MADDOG

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It seems Mete Yarar was very impressed with the sight of the TFX in Tusas.
I wish he had shared few pictures too! (Mind you I don’t know how much background he has with aerospace engineering to comment on the plane itself, apart from looking at it and feeling impressed! He was a major in the Turkish land forces infantry)
I guess it is not long before I Demir or T Kotil making statements.
Yep, and in the video he shared he spoke of how massive the TF-X is (well the parts of her at least, the thing isn't assembled yet). Apart from that he didn't say much else. Kinda expected him to give us a tour while he was there. We've been waiting for 12 years... I hoped we could get a glimpse of her as well.
 

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I am starting a position at "Türk Hacailik ve Uzay Sanayii Pakistan" just look at the photo...

As we know TUSAS has a office in the National Science & Technology Park NSTP (Pakistan) we also know that the same office is working with the National University of Science and Technology (NUST) in Islamabad
1659615181426.png
 

borchadinho

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What country's brain-pool would you rather source engineers from instead?

I said bring them to Turkey, where you can vet, keep tabs, protect those involved in and the project more safely.

Your outsourcing parts of the project to a country that has 0 stake in it and technologically behind you, is known for stealing, leaking such projects.

Don't be suprised in the future when Pakistani tweeter handles are leaking the project details bragging how they built the "TPF-X"

It is not, he shouldn't have shared the position and project he is working in. I am not sure what kind of clearance levels are provided by SSB to work in such projects for foreigners but i have had friends in US or UK who worked on projects which required a clearance level that forbid them from leaving the country for straight 5 years, some were only for a year, some were "3 years after project completion", i haven't seen anything such in TR. People work in top-secret projects and yet keep moving in and out during their involvement.

We should bump up those security measures.

I had to sign an NDA i wont share anything I see, learn or "hear" inside the compound, provide whole sülale history for simply walking inside a well known arms manufacturer.

I know of such arrangement hence asked to confirm but ummah lovers here are too brain dead to understand.

If people are leaking or providing this much exposure at this stage then you figure the rest, it isnt vital enough for them on a personal level, imagine when they are offered bags of dollars and free holidays.

it was agreement signed between Turkey and pakistan to hire pakistani engineers , Anyways if u want your projects to be safe, secure and free from embargo then better keep Pakistanis out of it.

Not worried about embargoes since Pakistan will never be a part of the project in a significant way and likely to trapped by China and the Gulf by the time TF-X realises.

What I am worried about is security and loss of knowledge which could have been passed down to Turkish engineers.

The guy is clearly clever academically, I had a chance to review some of his work and blogs. In his blog he states, paraphrasing here.

Pakistan can not build AZM FGFA but can use the knowledge gained from TF-X too build a loyal wingman style drone.

Clearly a sunk cost.

I understand Qatar (high skiled, lots of money), I understand Malaysia (jumping stone to Asia) I don't understand what we get from Pakistan.

I’m not sure why you see the need for there to be Turkish only engineers.

Come to America and see how many foreigners from 3rd world countries are working in top aerospace and defense companies.

Hell, I could probably work at Lockheed/Raytheon with a degree.

Ask those foreign engineers in America how easy it is for them to move around jobs, to another country, outside Western sphere. You will have your answer.

They are invested to the companies and more importantly to America.
 
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Lool

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Is this normal? To publicly announce every detail of what you are working on for such a vital project?

Not trolling but I hope no under the table deals involved in this, pockets filled of certain family members, politicians and generals to open office, infrastructure, pay to train another countries work force and lose that brain power 5 - 10 years later when they move companies.

I have question marks, what do we get out of this outside of economy of scale with a country that is technology significantly behind us, will likely never join the project for political reasons, if it wanted to cant afford the jet and is very dependent on China and the Gulf. There is a reason the T-129 deal fell through, the country is known for duplicity and blackmail.

Also, judging by profile we could have employed these people brought them to Turkey instead. Where they can work with and train junior Turkish engineers.

I just hope they are not working on anything critical.
Who said that their country will join MMU program? That guy is an engineer who graduated from Michigan University ffs! I assure you that such college isnt in Pakistan but in the bloody USA; therefore, considering his country circumstances, the possibility of such an individual being the cream of the top is likely very high

Having him work in TAI is teh right choice. Tbh the naivity of the ppl in this forum bloody fqing hurts! Do you want to know something funny, the engineers Turkey outsourced from BAE to aid in MMU design are Pakistani in origin FFS! Yes! That means that Turkey's iconic fighter is literally designed by Pakistani-origin engineers working in BAE, looool

If BAE can do so, then why cant TAI do the same
And ppl in this forum wonder why Turkey doesnt have a decent political opposition; it is because of such mediocre thoughts that degrades a person's brain.

There is no difference between an Indian, Chinese, Pakistani, Iranian, American, Turkish or British individuals etc.... the only difference lies in whether you are properly using the thing called a "brain" on the top of your head or not


And yes, it is normal for him to announce such things since his job isnt that critical in the first place; the guy will develop the control system of the TFX which isnt something groundbreaking as the USA, Israel, Western nations, China, and Russia already produces state of the art control systems

The deal is a win-win to both parties; the Pakistani engineer will impart all tye wisdom he gained from Michigan University to Turkish engineers in Turkey and in return he will gain knowledge from Turkish engineers to aid his country and this isnt something bad

I actually endorse TAI's endeavour to suck all the qualified engineers from nations that doesnt have a decent defense industry infrastructure since TAI's growth is way too fast for the domestic educational institution to keep up with and having different perspectives will improve competiiton and growth; thus, improving overall product quality
 
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Cabatli_TR

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Engineering studies are carried out in dozens of different engineering disciplines for a complex 5th generation aircraft. The thousands of works done in these engineering disciplines is managed by thousands of engineers working in different fields. These engineers are also classified according to a certain hierarchy within themselves and are responsible for the design and development of the parts/sections they undertake according to the predicted dimensions, features or resistance to certain stresses (if it is a solid part). As the importance of the systems increases, the core engineer staff who have certain qualifications and permissions in the company's pool, come into play. Studies with a high degree of sensitivity and importance remain within the company and aren't undertaken by foreign companies or engineers without special permission unless necessary. For exm, Only for the software of TFX more than 20 million lines of code will be written and approximately 400-500 Turkish engineers with special permissions will work only for this software so It is meaningless to assume that a foreign engineer involved in the design of a piece in the TfX' Wing or fuselage will have mastered the whole mystery of TfX fuselage or design lines and to comment accordingly, or comments made by assuming that an engineer who undertakes a specific task in the design of the aircraft's avionic systems will master the aircraft's brain, mission computers or source codes are likewise unrealistic.

No company takes steps to jeopardize its own strategic project and this information is secured with NATO-level privacy and data protection systems within itself. You can trust on Turkish companies to determine which tasks will be managed by which engineers' or coordinators and who will do what work. These things don't proceed with the straight logic as it is thought by some members above. We are talking about the most strategic project of the country and there are engineers working in this field developing softwares. Those are the engineers working in company who care about data security as much as you do.
 
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Lool

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Clearly your AK brain has comprehension issues. I said bring them to Turkey, where you can vet, keep tabs, protect those involved in and the project more safely.

Your outsourcing parts of the project to a country that has 0 stake in it and technologically behind you, is known for stealing, leaking such projects.

Don't be suprised in the future when Pakistani tweeter handles are leaking the project details bragging how they built the "TPF-X"



I had to sign an NDA i wont share anything I see, learn or "hear" inside the compound, provide whole sülale history for simply walking inside a well known arms manufacturer.

I know of such arrangement hence asked to confirm but ummah lovers here are too brain dead to understand.

If people are leaking or providing this much exposure at this stage then you figure the rest, it isnt vital enough for them on a personal level, imagine when they are offered bags of dollars and free holidays.



Not worried about embargoes since Pakistan will never be a part of the project in a significant way and likely to trapped by China and the Gulf by the time TF-X realises.

What I am worried about is security and loss of knowledge which could have been passed down to Turkish engineers.

The guy is clearly clever academically, I had a chance to review some of his work and blogs. In his blog he states, paraphrasing here.

Pakistan can not build AZM FGFA but can use the knowledge gained from TF-X too build a loyal wingman style drone.

Clearly a sunk cost.

I understand Qatar (high skiled, lots of money), I understand Malaysia (jumping stone to Asia) I don't understand what we get from Pakistan.



Ask those foreign engineers in America how easy it is for them to move around jobs, to another country, outside Western sphere. You will have your answer.

They are invested to the companies and more importantly to America.
Ok, let me tell you something first

I assure you that if you believe that Qatari engineers wont spill TFX secrets, then I assure you that such Pakistani engineers wont as well

And yes, many arabs working in Lockheed Martin etc are invested in such companies since their home nation doesnt have the necessary infrastructure for them to carry their jobs in. 👇
For example, if you are a Turkish nuclear engineer who graduated from the USA and want to work in Turkey, sadly there are no nuclear plants or research facilities within the countey for you to work in; thus, you will stay in the USA and find a place where you can carry out what you learned to earn a living obviously

This is the same for Pakistan, Qatar etc..... since they dont have the necessary infrastructure for their engineers to work in
 
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borchadinho

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Ok, let me tell you something first
Arabs are the most traitorous ppl in this bloody planet; one day on your side and the other stabbing you from the back. I dont wanna delve in history a lot but I assure you that if you believe that Qatari engineers wont spill TFX secrets, then I assure you that such Pakistani engineers wont as well

I'm sure they assured the UK the same while leaking Nuclear secrets. Sure they assured the US the same while leaking F-16 secrets. Quite sure that's why US doesn't sell them engines.

Will you be consistent and say the same generalisation about Pakistanis?

And yes, many arabs working in Lockheed Martin etc are invested in such companies since their home nation doesnt have the necessary infrastructure for them to carry their jobs in. 👇
For example, if you are a Turkish nuclear engineer who graduated from the USA and want to work in Turkey, sadly there are no nuclear plants or research facilities within the countey for you to work in; thus, you will stay in the USA and find a place where you can carry out what you learned to earn a living obviously

This is the same for Pakistan, Qatar etc..... since they dont have the necessary infrastructure for their engineers to work in

Qatar has one of the most educated work forces in the world, best education money can buy, with potential to invest in TF-X and buy jets.

Does Pakistan?
 

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It is completely normal to be concerned. We are not talking about a simple fighter jet after all, but one of the most, if not, the most critical project of Turkish Armed Forces. But I still trust TAI. I’m sure they thought of everything.

Regarding that Pakistani engineer, he will most probably work for TAI in Pakistan. He hopes to work on the TF-X project but that doesn’t mean he’ll get the job tho.
 

borchadinho

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It is completely normal to be concerned. We are not talking about a simple fighter jet after all, but one of the most, if not, the most critical project of Turkish Armed Forces. But I still trust TAI. I’m sure they thought of everything.

Regarding that Pakistani engineer, he will most probably work for TAI in Pakistan. He hopes to work on the TF-X project but that doesn’t mean he’ll get the job tho.

Simple question "is it normal to share such details" and "what do we gain from this we could have employed them in Turkey, since they are probably American citizens" and Ummahtards rage "OMGz Pakistan Dosti Turkiye, Cive Cive"

Notice they never address any points, just go on rage as if Pakistan is the tech hub of the world.
 

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I had to sign an NDA i wont share anything I see, learn or "hear" inside the compound, provide whole sülale history for simply walking inside a well known arms manufacturer.
NDAs are a joke, nothing else, for foreign companies in the west too. If you are a young engineer still be careful.
 

I_Love_F16

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Simple question "is it normal to share such details"

Personally I would refrain to share such info.

"what do we gain from this we could have employed them in Turkey, since they are probably American citizens"

Like I said above, he will most probably work in TAI’s office in Pakistan. My assumption is based on the picture ‘’TURKISH AEROSPACE INDUSTRIES PAKISTAN’’, but maybe he’ll work in Turkiye. Who knows.
 

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How is this thing gonna fly this year man? Mind boggling. I really do wonder how long they will be doing the ground tests.
2 planes are going to be used on testing, one will be doing ground tests while the other will be prepared for the flight
 

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I'm sure they assured the UK the same while leaking Nuclear secrets. Sure they assured the US the same while leaking F-16 secrets. Quite sure that's why US doesn't sell them engines.

Will you be consistent and say the same generalisation about Pakistanis?



Qatar has one of the most educated work forces in the world, best education money can buy, with potential to invest in TF-X and buy jets.

Does Pakistan?
If you say Pakistani, do you mean all 225 mio people in Pakistan?
 

Huelague

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I can expect such stupid question from an illegal cowboy lover like you.

Are you going to refute the above to be untrue?

Is the above cases of Pakistan stealing and sharing tech a lie?

Or is Qatar being much more educated and financially able to contribute to the protect, more then Pakistan, an almost bankrupt project itself with terrible literacy rates.

Now you want this country to join the most strategic project in the countries history, don't cry later.
I dont know any cowboys.

I ask you a question. Do you know all Pakistanis? Where do you know, that the ones TAI want to hire, steal and share informations about TFX ? Have any Pakistani ever steal any critical informations? I dont know. You know it better I guess.

We dont talk about Pakistan to join the project. We talk about single Pakistanis, who fill the requirement to join TFX project. Which we need urgently. Its not a Ummah thing.

Btw, Pakistan is one of the famous offshore outsourcing destinations.
 
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