Casual Discussion TOGG - Turkey's Automotive Joint Venture Group (Türkiye'nin Otomobili Girişim Grubu)

T-123456

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Do we have a semiconductor producing company?
 

T-123456

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Not at the commercial scale. Though, by the time Turkish EV becomes available - they should have enough stocked to continue production unabated.
We still need one,arent there any plans?
 

Combat-Master

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We still need one,arent there any plans?

Definitely. I haven't read anything about foundries being set up for TOGG - only that TOGGs EV won't suffer from the current component shortages hitting the automotive sector.

Perhaps the government can get all the Turkish electronics giants to form a joint venture group, similar to TOGG...
 

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SiRo will establish a factory next to TOGG's production center in Gemlik. The Ministry of Industry and Technology signed the 20 GWh battery investment plan and incentive application file of SiRo, which will operate in domestic battery production at the factory.​



SiRo will establish a factory next to TOGG's production center in Gemlik. The Ministry of Industry and Technology signed the 20 GWh battery investment plan and incentive application file of SiRo, which will operate in domestic battery production at the factory.

Industry and Technology Minister Mustafa Varank received TOGG Chairman Rifat Hisarcıklıoğlu and Farasis Energy Co-Founder and CTO Keith Kepler. During the meeting, Hisarcıklıoğlu and Kepler signed the investment plan and incentive application file.

View attachment 34478



In Comparison. The largest Battery Factories in 2020.

SiRo (Silk Road) 20GW/Year

View attachment 34479
Gw / year vs gw / hour?
 

TheInsider

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Gw / year vs gw / hour?
20 GWh/year means the factory will produce 20 GWh of battery every year.
1 GWh=1,000,000 kWh
If we use a battery pack of 80kWh per car this means we can produce 250,000 cars per year.

As for the semiconductors, GaN-based semiconductors will be produced by Aselsan(for the applications like 5G internet), for silicon-based semiconductors, we will go fabless like AMD. Malaysia and TSMC will produce our designs for the products like FPGAs, industrial CPUs or modems. For the high-end semiconductors like high performance GPUs and CPUs, we will cooperate with Qualcomm. And lastly, a lot of semiconductor-based sensors will be produced by Nero Industry.


TR also plans to set up a fab for silicon chips but that will most likely be exclusive to the defense industry.
 
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Zafer

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GWh/year means the factory will produce 20 GWh of battery every year.
1 GWh=1,000,000 kWh
If we use a battery pack of 80kWh per car this means we can produce 250,000 cars per year.
That makes 400000 cars at 50kW battery capacity.
 

Ecderha

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Do we have a semiconductor producing company?
I would like to give you little info about Big Car producers.
Lets make this clear and it is very impotent I will talk about CAR chip/micro-controller.

So
Does BMW, Mercedes, VW, Ford, Peugeot etc. have semiconductor producing branch or company? No they do NOT have!

What they do is following.
1. Invite companies for presentation. Invited companies are selected one or "White listed" from above car companies .
2. Car producers "present" that They need "new module " for their new car which they will start build in next 2-3 years.
3. After 2-3 months Car producers start auction for best offer from invited and interested ones. Later best offer is selected they select 1 or 2 of them from "white listed" companies.
4. Sign contract and development is started
----------------------------------

Sign contract with selected company. Is it have semiconductor producing capability? No they do NOT.
What they do to build the "new module" (let say it is Auto Gear-shifter or Window lifter ) is following:

- Make the cover (plastic, metal, leather etc).
- Inside the cover is printed circuit board (PCB)
- On PCB are at list 2 chip/micro-controller (First to drop voltage from 12voltage to 5v. This 5voltage is need it for Second chip/micro-controller because it is work on 5voltx )
- almost 90% of time they choose the Best (mean have the features and prices against others) chip/micro-controller which is JAPAN.
others like German-> infineon or France -> SK or usa motorola etc. DO NOT have succeed to reach JAPAN products (chip/micro-controller)



So result is STILL valid in present days.
make contract with Japan -> example https://www.renesas.com/us/en/products/automotive-products and get chip/micro-controller for all module which you company will build for the new car
 

T-123456

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I would like to give you little info about Big Car producers.
Lets make this clear and it is very impotent I will talk about CAR chip/micro-controller.

So
Does BMW, Mercedes, VW, Ford, Peugeot etc. have semiconductor producing branch or company? No they do NOT have!

What they do is following.
1. Invite companies for presentation. Invited companies are selected one or "White listed" from above car companies .
2. Car producers "present" that They need "new module " for their new car which they will start build in next 2-3 years.
3. After 2-3 months Car producers start auction for best offer from invited and interested ones. Later best offer is selected they select 1 or 2 of them from "white listed" companies.
4. Sign contract and development is started
----------------------------------

Sign contract with selected company. Is it have semiconductor producing capability? No they do NOT.
What they do to build the "new module" (let say it is Auto Gear-shifter or Window lifter ) is following:

- Make the cover (plastic, metal, leather etc).
- Inside the cover is printed circuit board (PCB)
- On PCB are at list 2 chip/micro-controller (First to drop voltage from 12voltage to 5v. This 5voltage is need it for Second chip/micro-controller because it is work on 5voltx )
- almost 90% of time they choose the Best (mean have the features and prices against others) chip/micro-controller which is JAPAN.
others like German-> infineon or France -> SK or usa motorola etc. DO NOT have succeed to reach JAPAN products (chip/micro-controller)



So result is STILL valid in present days.
make contract with Japan -> example https://www.renesas.com/us/en/products/automotive-products and get chip/micro-controller for all module which you company will build for the new car
Nice presentation but did you also think of the reason why i asked this?
 

T-123456

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I hope you will tell the reason
This is the reason,


You cant produce cars without semiconductors/chips.
If we have indigenous production of ''chips'',the shortage will not effect us.
This goes for all the industries where we need chips.
 

Ecderha

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This is the reason,


You cant produce cars without semiconductors/chips.
If we have indigenous production of ''chips'',the shortage will not effect us.
This goes for all the industries where we need chips.
Thank you for explanation.
"If we have indigenous production of ''chips'',the shortage will not effect us."
On first look you are Right.

But as I said "BMW, Mercedes, VW, Ford, Peugeot" choose to use Japan ''chips" and THERE ARE the shortages there.


Also "BMW, Mercedes, VW, Ford, Peugeot" have option to use "Local/ indigenous production of ''chips".
Example BMW -> German-> Infineon. ISSUE is that local did not provide ''chips" which meet the requirements(there are side effects which I don't want to go in details)
But German-> Infineon have "chips" I mean no shortages. But this does not fix the problem.


So IF and only IF
"we have indigenous production of ''chips'' and they meet requirements and used and there does not happened Issue as above.
Main factor of shortage is that in JAPAN one of FAB producing ''chips'' got FIRE.
Second is COVID-19
 

Bogeyman 

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FC4xeMBXMAMcwU7
 

TheInsider

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SIRO factory will produce NMC 811 pouch-type cells. There will also be state-of-the-art R&D facilities inside the factory for battery research. I expect SIRO factory to switch to Silicone-Carbon anode as it is a direct upgrade from the graphite anode that is used in NMC(nickel, manganese, cobalt) batteries.
 

neosinan

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20 GWh/year means the factory will produce 20 GWh of battery every year.
1 GWh=1,000,000 kWh
If we use a battery pack of 80kWh per car this means we can produce 250,000 cars per year.

As for the semiconductors, GaN-based semiconductors will be produced by Aselsan(for the applications like 5G internet), for silicon-based semiconductors, we will go fabless like AMD. Malaysia and TSMC will produce our designs for the products like FPGAs, industrial CPUs or modems. For the high-end semiconductors like high performance GPUs and CPUs, we will cooperate with Qualcomm. And lastly, a lot of semiconductor-based sensors will be produced by Nero Industry.


TR also plans to set up a fab for silicon chips but that will most likely be exclusive to the defense industry.
You really should add Kalyon PV to this list. They produce not only wafers for their PV but they also produce Ingots as well. That's semiconductor materials by all intended purposes.

Imho, We also should try to find investors for assembly of IC like Malaysia and Even Tunisia is doing. It is true that High value is in wafer and ingot production but there is also good job creation in final assembly. This would be really good for our automotive and electronics sectors as well.
 
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