TR Navy Torpedo & Mine Programs

[Anmdt]

Maximum speed and cruising speed are different terms. If the cruising speed is 45 knots and it can still have a range of 50 km, yes, Akya may be the best torpedo. This is possible.

45+ knots is the maximum achievable speed, and 50 km is technically impossible at that speed. A torpedo does not need to travel at the maximum speed for the entire planned route, but can sprint in the final phase.

Wake homing sensors, following the zigzag pattern in the wake, manoeuvrability to follow the wake pattern, having a proper acoustic signature library and distinguishing decoys from actual targets are far more important than travelling at 45+ and covering 50 km. I think it is more important to have a longer fiber guidance, and longer range in total with the above listed features. Whomever supplying us a torpedo knows the acoustic and wake libraries embedded to that, as well as manoeuvrability envelope and decoy - detection algorithms available to the torpedo. What makes it best is here; we can update these libraries next year however we like, after some measurements.

My understanding of Torpedo technologies is primitive. Maybe @Anmdt could tell us how good Akya is comparatively with other similar systems. E.g. French F21.

A torpedo is a propeller, an electric motor, some batteries, a simple controller (even an arduino will do), a warhead of choice (anything that makes a boom and a bubble cavity), a buoyant cylindrical watertight body with a proper nose cone and 2 sets of rudders. What I have described above can even be made by a group of enthusiastic students, anything beyond that is what makes Akya valuable and the struggle of development to us. So a comparison is pointless, it falls within the whole picture of submarine operations and related capabilities.

It says "Asgari Hiz", so minimum speed is 45 kts
EDIT: It also says that System deliveries started in 2021. What does that mean exactly?

I can at least count 3 units, but there could be more. It started from 2021 with first trials, then followed by a live torpedo that also can be (and was) used as a training torpedo and finally the prototype which made the cool part in a SINKEX.

 

[Anmdt]

It was only mentioned as "intentions" in previous years (some of which go back several years, when Roketsan implied intended projects in a presentation). Now it is confirmed by Roketsan's CEO, the super-cavitation torpedo studies have begun on the experimental technology-capability gain level. Far from making a prototype, but the first step has been done for know-how of cavitation mechanism, manoeuvring of the torpedo etc.

They haven't decided on the specific design of the torpedo, as far as I know. They're investigating the best suited approach for TN's needs.

The torpedo has a cool, but hard to spell, name that fits the possible shape. Tip: It was trademarked by Roketsan a few years ago and is a reference to the name of a fish.​

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1757734202617876747

Roketsan has begun work with ITU on a super-cavitating torpedo. Roketsan has begun trials with ITU on the technology of a bubble capsule, which allows the torpedo to move inside an air bubble.

 

[boredaf]

It was only mentioned as "intentions" in previous years (some of which go back several years, when Roketsan implied intended projects in a presentation). Now it is confirmed by Roketsan's CEO, the super-cavitation torpedo studies have begun on the experimental technology-capability gain level. Far from making a prototype, but the first step has been done for know-how of cavitation mechanism, manoeuvring of the torpedo etc.

They haven't decided on the specific design of the torpedo, as far as I know. They're investigating the best suited approach for TN's needs.

The torpedo has a cool, but hard to spell, name that fits the possible shape. Tip: It was trademarked by Roketsan a few years ago and is a reference to the name of a fish.​

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1757734202617876747

Holy grail of torpedoes. If Roketsan does achieve this goal, we should just scrap any plans for an aircraft carrier and focus on submarines.

 

[Anmdt]

İTÜKAT | İstanbul Teknik Üniversitesi Kavitasyon Tüneli

itukat.itu.edu.tr

ITU-KAT now has a website.

Presentation of the institution and the projects carried out within it.

View attachment 65620
View attachment 65621

Anyway, it was also disclosed by ITU-KAT few days ago.
Strangely, there has been activity on the TORK torpedo, but again nothing from Aselsan.​

 

[Afif]

Holy grail of torpedoes. If Roketsan does achieve this goal, we should just scrap any plans for an aircraft carrier and focus on submarines.

Soviet had it in service from 1970s if I am not mistaken. I dont think it is that big of a deal.

 

[Sanchez]

Wait for Q2 2024.

Waiting for Orka...

 

[boredaf]

Soviet had it in service from 1970s if I am not mistaken. I dont think it is that big of a deal.

Personal opinion mate, I think a torpedo that can travel at hundreds of kms is a big deal. And I know Soviets had it but there hasn't really been an update on the concept since early 00s as far as I know.

 

[Anmdt]

Soviet had it in service from 1970s if I am not mistaken. I dont think it is that big of a deal.

From this perspective, there is literally no military project that will be a big deal, because most ideas or concepts were conquered in the 70s and 80s. It is a whole different area of science and still not numerically solved in a practical way.

 

[Huelague]

It was only mentioned as "intentions" in previous years (some of which go back several years, when Roketsan implied intended projects in a presentation). Now it is confirmed by Roketsan's CEO, the super-cavitation torpedo studies have begun on the experimental technology-capability gain level. Far from making a prototype, but the first step has been done for know-how of cavitation mechanism, manoeuvring of the torpedo etc.

They haven't decided on the specific design of the torpedo, as far as I know. They're investigating the best suited approach for TN's needs.

The torpedo has a cool, but hard to spell, name that fits the possible shape. Tip: It was trademarked by Roketsan a few years ago and is a reference to the name of a fish.​

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1757734202617876747

You have to mention me, if you post something like this.

 

[Afif]

From this perspective, there is literally no military project that will be a big deal, because most ideas or concepts were conquered in the 70s and 80s. It is a whole different area of science and still not numerically solved in a practical way.

Is there any reason why most of advance navies did not invest in it earlier? I thought because it was a dead end. What could next gen super cavitation Torpedo look like capability wise with today's technology?

 

[Heartbang]

Supercavitating torpedos are the loudest mfers under the sea. Any competent vessel would instantly know where it is and where it's coming from and deal with it accordingly.

 

[Chocopie]

I think all relevant navies have experimented with supercavitating torpedo technology or are still doing it with no major news.

Korean „supercavitating underwater test vehicle“ on ADD stand at MADEX 2017:

MADEX 2017: South Korea Developing a Supercavitating Torpedo

MADEX 2017: South Korea Developing a Supercavitating Torpedo

www.navyrecognition.com

High speed water tank test 2015

 

[TheInsider]

Supercavitating torpedos are the loudest mfers under the sea. Any competent vessel would instantly know where it is and where it's coming from and deal with it accordingly.

How? It is not easy to deal with super cavitating torpedoes. Their short range and the difficulty of guidance are real problems.

 

[Huelague]

I think all relevant navies have experimented with supercavitating torpedo technology or are still doing it with no major news.

Korean „supercavitating underwater test vehicle“ on ADD stand at MADEX 2017:
View attachment 65631
View attachment 65632

MADEX 2017: South Korea Developing a Supercavitating Torpedo

MADEX 2017: South Korea Developing a Supercavitating Torpedo

www.navyrecognition.com

High speed water tank test 2015

@Afif
I heard about the project many years ago. 5 years ago, maybe more.

 

[Huelague]

Supercavitating torpedos are the loudest mfers under the sea. Any competent vessel would instantly know where it is and where it's coming from and deal with it accordingly.

You can start the supercavitation in a second stage.

 

[Anmdt]

Is there any reason why most of advance navies did not invest in it earlier? I thought because it was a dead end. What could next gen super cavitation Torpedo look like capability wise with today's technology?

They invested, but it was deemed "unfeasible" within the current doctrine, as submarines were supposed to stay in the shadows as long and as far as possible. If super-cavitating torpedoes were to be used, it was only as a last resort, when a submarine was likely to be 'chased'. And since the countries that developed this system had nuclear-powered submarines that could outrun torpedoes or even most surface warships, they did not opt for it. (Maybe except for Germany, they were bored and just wanted to do something more sophisticated than DM2A4).

Better guidance, better electronics, better control units, better manoeuvrability, better rocket fuel for longer ranges, encapsulated super-cavitating torpedoes could change the way these systems were intended to be used, battery technology has also been developed that could lead to capsules with sufficient range to bring the submarine into safe range for engagements. Until recently, torpedoes used Otto fuel, then chemical batteries, and finally lithium-ion as the tech is matured. When super-cavitating torpedoes were introduced decades ago, they could operate at limited depths due to bubble collapse, and today they can be used with controlled gas injection to keep the bubble alive at more flexible depths. This is just one example. In the past they relied on cavitator for maneuvering,and not very so nowadays.
​

You can start the supercavitation in a second stage.

It has no "not super-cavitating" state, the torpedo is pushed out, swims to a safe distance, turns on the rocket engine with the gas generator and goes.​

 

[Heartbang]

Their short range and the difficulty of guidance are real problems.

Oh, there are also those.
I completely forgot those

 

[Anmdt]

They invested, but it was deemed "unfeasible" within the current doctrine, as submarines were supposed to stay in the shadows as long and as far as possible. If super-cavitating torpedoes were to be used, it was only as a last resort, when a submarine was likely to be 'chased'. And since the countries that developed this system had nuclear-powered submarines that could outrun torpedoes or even most surface warships, they did not opt for it. (Maybe except for Germany, they were bored and just wanted to do something more sophisticated than DM2A4).

Better guidance, better electronics, better control units, better manoeuvrability, better rocket fuel for longer ranges, encapsulated super-cavitating torpedoes could change the way these systems were intended to be used, battery technology has also been developed that could lead to capsules with sufficient range to bring the submarine into safe range for engagements. Until recently, torpedoes used Otto fuel, then chemical batteries, and finally lithium-ion as the tech is matured. When super-cavitating torpedoes were introduced decades ago, they could operate at limited depths due to bubble collapse, and today they can be used with controlled gas injection to keep the bubble alive at more flexible depths. This is just one example. In the past they relied on cavitator for maneuvering,and not very so nowadays.



It has no "not super-cavitating" state, the torpedo is pushed out, swims to a safe distance, turns on the rocket engine with the gas generator and goes.​

A brief and complete article on super-cavitating torpedoes;

The allure of supercavitating torpedoes

Alongside directed energy weapons and electromagnetic rail guns, supercavitating torpedoes repeatedly feature at the top of the wish list of must-have capabilities for any self-respecting navy of the future – and it is easy to see why. The allure of a rocket propelled super-weapon capable of...

www.naval-technology.com

 

[Huelague]

It has no "not super-cavitating" state, the torpedo is pushed out, swims to a safe distance, turns on the rocket engine with the gas generator and goes.

That’s what I meant with the second stage.

 

[boredaf]

Better guidance, better electronics, better control units, better manoeuvrability, better rocket fuel for longer ranges, encapsulated super-cavitating torpedoes could change the way these systems were intended to be used, battery technology has also been developed that could lead to capsules with sufficient range to bring the submarine into safe range for engagements. Until recently, torpedoes used Otto fuel, then chemical batteries, and finally lithium-ion as the tech is matured. When super-cavitating torpedoes were introduced decades ago, they could operate at limited depths due to bubble collapse, and today they can be used with controlled gas injection to keep the bubble alive at more flexible depths. This is just one example. In the past they relied on cavitator for maneuvering,and not very so nowadays.

There is one more thing to consider on top of advances in technology that might help and that is advancement in delivery options. Even if its range cannot be increased, an underwater or semi-submersible drone (or a bunch of them) can get in close enough to make great use of supercavitation torpedoes.