India Trump Offers F-35 Jets to India in Push for More Defense Deals

[Gessler]

(Bloomberg) -- President Donald Trump said the US would offer the F-35 warplane to India as part of a bigger commitment to deepen defense ties.

The US will increase sales of military hardware to India by “many billions of dollars,” Trump said at a joint White House press conference alongside Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi on Thursday evening. “We’re also paving the way to ultimately provide India with the F-35 stealth fighters,” the president said.

Any such move would be a long way off and could face serious obstacles given that India already has deep defense ties with Russia, and the US has been loathe to sell the F-35 to countries where its technology might be stolen by adversaries.

Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi and US President Donald Trump jointly address a press conference following the bilateral meeting​

A sale would also be complicated by India’s decision in 2018 to buy Russia’s S400 missile defense system. The US had previously scrapped F-35 co-production with Turkey after that country decided to buy the S400 over fears Russia would learn too much about the plane’s technology. Still, it amounts to the latest US salvo to weaken the country’s close military ties with Russia. Successive American presidents including Trump in his first term promised more weapons contracts.

“In our meeting today, the prime minister and I reaffirmed that strong cooperation among the United States, India, Australia and Japan, and it’s crucial really, to maintaining peace and prosperity tranquility, even, in the Indo Pacific,” Trump said.

His announcement also suggests continued confidence in the costliest American weapons system, manufactured by Lockheed Martin Corp., which has been derided by Elon Musk, the world’s richest person and a close Trump adviser. “Some idiots are still building manned fighter jets like the F-35” in an age of drones, he said.

USAF F-35A passes in front of a Russian Su-57 fifth-generation fighter on the tarmac at Aero India 2025. Pic credit: Aatish Pillai​

Then-Air Force Secretary Frank Kendall defended the aircraft. “The F-35 isn’t going away” as it’s “a state of the art system that’s continuously being upgraded,” Kendall said during an Air Force Association webcast. “There’s a reason so many countries are buying the F-35,” he said of its 19 international customers. “There is no alternative to that in the near term. We should continue to buy it.”

The Modi government has intensified defense ties with the US as it proceeds with a 10-year, $250 billion military modernization. Last year, the US approved the sale of nearly $4 billion in attack drones, Hellfire missiles and laser-guided bombs to India, as the Biden administration looks to chip away at the country’s long-time defense ties with Russia.

MSN

Well, there it is. The F-35 offer is finally, officially on the table.

@Nilgiri @TR_123456

 

[Zapper]

Well, there it is. The F-35 offer is finally, officially on the table.

along with the death of AMCA and future of Indian aviation

 

[IC3M@N FX]

So much for the F-35 and S-400 being incompatible with each other and the danger of Russian espionage (backdoors) to obtain the radar signature.

 

[hugh]

along with the death of AMCA and future of Indian aviation

Probably. All the advanced radars, missiles, eo systems, avionics, other subsystems of yours and their supply chain will become useless and won't be maintained as you won't be able integrate them into F35.

Amca as a medium-weight fighter would be no match for F-35 and the generals of your air force would choose the latter, 9 out of 10 times, thus, spelling the demise of AMCA program.

 

[blackjack]

No Turkey we cant sell you the F-35 you have the S-400.
India has S-400 and they might get F-35s.
Damn. How do you guys feel being the 3rd most hated country by the west behind russia and china? It's not even a joke at this point.

 

[hugh]

No Turkey we cant sell you the F-35 you have the S-400.
India has S-400 and they might get F-35s.

And Trump is the one who kicked us out of the F35 programme. I wish a journalist asked this question to him.

If he is so liberal with F35 because of his main focus on China, he could offer the jet to us as well. But even in that case we should stay away from it. KAAN is in further along in its development than AMCA but we are still not invulnerable. It could still impede the development of KAAN.

 

[blackjack]

Actual reasons Turkiye got declined.
1. Country acts way too independent to be a vassal state unlike its western allies.
2. Learned from this forum that they are growing and modernizing their military in all fields and finding ways to improve their economy.

 

[Gessler]

along with the death of AMCA and future of Indian aviation

Probably. All the advanced radars, missiles, eo systems, avionics, other subsystems of yours and their supply chain will become useless and won't be maintained as you won't be able integrate them into F35.

Amca as a medium-weight fighter would be no match for F-35 and the generals of your air force would choose the latter, 9 out of 10 times, thus, spelling the demise of AMCA program.

AMCA will not be effected.

But MRFA competition will be. It's highly likely that we'll cancel it going forward.

 

[hugh]

AMCA will not be effected.

What makes you think that?

 

[kakaliam2]

What makes you think that?

F-35 supply chains are well established. The program isn't that into infancy like Su-30 Or in Mid Life for Indian Companies to get into that ecosystem. IAF for all flaws extensively modified jets. It's unlikely that they would be willing to invest in 100s of F-35 given that there is zero chance of India able to get it's hand on internals of F-35.

If there is any, it would atmost be limited to 100 @ 5-6 squadrons before our finance gets broken into oblivion. Our Airforce requirement is 45 squadrons. There are too many squadrons need to be filled in and F-35 is too costly to own and maintain. So AMCA will have it's share as many squadrons of Mirages, Jaguars, Mig-29 will be retired around 2035 onwards the same time AMCA is projected to operationalize.

 

[Gessler]

What makes you think that?

What @kakaliam2 said mostly.

Also, AMCA is being pursued for strategic reasons - inculcating a domestic industry. Additionally, it'll be needed for the nuclear delivery role, as it's unlikely F-35 will be allowed to do that in IAF.

F-35, if it does end up coming, will be a stop-gap as IAF is apprehensive of ceding the look-first, shoot-first advantage to PLAAF for the next 15 years.

EDIT: It might have a longer, more relevant role to play in the Navy though.

 

[IC3M@N FX]

Actual reasons Turkiye got declined.
1. Country acts way too independent to be a vassal state unlike its western allies.
2. Learned from this forum that they are growing and modernizing their military in all fields and finding ways to improve their economy.

We all know that it was for geopolitical reasons from the Americans' point of view, but how brazenly they argued that it would pose a security risk blah blah blah.

How naïve they are, they expect Indians to voluntarily join the Western entity.
Like the Turks, the Indians want to sit between two stools and keep one foot in each of the various organizations.

 

[hugh]

F-35 supply chains are well established. The program isn't that into infancy like Su-30 Or in Mid Life for Indian Companies to get into that ecosystem. IAF for all flaws extensively modified jets. It's unlikely that they would be willing to invest in 100s of F-35 given that there is zero chance of India able to get it's hand on internals of F-35.

If there is any, it would atmost be limited to 100 @ 5-6 squadrons before our finance gets broken into oblivion. Our Airforce requirement is 45 squadrons. There are too many squadrons need to be filled in and F-35 is too costly to own and maintain. So AMCA will have it's share as many squadrons of Mirages, Jaguars, Mig-29 will be retired around 2035 onwards the same time AMCA is projected to operationalize.

What @kakaliam2 said mostly.

Also, AMCA is being pursued for strategic reasons - inculcating a domestic industry. Additionally, it'll be needed for the nuclear delivery role, as it's unlikely F-35 will be allowed to do that in IAF.

F-35, if it does end up coming, will be a stop-gap as IAF is apprehensive of ceding the look-first, shoot-first advantage to PLAAF for the next 15 years.

EDIT: It might have a longer, more relevant role to play in the Navy though.

I hear you, but it could play out otherwise than your rational conclusion.

I try to look at it from another perspective. The program managers of AMCA will get a relief once you get F35s. The engineers will say that they need more time as they will always want to optimize their design before pushing it out to the world. And that could be detrimental to the program. You see, a fifth-gen fighter development will have to survive multiple different administrations as India is a democracy. Certain milestones will have to be cleared and public awareness should be built. Otherwise, the next administration could axe the program citing budget constraints and the availability of the "best fighter"(F35) to India. The probability of this event will increase if AMCA faces significant delays.

In my opinion, the sense of urgency is the biggest coefficient of the equation and buying of the F35 could be the a significant impediment for the success of the program.

 

[TR_123456]

(Bloomberg) -- President Donald Trump said the US would offer the F-35 warplane to India as part of a bigger commitment to deepen defense ties.

The US will increase sales of military hardware to India by “many billions of dollars,” Trump said at a joint White House press conference alongside Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi on Thursday evening. “We’re also paving the way to ultimately provide India with the F-35 stealth fighters,” the president said.

Any such move would be a long way off and could face serious obstacles given that India already has deep defense ties with Russia, and the US has been loathe to sell the F-35 to countries where its technology might be stolen by adversaries.

Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi and US President Donald Trump jointly address a press conference following the bilateral meeting​

A sale would also be complicated by India’s decision in 2018 to buy Russia’s S400 missile defense system. The US had previously scrapped F-35 co-production with Turkey after that country decided to buy the S400 over fears Russia would learn too much about the plane’s technology. Still, it amounts to the latest US salvo to weaken the country’s close military ties with Russia. Successive American presidents including Trump in his first term promised more weapons contracts.

“In our meeting today, the prime minister and I reaffirmed that strong cooperation among the United States, India, Australia and Japan, and it’s crucial really, to maintaining peace and prosperity tranquility, even, in the Indo Pacific,” Trump said.

His announcement also suggests continued confidence in the costliest American weapons system, manufactured by Lockheed Martin Corp., which has been derided by Elon Musk, the world’s richest person and a close Trump adviser. “Some idiots are still building manned fighter jets like the F-35” in an age of drones, he said.

View attachment 73545
USAF F-35A passes in front of a Russian Su-57 fifth-generation fighter on the tarmac at Aero India 2025. Pic credit: Aatish Pillai​

Then-Air Force Secretary Frank Kendall defended the aircraft. “The F-35 isn’t going away” as it’s “a state of the art system that’s continuously being upgraded,” Kendall said during an Air Force Association webcast. “There’s a reason so many countries are buying the F-35,” he said of its 19 international customers. “There is no alternative to that in the near term. We should continue to buy it.”

The Modi government has intensified defense ties with the US as it proceeds with a 10-year, $250 billion military modernization. Last year, the US approved the sale of nearly $4 billion in attack drones, Hellfire missiles and laser-guided bombs to India, as the Biden administration looks to chip away at the country’s long-time defense ties with Russia.

MSN

Well, there it is. The F-35 offer is finally, officially on the table.

@Nilgiri @TR_123456

Get at least 100,depending on involvement(F-35 hub maybe) you could go for more in the future.

 

[Kitra]

No Turkey we cant sell you the F-35 you have the S-400.
India has S-400 and they might get F-35s.
Damn. How do you guys feel being the 3rd most hated country by the west behind russia and china? It's not even a joke at this point.

You are bit wrong on your ordering. The west hates turkey far more than Russia and China. Among the population, you could hardly hear anything bad about russians or Chinese but you have plenty of propaganda on the news now mainly because it is more urgent rigth now.

However, the hate against turkey is very deep rooted. even Iceland far away from anything turkish have the fear that the turks are coming to get them, originated from a dutch captain raided iceland 400 years ago which they blame turkey for. Western countries are extremely racist against anything muslim power.

 

[IC3M@N FX]

You are bit wrong on your ordering. The west hates turkey far more than Russia and China. Among the population, you could hardly hear anything bad about russians or Chinese but you have plenty of propaganda on the news now mainly because it is more urgent rigth now.

However, the hate against turkey is very deep rooted. even Iceland far away from anything turkish have the fear that the turks are coming to get them, originated from a dutch captain raided iceland 400 years ago which they blame turkey for. Western countries are extremely racist against anything muslim power.

No it's just more subtle if you absolutely hated Turkey they wouldn't even be in NATO and relationship with Europe.
Turkey is geostrategically and geographically a key country a lot goes through the country as transit and it has access to the Caucasus, Middle East and Far East, Africa the country itself is like a stationary aircraft carrier.
This is something that not every country in the world has.
Everyone wants influence and a piece of the pie. The fact that Turkey has been emancipating itself for 10 years is simply not in the plans of many states because they are aware that Turkey is really using its position politically and economically, which was either stopped by various coups decades ago or the governments before that were not designed for confrontation. They simply don't want to share the cake, the country could have been called Neo-Ottoman or Byzantium with the same result that they want to slow it down.

India as a country has similar prerequisites, which is why it is being tugged at with offers.
India is careful not to get involved in these intrigues, they know that if they choose one side or the other they would find themselves in the same position as Turkey. They would try to keep it down and use it as a proxy.
Turkey has slowly freed itself from this and deals with everyone both politically and economically.

 

[dronie]

Probably. All the advanced radars, missiles, eo systems, avionics, other subsystems of yours and their supply chain will become useless and won't be maintained as you won't be able integrate them into F35.

Amca as a medium-weight fighter would be no match for F-35 and the generals of your air force would choose the latter, 9 out of 10 times, thus, spelling the demise of AMCA program.

Well in all case india ain't Turkey with having nuclear armed forces and a super power who is producing 5th gen fighters like pancakes along with flying a 6th gen.Turkey can take all the time for kaan India can't .one thing you guys always forget is that we never quit in any program we do it however long it takes.

 

[Nilgiri]

Well, there it is. The F-35 offer is finally, officially on the table.

Its a change from last Trump admin which pretty much gave a hard no on it.

But we should wait and see just how serious an offer it is in the end.

So far its nominal one as the difficult meatier parts regarding integration, India's architecture and many manner of details and liabilities have to be worked out between pentagon and south block. There is lot of fine print and compromises contained with them that will have to be squared away and acceptable to both sides.

It is very much different to the predator drones, apaches and poseidon MMA (last of which India looking to buy 6 more now).

 

[Holikarbon]

Is India willing to fund both the F-35 program and the AMCA program?

Does it have the financial means to continue these two programs?

 

[hugh]

Well in all case india ain't Turkey with having nuclear armed forces and a super power who is producing 5th gen fighters like pancakes along with flying a 6th gen.Turkey can take all the time for kaan India can't .one thing you guys always forget is that we never quit in any program we do it however long it takes.

I won't go into our issues in the region and of our needs to not derail the thread. But the idea of countering China's air force with imported, downgraded jets seems erroneous to me. You have to have your own custom hardware running your custom software to find custom solutions against different threat scenarios.

one thing you guys always forget is that we never quit in any program we do it however long it takes.

This is a losing proposition. We don't have an adversary as powerful as China but regardless, we don't casually take our time as if we had the next two decades to develop the aircraft. The programs have, mostly, transparent schedules and not making it on time will have consequences. India, as I see it, thinks it's too big to fail and feels too secure due to its nukes. That mindset has to change if your defense programs to conclude successfully in a timely manner.