Air-Force Turkey asks U.S. to buy 40 F-16 jets to upgrade Air Force

[Cabatli_TR]

Mr Erdoğan: "We paid 1 billion 400 million dollars for F-35s, but F-35s were not given to us. Now, some new offers are coming, let's see what happens, how accurate it is."

 

[Huelague]

Remember WWI and WWII?

In international relations, image, reputation matters. Russia is as much a white, christian nation as Germany, yet they are hated by the western bloc.

Remove these ideas from your head. You're talking like an SJW. Even supposedly "racist" Third Reich allied itself with non-white, non-christian Japan. It did not matter.

Image matters.

We have the image of a third-world dictatorship with a failing economy.

Dont understimate racism/nationalism. Look at EU right now. Rising of right parties. We talk about 1000 yearly ideaology. Ethniticy and religious counts. But one thing counts more. Money/interests.

 

[Ryder]

Remember WWI and WWII?

In international relations, image, reputation matters. Russia is as much a white, christian nation as Germany, yet they are hated by the western bloc.

Remove these ideas from your head. You're talking like an SJW. Even supposedly "racist" Third Reich allied itself with non-white, non-christian Japan. It did not matter.

Image matters.

We have the image of a third-world dictatorship with a failing economy.

Bro you are naive it doesnt matter if Europeans butcher each other they will always prefer a Russian over a Turk anyday.

Who said im a sjw? Geopolitics is influenced by wide range of factors this also includes race.

Voltaire the enlightenment thinker wanted Turks wiped out while Mark Twain an American wanted the Russians to wipe us out.

Thats thing you need to understand you will never be part of them or their civilisation they see us as threats no matter what.

 

[Lool]

Exactly, any country other than 3 Rd world shit holes does not care Turkey anymore. We used to be a strong partner of NATO and many countries get approval from us while they sell weapons to Greece. Now we are not even able to buy weapons from them!!
Akp morons can think otherwise but this is the reality. Akp in the last 10 years is the biggest luck that Greeks have . We would dominate the whole region with our defense industry and political support of Israel and usa republicans.but we are in the losing sides everywhere including our economy!!

Wow
I didnt wanna get involved tbh in this conversation
But just..... wooow
Mate what sort of drugs are you on?
Have you forgotten that the AKP was the most pro-US government in Turkish history from 2004 till 2013? Did you know what the US media was saying about the AKP then? They are democratic saviours, they are moderate beautiful ppl, a new golden era in Turkey..... etc! What did Turkey get in return for sucking up to them? PKK in our borders, Greece acting like ass etc.....
It is only when Erdo and the AKP decided to take a stance against the PKK and Greece, and increase Turkish influence worldwide that the US got alarmed
That is why Erdo said that it is time to take matters into our own hands and deviated from US's slave-like orders when turkish operations began in Syria! What happened after that? The turks are monsters, barbarians, devils, and merciless killers etc....
You do need to understand that a strong Turkey will never mix with good relations with Israel and USA. Like pls get it already
What the US wants is a dependent turkish country on US weapons sales. This will make Turkey's strength adjustable by the US! Thus, they can ensure the power balance between Greece and Turkey never breaks and both are Equally strong so that both can be wary of each other and just keep buying weapons from US. This translates to more bucks in US pockets and yet (from the shadows) controls both countries as they please; in addition, the USA will have two countries and its ppl as canoon fodder against Russia or in another words, you guys are disposable front line soldiers. Above all of that, Israel can still enjoy their status as the strongest and keep pitting Turkey against Greece under the guise of NEUTRALITY

The moment Turkey became strong, this equation broke. The moment Turkey became strong, Erdo became able to maneuver more in politics; he was able to increase Turkey's influence, join wars and aid allies to aid Turkish policies! What happened after that? The western media started saying... turks are devils! Etc....

When Erdo downed the Russian jet, did the lovely EU or the West aid Turkey? None, all were scared of MIGHTY RUSSIA and started criticising Turkey instead? And this was a period when Erdo's relation with the West wasnt bad at all; especially with the US. Are these the amazing "Relationships" that will help Turkey dominate the region? If so, these relationships are worth no more than garbage! FFS grow up already

When Turkish soldiers died by the hands of the PKK, did the West cry? Hell no, they were probably laughing at you guys behind closed doors and yet they weep fake tears when PKK members die! This is the West my friend; pure hypocritical bitches

Have you ever read Israeli websites? They are like.... Turkish military tech is a threat! Israel asks US to halt Turkish military projects, No nuclear for Turkey, Israel worried about Turkey becoming a drone magnate etc....
Guys pls wake up
Israel never for once effectively aided a country to prosperity.
They were, are, and will only work for their sakes. Their policy is supremacy in the Med East and this cant be done with a super strong Turkey in the fray

And lovely genius, The EU and the West werent asking for your permission during weapons sale with Greece. They were trying to sell as much as possible while at the same time trying to not break the status quo! It is kind of like a litmus test, they will keep selling weapons until Turkey gets alarmed and complain, which will then they will stop for a year or 2 and then repeat the process again

Thank God Turkey isnt buying weapons from them
The path of nationalisation and domestication is the true path for Turkey
The path of obtaining Nuclear deterrent and technology, even if means kissing the Russian ass for some years, is the right path
Anyone who deviates away from that is a true traitor tbh

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1459898078580953089

 

[Anastasius]

It is only when Erdo and the AKP decided to take a stance against the PKK and Greece, and increase Turkish influence worldwide that the US got alarmed

That's...not what happened. You've got cause and effect somewhat backwards. The US didn't really care about Turkey rising, what the US cared about was Turkey rising while aligning itself in a possibly hostile manner to the US. It's kind of difficult to argue that the US' increasing support towards the PKK isn't because Turkey started drifting away somewhat. You will notice that other countries, like South Korea, don't get the same treatment that Turkey does despite making their army stronger and stronger. Greece is able to make their case to the US that Turkey is untrustworthy because Erdogan and the AKP screwed everything.

And I am not arguing that Turkey isn't getting screwed over now. I am arguing that saying it is happening out of nowhere because dat rayciss Yurop dont want no Turk getting uppity is a huge oversimplification.

 

[Zafer]

Remember the biggest factor is race and ethnicity.

Why should the USA sanction a Western, European, White and Christian nation?

80 million Americans have German descent.

 

[Zafer]

Pro

Yet they fought against Germany twice, invaded the country and still have troops there.

Probably decisions were made by different powerhouses living in the same country.

 

[Ryder]

How did they accept Turkey into NATO in 1950ies in your opinion then? How did we get into white christian club?

How did we get thousands of tanks for free? How did we get an F16 production line built in Turkey?

Screw all of that. How did they allow us to produce F35 parts? Central fuselage! Boy they must really want to wipe us out. We're getting sanctioned to death like Iran here.

With strings attached and how the greatest threat to them was communism.

Us Turks at the time were not powerful but remember our alliance with nato was done out of conveince.

We pariticpate in the F35 only to have our planes and money taken away just because Turkey drifted off the line.

 

[Manomed]

With strings attached and how the greatest threat to them was communism.

Us Turks at the time were not powerful but remember our alliance with nato was done out of conveince.

We pariticpate in the F35 only to have our planes and money taken away just because Turkey drifted off the line.

Now we got both russian and american strings on our country

 

[Mard]

Best explanation I've heard in a while

This has to do with the fact the US doesn't want to supply Turkey with Defense systems, and Erdogan whenever asked if the US will continue with the F-16 project he says "I don't know."

In the end the US supplies PKK-affilated groups with Weapons day and night, and still has airbases in Turkey

 

[Yasar_TR]

Dear members ! Please stay on topic. This thread is for :

Turkey asks U.S. to buy 40 F-16 jets to upgrade Air Force​

Please stay on it. All non topic posts will be erased!
There is a thread for Turkish politics. Put across your views there please.

 

[Bogeyman]

Minister of National Defense Akar announced that a military delegation went to the USA to discuss some issues, including the procurement of F-16s and the modernization of some of the existing F-16 combatfighters.

Bakan Akar: F-16 tedariki ve modernizasyonu dahil bazı konuları görüşmek üzere askeri bir heyet ABD'ye gitti

Milli Savunma Bakanı Akar, F-16 tedariki ve mevcut F-16 savaş uçaklarının bir kısmının modernize edilmesi dahil bazı konuları görüşmek üzere askeri bir heyetin ABD'ye gittiğini açıkladı. - Anadolu Ajansı

www.aa.com.tr

 

[Stuka]

Important.

COVID supply chain woes add yearlong delay to first F-16 rollout at new facility​

The first F-16 produced in Greenville, S.C., won't be ready to begin flying until late 2022, said Greg Ulmer, Lockheed's vice president of aeronautics.​

DUBAI: The first F-16 built at Lockheed Martin’s new production facility in Greenville, S.C., will roll off the assembly a year later than expected due to an international supplier’s ongoing troubles in the wake of the coronavirus pandemic, a top Lockheed executive said Monday.
“With COVID and other issues associated with the supply base impacted by COVID, that ramp is taking longer than we envisioned it would,” Greg Ulmer, Lockheed Martin’s vice president for aeronautics, told Breaking News in a Nov. 15 interview at the Dubai Airshow.

“So we’re working [on] that, with the first airplane coming off the line in Greenville the fourth quarter of next year,” he said. “We’re about 12 months off our plan.”

The F-16 still remains a popular fighter aircraft choice for foreign militaries, with sales on the books for Bahrain, Slovakia, Morocco, Bulgaria and Taiwan. Earlier this year, the US Air Force awarded Lockheed a $14 billion contract for 128 F-16 Block 70/72 jets on behalf of those five countries, with production originally anticipated to run through 2026.

COVID supply chain woes add yearlong delay to first F-16 rollout at new facility - Breaking Defense

The first F-16 produced in Greenville, S.C., won't be ready to begin flying until late 2022, said Greg Ulmer, Lockheed's vice president of aeronautics.

breakingdefense.com

> The F16 Production line is problematic as we have talked about it before.

 

[Kartal1]

Important.

COVID supply chain woes add yearlong delay to first F-16 rollout at new facility​

The first F-16 produced in Greenville, S.C., won't be ready to begin flying until late 2022, said Greg Ulmer, Lockheed's vice president of aeronautics.​

View attachment 35842

DUBAI: The first F-16 built at Lockheed Martin’s new production facility in Greenville, S.C., will roll off the assembly a year later than expected due to an international supplier’s ongoing troubles in the wake of the coronavirus pandemic, a top Lockheed executive said Monday.
“With COVID and other issues associated with the supply base impacted by COVID, that ramp is taking longer than we envisioned it would,” Greg Ulmer, Lockheed Martin’s vice president for aeronautics, told Breaking News in a Nov. 15 interview at the Dubai Airshow.

“So we’re working [on] that, with the first airplane coming off the line in Greenville the fourth quarter of next year,” he said. “We’re about 12 months off our plan.”

The F-16 still remains a popular fighter aircraft choice for foreign militaries, with sales on the books for Bahrain, Slovakia, Morocco, Bulgaria and Taiwan. Earlier this year, the US Air Force awarded Lockheed a $14 billion contract for 128 F-16 Block 70/72 jets on behalf of those five countries, with production originally anticipated to run through 2026.

COVID supply chain woes add yearlong delay to first F-16 rollout at new facility - Breaking Defense

The first F-16 produced in Greenville, S.C., won't be ready to begin flying until late 2022, said Greg Ulmer, Lockheed's vice president of aeronautics.

breakingdefense.com

> The F16 Production line is problematic as we have talked about it before.

With this timeline if there will be jet acquisition I think the British Eurofighters will come to the agenda again.

 

[Stuka]

With this timeline if there will be jet acquisition I think the British Eurofighters will come to the agenda again.

The German Bundestag (Parliament) about Eurofighter Tranche 1:

"The first series of the aircraft only masters aerial combat and is therefore primarily used to fill the alarm groups in Germany and the Baltic States ("Reinforced Air Policing Baltic States"). However, this model is not being further developed by the Air Force or by industry. It is out of date and in need of repair, spare parts are becoming scarce because no manufacturer produces the components anymore. Ready-to-use aircraft have to serve as spare parts donors so that the other jets can continue to operate."

Additionally:
If an upgrade occurs, how long will that take ? How much will it cost ? Will they sell spare parts ?

 

[Yasar_TR]

The German Bundestag (Parliament) about Eurofighter Tranche 1:

"The first series of the aircraft only masters aerial combat and is therefore primarily used to fill the alarm groups in Germany and the Baltic States ("Reinforced Air Policing Baltic States"). However, this model is not being further developed by the Air Force or by industry. It is out of date and in need of repair, spare parts are becoming scarce because no manufacturer produces the components anymore. Ready-to-use aircraft have to serve as spare parts donors so that the other jets can continue to operate."

Additionally:
If an upgrade occurs, how long will that take ? How much will it cost ? Will they sell spare parts ?

According to the latest estimates it will cost approximately 65million pounds per unit to upgrade tranche 1 & 2 to tranche 4 level. Plane’s initial value has to be added to this too.

 

[Stuka]

According to the latest estimates it will cost approximately 65million pounds per unit to upgrade tranche 1 & 2 to tranche 4 level. Plane’s initial value has to be added to this too.

The Upgrade (87 Million USD) is more Expensive than a brand new F35 5th Gen Fighter Jet.

For 30 EF2000 T1 that would be around 2.6 Billion USD just for the Upgrades.

 

[Yasar_TR]

The Upgrade (87 Million USD) is more Expensive than a brand new F35 5th Gen Fighter Jet.

For 30 EF2000 T1 that would be around 2.6 Billion USD just for the Upgrades.

According to the “armed forces of UK 2007-2008” site , the initial cost of the typhoon program was 16.7 billion pounds. (160 planes in total) Making it the highest ever for a military program In UK. That is 110 million pounds per plane.
Qatar bought 24 of these for a contract of 6 billion pounds.
Kuwait signed a deal with Leonardo for 9 billion dollars for 28 planes.
Yet Oman bought from UK , 24 typhoons for 2.24 billion pounds.
The ancillaries, weapons, and training etc purchased makes a big difference. But the different amounts for different countries are mind boggling.
Upgrading these planes would cost 64.8 million pounds each to the UK government.
As you have pointed out that is an outrageously high amount of money to pay. But the resultant plane would be a near 5th gen plane. Remember Germans declined to buy F35. But decided to purchase 2 squadrons of tranche 4 .

 

[Stuka]

According to the “armed forces of UK 2007-2008” site , the initial cost of the typhoon program was 16.7 billion pounds. (160 planes in total) Making it the highest ever for a military program In UK. That is 110 million pounds per plane.
Qatar bought 24 of these for a contract of 6 billion pounds.
Kuwait signed a deal wit Leonardo for 9 billion dollars for 28 planes.
Yet Oman bought from UK , 24 typhoons for 2.24 billion pounds.
The ancillaries, weapons, and training etc purchased makes a big difference. But the difference amounts for different countries are mind boggling.
Upgrading these planes would cost 64.8 million pounds each to the UK government.
As you have pointed out that is an outrageously high amount of money to pay. But the resultant plane would be a near 5th gen plane. Remember Germans declined to buy F35. But decided to purchase 2 squadrons of tranche 4 .

View attachment 35888

The Date of the Publishing of the Information should also be added. 2008 and 2021 makes quite the difference in terms of Inflation.

- 65M GBP (87M USD) in 2008 equals 89M GBP (120M USD) in 2020, and with that its easy to understand why Germany decided to go with brand new EF2000s or why Britain is retiring T1 EF2000s.

- Additional Costs of preparing the Turkish Air forces for the EF2000 need to be thought of as well. Air bases and such.

- The EJ200 is a complex engine and you need the approval of many members.

- The Aircraft isn't free either. 2nd hand will also be expensive.

- According to the UK Government flying hours Costs 20k GBP in 2015 which equals 31k USD/hour in 2020.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/576244/20161122-Flying_hours_and_maintenance_costs_for_the_Typhoon_and_Tornado_fleets.pdf

About the Germans I assume the Decision to reject acquiring was Political rather than Technical. Some General also had to Step Down because he pushed the Purchase against the will of the Government.

 

[Huelague]

You know the phrase wild goose chase? Islam is actively conquering Europe. Parts of Paris looks like Somalia. Obviously there's going to be a reaction to that. It's their internal matter. Reality looks like this:

View attachment 35620
They don't care.

It's all about interests and building trust.
Good relationships are difficult to build yet, easy to destroy. Same with personal relationships. You can become bitter enemies with your lifelong friend over one wrong look at his wife.

Jews play this game very well. We are terrible at it. Beyond terrible with the erdog. administration.

All the immigrants will be assimilated. Look at the the Turks in Germany. They try to be more German then Germans . Of course, they hate Turkey.
The picture show a man who hates Jews and tried to find allies.